Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (new From Software game)

[Lutte]

I wouldn't say levels are boring, they are good but From sure didn't outdo themselves. Stuff like Mt. Kongo or Bodhisattva Valley - visually awesome but not the pinnacle of complexity. Remind me more of the Dragon Aerie than anything else. Another Blighttown or Undead Burg they are not. Plus an idol every few steps, as if we can't have a real chad game in 2019 anymore... A bit disappointing.

The game is not ugly, but it's never really as awe inspiring as the height of soulsborne, nor is it as creepy. It's just not particularly evocative atmosphere wise for me. I felt awe when I saw locations like Anor Londo or Drangleic Castle. Catacombs and their darkness and ease of falling induced stress. Places like Irithyll Dungeon or Yahar'Gul achieve a height of creepiness that Ashina's dungeon or depths really can't. And it's not like Sekiro wasn't trying, despite its Sengoku Japan setting, considering the presence of those undead looking things you need to kill twice, people who attack you with their centipedes, those things that attack you from the walls in the cavern inhabited by the giant serpent, the insanity of the people in Mibu village etc. It's just pretty lame and the mechanics of the game encouraging you to feel safe at all time and jumping from roof to roof and branches doesn't help. The constant use of soundtrack during exploration despite the soundtrack being pretty.. average? wasn't particularly bright either for atmosphere.

Overall, it's the first From software game that thoroughly failed to attract my attention during exploration, for the whole duration of the game.

 

[cvv]

Plus an idol every few steps, as if we can't have a real chad game in 2019 anymore

If there wasnt an Idol up every bosses arse I probably would have quit already.

I'm not even talking about stuff like an idol right next to the Demon, that doesn't bother me too much. I hate pointless 5 minutes runs to bosses too. But the sheer number...why for example sticking to the retarded DS3 trend of leaving a bonfire after every boss encounter? It's fucking dumb and it cheapens exploration, diminishes tension and ruins the feeling that safe harbors are rare.

 

[cvv]

Also thinking back to the game the side quests were terrible. Simple, straightforward and unrewarding. What a missed opportunity to have a questline for, say, Jinza or Kotaro where you first help them and then you can summon them or some such. But instead you get some fruit and a res statue. Lame.

 

[Cromwell]

I'm not even talking about stuff like an idol right next to the Demon, that doesn't bother me too much. I hate pointless 5 minutes runs to bosses too. But the sheer number...why for example sticking to the retarded DS3 trend of leaving a bonfire after every boss encounter? It's fucking dumb and it cheapens exploration, diminishes tension and ruins the feeling that safe harbors are rare.

especially since they set one before every boss the one after is just not needed. Also, since the normal mobs (with a few exceptions) are very easy compared to mini and normal bosses most idols are not needed. They are nice if you want to farm one particular area of 1-2 rooms but then what would you actually have to farm for.

Also thinking back to the game the side quests were terrible. Simple, straightforward and unrewarding. What a missed opportunity to have a questline for, say, Jinza or Kotaro where you first help them and then you can summon them or some such. But instead you get some fruit and a res statue. Lame.

It feels a bit like they have things int he game that are just there because thats what from did for he last few games, like quests that arent very rewarding this time around, skilltrees that arent very useful but at least its a hint of rpg, exhausting bossfights because thats expected and a camera that kills you more often than the bosses themselves.

 

[Jaedar]

Plus an idol every few steps, as if we can't have a real chad game in 2019 anymore

If there wasnt an Idol up every bosses arse I probably would have quit already.

I'm not even talking about stuff like an idol right next to the Demon, that doesn't bother me too much. I hate pointless 5 minutes runs to bosses too. But the sheer number...why for example sticking to the retarded DS3 trend of leaving a bonfire after every boss encounter? It's fucking dumb and it cheapens exploration, diminishes tension and ruins the feeling that safe harbors are rare.

