Serious Business - Is Dishonored better than Thief?

[Curratum]

I think all the kiddies telling people Dishonored is not a stealth game, is popamole or is vastly inferior to Thief never played either Dishonored game without powers.

 

[Child of Malkav]

I think all the kiddies telling people Dishonored is not a stealth game, is popamole or is vastly inferior to Thief never played either Dishonored game without powers.

Surely it's not that hard to read the whole 5 pages of this thread to find a counter argument to what you just said, right? As they were offered aplenty not only by me but by the other participants here.

 

[RNGsus]

Heh, look at this kid. I bet he doesn't even play Dishonorabu the wrong way like I do.

 

[JarlFrank]

For people who say Thief guards should notice torches being put out, what should happen when they do and what would be the consequences for the game? Should they go on alert mode, warn other guards? Wouldn't that make true ghosting impossible?

They should respond as they would to any other irregular thing they find or hear. First they get cautious because the light around them is turned off or the light in a room is turned off (or on)when it isn't supposed to be. Then they search the area and turn the torch on (or off) then they leave. If it happens again they stay in a heightened alert state.

Guards should be aware of the state of their environment prior to player manipulation. How much they're aware should vary by game difficulty or design.

Splinter cell chaos theory did this. In one of the later missions, I was tasked to infiltrate an agency. I'm inside a room and turn the lights off because I don't want the guards to know I'm in there. A guard walks past the room and notices that the light is off, even though it's supposed to be on (or vice versa). He walks in, checks the room for what changed and switches the lights before leaving.

They also check for windows that are opened when they should be closed, doors that had their locks broken or computers that were tampered or hacked when they should be off.

A modern Thief successor should allow for the player to set such AI parameters as part of the difficulty selection.

Easy: plays like Thief
Hard: guards notice open doors that weren't before, lights that are on or off that were the opposite before, etc.

 

[Master]

For people who say Thief guards should notice torches being put out, what should happen when they do and what would be the consequences for the game? Should they go on alert mode, warn other guards? Wouldn't that make true ghosting impossible?

But they do this in T2. They mutter something about "damn torches" and then relight them. Though maybe not on all maps.

 

[RNGsus]

They can kindle gas lamps, not torches iirc.

 

[Master]

I'm not 100% sure but they do it with torches too.

 

[Carrion]

I played Dishonored for an hour and I've got a couple of questions.

1) Is the in-game brightness calibration alright? The prison level has many pitch-black spots, which in itself is all fine and good, but enemies seem to easily spot you even from the darkest corner. I'm playing on Very Hard or whatever the highest setting is, so maybe that has something to do with it, but something feels a bit off when a guard can spot me crouching on some stairs when I can't even see the damn staircase. I don't want to turn the setting too bright either because that might make the game too easy and just dull to look at.
2) What parts of the interface can you safely turn off? I mean, I'd like to turn off all of that extra shit but don't really want to do that until I know a bit more about how the game works. I instantly disabled the quest markers since I can't stand them, although I remember reading that there's at least one spot where you're expected to use them. Some other things like the awareness and stance indicators also had to go since they seemed like the most pointless things ever. What about all the indicators related to object highlighting and contextual actions?

 

[agentorange]

The game shouldn't be that dark, and more importantly there is no light/darkness system to the game. The guards will see you regardless of shadows. Stealth is entirely based on line of sight.

You can turn off all of the interface elements, I've never played the game with any of that stuff enabled. Unlike Prey where there was a single section that I found impossible without the quest compass, I never had to enable it in Dishonored.

 

[DalekFlay]

I left the health bars on, but yeah no need for excessive UI. There was one hidden safe code in the DLC that I couldn't find without a quest marker, but that's it.

And yeah