I do like having idols close to the bosses (except there not really being one that close to the top of the castle, despite at least two bosses being there), but their frequency during exploration is too high. Feels like you rarely go 5 minutes before seeing the next one.

Overall, it's the first From software game that thoroughly failed to attract my attention during exploration, for the whole duration of the game.

I think a large part of the problem is there's just very little loot the game can hand out for exploring. Soulsborne had weapons, armor, lore, money, crafting materials, and many different consumables. Sekiro has money and... consumables, but tbh finding ceramic shards and piles of ash doesn't really feel rewarding, and to me, neither did the buff sugars or mibu balloons. Cash is nice ofc, but there's not enough crafting materials to avoid farming either way, so what does it really matter if you find half or all of it, when the difference in required farming time is so small?

 

[Lutte]

Plus an idol every few steps, as if we can't have a real chad game in 2019 anymore

If there wasnt an Idol up every bosses arse I probably would have quit already.

I'm not even talking about stuff like an idol right next to the Demon, that doesn't bother me too much. I hate pointless 5 minutes runs to bosses too. But the sheer number...why for example sticking to the retarded DS3 trend of leaving a bonfire after every boss encounter? It's fucking dumb and it cheapens exploration, diminishes tension and ruins the feeling that safe harbors are rare.

At first I didn't think too much of it because of the amount of new mini boss encounters filled with adds in the early game areas, but it becomes glaringly obvious by the time you reach fountainhead that they did go overboard with idols. Fountainhead has so, so, so many idols in close proximity without any justification for them it's insane. It was a missed opportunity to wear down the player a little, that area doesn't have a huge concentration of mini boss and its area boss is not something anyone should die from. Considering how fast you travel throughout the map when you know the layout.. it's just excessive. Ashina Castle, Senpou and Sunken Valley also suffer from this to an extent, but fountainhead is like.. Great Sakura, Palace Grounds, Feeding Grounds, Near Pot Noble and Sanctuary are pretty much the same location. The list of idols makes Fountainhead look more than it is.

 

[Cromwell]

except there not really being one that close to the top of the castle, despite at least two bosses being there

is the dojo not reactivatable?

 

[cvv]

All the idols also make most of the shortcuts completely pointless (the one connecting temple Main Hall with the Inner Sanctum, or the Dilapidated Temple with the Kuro's Room and a few others).

 

[Jaedar]

All the idols also make most of the shortcuts completely pointless (the one connecting temple Main Hall with the Inner Sanctum, or the Dilapidated Temple with the Kuro's Room and a few others).

When I saw that

Spoiler

ashina castle became unavailable, I 100% expected that I was supposed to take that shortcut and travel through the level backwards (arriving just to see kuro kidnapped or something).

But nope. Do it again, same as last time, except this time all the enemies are super hard.

Kuro's shortcut is just baffling. Why does it exist? It has absolutely no purpose, and doesn't even make geographic sense.

Cromwell I guess dojo's broken window counts, but afaik it's not there the first time, and the miniboss in there is super hard either way...

 

[Sentinel]

Also thinking back to the game the side quests were terrible. Simple, straightforward and unrewarding. What a missed opportunity to have a questline for, say, Jinza or Kotaro where you first help them and then you can summon them or some such. But instead you get some fruit and a res statue. Lame.

They weren't rewarding in the material sense but they were very good. I'm actually willing to bet you haven't completed most of them and think they just ended out of nowhere.

 

[Dedicated_Dark]

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Josh...ifferent_Take_on_Sekiro_Shadows_Die_Twice.php

He says Sekiro is designed as a 'My way or the Highway' game. Enemies require very specific solutions and forces you to predict enemy action beforehand to play. I haven't played the game yet, but if this is true it'll be disappointing for me. As I expected this to be the 1st proper action game from From Soft..

 

[cvv]

Also thinking back to the game the side quests were terrible. Simple, straightforward and unrewarding. What a missed opportunity to have a questline for, say, Jinza or Kotaro where you first help them and then you can summon them or some such. But instead you get some fruit and a res statue. Lame.

They weren't rewarding in the material sense but they were very good. I'm actually willing to bet you haven't completed most of them and think they just ended out of nowhere.

I've completed both Kotaro and Jinzo endings. Not impressed at all. I've also completed the meagre merchant questline (give him money, eavesdrop on someone, bring him a strong dude). EDIT: Oh and the carp quest, that one was ok.

Spoiler

- You give Kotaro the white flower and whisk him to the monkey area; he gives you parsimmon
- You give Kotaro the white-red flower and send him to the merchant; the merchant has a wider offering but the monk just sits there
- You don't do anything with Jinzo, kill Orin and he gives you a res statue
- You send him to Dojun; only that questline is marginally more complex because you have to get the Red Eyes and do some eavesdropping

Is there anything else? Can you compare this to the deluge of NPCs and the complexity of Logan, Siegmeyer or Ostrava questlines? What's your standard for saying Sekiro quests are "good"? Compared to what?

 

[Sentinel]

Also thinking back to the game the side quests were terrible. Simple, straightforward and unrewarding. What a missed opportunity to have a questline for, say, Jinza or Kotaro where you first help them and then you can summon them or some such. But instead you get some fruit and a res statue. Lame.

They weren't rewarding in the material sense but they were very good. I'm actually willing to bet you haven't completed most of them and think they just ended out of nowhere.

I've completed both Kotaro and Jinzo endings. Not impressed at all. I've also completed the meagre merchant questline (give him money, eavesdrop on someone, bring him a strong dude). EDIT: Oh and the carp quest, that one was ok.

Spoiler

- You give Kotaro the white flower and whisk him to the monkey area; he gives you parsimmon
- You give Kotaro the white-red flower and send him to the merchant; the merchant has a wider offering but the monk just sits there
- You don't do anything with Jinzo, kill Orin and he gives you a res statue
- You send him to Dojun; only that questline is marginally more complex because you have to get the Red Eyes and do some eavesdropping

Is there anything else? Can you compare this to the deluge of NPCs and the complexity of Logan, Siegmeyer or Ostrava questlines? What's your standard for saying Sekiro quests are "good"? Compared to what?

Fuck, I struggle with these chink names. Who's Kotaro or Jinzo? They all sound the same to me. Is Kotaro the wandering swordsman? But Tengu (rat guy) questline and Blackhat immediately come to mind as good quests.

I don't understand how your standard can be the Dark Souls 1 questlines. They were only "complex" in the sense that you had to backtrack to areas you had been to 20 hours ago for some reason (like having to go back to Blighttown for no reason for Siegmeyer). The actual events of the quests were nothing special (with the exception of Siegmeyer). Quests were way better in Dark Souls 3 and Bloodborne, where a questline ends with the NPC helping you in a bossfight he has personal investment in, or quests in general were much better integrated into the game world and progression.

 

[Puteo]

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Josh...ifferent_Take_on_Sekiro_Shadows_Die_Twice.php

He says Sekiro is designed as a 'My way or the Highway' game. Enemies require very specific solutions and forces you to predict enemy action beforehand to play. I haven't played the game yet, but if this is true it'll be disappointing for me. As I expected this to be the 1st proper action game from From Soft..

That is a surprisingly good review, I agree with all his points on combat design. I couldn't believe a paid games journalist could write something like that so I checked his profile, turns out he is neither. Makes sense.

 

[Cromwell]

I finally put the game aside for a while.

I tried the ape fight again and just couldnt find a way to beat his second phase. I used the spear the two times the ape used the overhead slash but couldnt find any other way to do real damage to him, he killed me with about 3 hits on his posture bar left (I assume) and I had to begin anew with the first phase. I mean the first isnt hard, bock everything hit him when hes vulnerable and use firecrackers for more vulnerability, if I hit him often enough in succession he will stumble and I can hit him more which makes him stumble again and I can hit even more. I had trys were I put him down without taking any damage at all but one fucking mistake in the wrong moment and I lose 75% of my healthbar in one attack (my favorite is is jump grab from right inf ront of you). In the second phase I have not seen one good opening to actually hurt him (aside from the neck stab) because he will just scream and if you dont run and jump away instantly you will die, instantly (the one mechanic from bloodborne I hate with a passion).

This "one mistake and youre done" is bad enough in this fight but I remember in genishiros phase 3 you even have to struggle to heal back up again and from what I read here its worse with the final boss. Resurrection adds nothing worthwhile and doesnt give you any edge in a boss or miniboss fight.

Consumables are absolutely and utterly useless, I tried confetti on the undead ape and I think I got a clean hit in before that shit stopped working. Then you have all the other issues like going near a wall and losing lock on while something big and hairy is pounding you like you are the prison slut, being locked in an animation whhile the enemy suddenly decides to use one of his rape moves and you hammer that mikiri dodge or jump button but you are already attackin g and therefore youre fucked, or you try to react but cant quite see if its a sweep or a trust because theres a big warning sign obscuring the fucking boss. For me theres a fine line between hard and fun or outright frustrating and I never felt as frustrated in any other of froms games I played.

 

[Sentinel]

why would you try the confetti on the ape

 

[Cromwell]

why would you try the confetti on the ape

because hes an apparition after you murdered him in phase 1? Hes also is blind and goes by sound but I havent found a way to exploit that.

 

[Lutte]

In the second phase I have not seen one good opening to actually hurt him (aside from the neck stab) because he will just scream and if you dont run and jump away instantly you will die, instantly (the one mechanic from bloodborne I hate with a passion).

Not going to say that in defense of the game, because I'm not a huge fan of the design either, but I applied the tips about the spear after parrying overhead attack when I encountered him a second time with the double ape in the cavern and just went for full evasion when he did other things and it worked well. As you say you don't have many clear cut opportunities to attack besides that specific time so you should just play fully defensively during the other patterns. If your posture bar is running too high because you can't handle perfect parry of every attack, run away and hold the block button for a little while, when the boss is not hitting you : counter-intuitively, it reduces your posture level at a high rate, which goes against the usual souls of stamina regenerating slower when blocking. I did that a lot during most late game fight, run as far away from the boss as possible and hold block until I recovered all posture then went back to the boss. Yeah doing that also lets the boss recover a little posture if their health hasn't been whittled down a bit but it's better than being posture broken and dying once again being staggered and then hit by combo.

And yeah, you can go from high health to zero reaaaaaaaally fast in that game. A single mistake on some of Owl's second encounter will instant kill you at the max health you can get when you reach him, like jumping away with the wrong timing when he does the firecracker + slash combo for example. I wish my firecrackers did that level of damage, lol.

 

[Villagkouras]

STILL haven't finished the game due to work, but at the end and kinda tired of it. I'm very torn about how I feel about it.

I think that they designed the new combat/parry/posture system first but it turned out to be way too easy when someone gets the hang of it and then they added some stuff to counter this which seem artificial.

I died in Sekiro more times than any Souls game but when there was a straightforward swordfight I knew I was going to win because the parry system is easy, especially in quick enemy combos.

I see a lot of people loving this game to death due to the combat system. From should have thought to add a chalice dungeon kind of thing to let these players enjoy combat.

I also see a lot of Dark Souls fans to hate it and never touch it again.

Animation lengths is a cause of frustration for me. I think that some animations like healing are too slow for this kind of game. Bloodborne was a bit slower and healing was much faster. Other items take too long to use, also. I think From should think another type of UI, when fighting against the Headless, trying to pick the items are much more difficult than the fight itself. This UI is fine for Dark Souls which has more openings, not so much for Sekiro.

Camera was another issue for me more noticeable than the previous games. There are too many instances that we are cornered and see absolutely nothing, not even if we are on the ground which is crucial.

All I'm saying is that while the combat system is sometimes perfect, there are some little things that hold the experience back.

I have to respect them for trying to change things and delivered, not only in combat, but in movement, setting, mechanics, story, apart from some design choices I can't find a single fault on this game. On the other hand, I can't find a level like Painted World in DS1 or DS2 DLCs and I feel like From moved on from this kind of stuff and focuses more on on bosses but I haven't.

 

[Sentinel]

why would you try the confetti on the ape

because hes an apparition after you murdered him in phase 1? Hes also is blind and goes by sound but I havent found a way to exploit that.

He isn't an apparition. The apparition enemies are the purple magic fellas - Headless and Shichinmen Warriors.

 

[Puteo]

If your posture bar is running too high because you can't handle perfect parry of every attack

A perfect parry will still cost you posture, it's just that you cannot be posture-broken on a perfect parry. So if you can parry everything you can parry forever. If you parry 99 hits and block 1 you're broken.

 

[toro]

why would you try the confetti on the ape

because hes an apparition after you murdered him in phase 1? Hes also is blind and goes by sound but I havent found a way to exploit that.

He isn't an apparition. The apparition enemies are the purple magic fellas - Headless and Shichinmen Warriors.

https://sekiroshadowsdietwice.wiki.fextralife.com/Guardian+Ape

Spoiler

(Phase 2)
Mortal Blade
Divine Confetti
Loaded Spear

https://sekiroshadowsdietwice.wiki.fextralife.com/Loaded+Spear

Just FYI: Almost all streamers are using Divine Confetti on the Headless Ape.

 

[toro]

Just spent over on hour on the Spear General + the Sword guy. This fight is so retarded.

You have to be aware of the super aggressive Spear general but the space is small, there is fire and the camera is an abomination.

There is one rifle man which you can posses for some distraction but he doesn't live long.

My solution was to bait the sword guy to fall into the pit and then be aggressive with the Spear General. It worked but it took an hour for the stars to align.

Edit: Of course, there is a cheese way.

Spoiler

 

[Sentinel]

why would you try the confetti on the ape

because hes an apparition after you murdered him in phase 1? Hes also is blind and goes by sound but I havent found a way to exploit that.

He isn't an apparition. The apparition enemies are the purple magic fellas - Headless and Shichinmen Warriors.

https://sekiroshadowsdietwice.wiki.fextralife.com/Guardian+Ape

Spoiler

(Phase 2)
Mortal Blade
Divine Confetti
Loaded Spear

Just FYI: Almost all streamers are using Divine Confetti on the Headless Ape.

because confetti gives you a small boost regardless of enemy type, but the ape isnt an apparition enemy. you're wasting an item.

 

[Lutte]

Just spent over on hour on the Spear General + the Sword guy. This fight is so retarded.

You have to be aware of the super aggressive Spear general but the space is small, there is fire and the camera is an abomination.

There is one rifle man which you can posses for some distraction but he doesn't live long.

My solution was to bait the sword guy to fall into the pit and then be aggressive with the Spear General. It worked but it took an hour for the stars to align.

Just cheese it, there's always a way to cheese the minibosses of the open maps. Aggro them, then lose aggro by getting to the branch and jump to the area that leads further away from them and the idol on the side. Then get back on the branch closest to them once they turned back, quickly jump off the branch and hang on the ledge, and use the finger whistle prosthetic on the sword guy. He will come looking for the source of noise (you), move a bit to the side and he won't notice you, then once he turns his back to you, you can quickly get a backstab on him, allowing you to possess him with the ninjutsu technique.
Now, instead of having two enemies, you have an ally fighting alongside you. Occasional firecrackers and careful hit and run while your ally keeps him busy and he's down in no time.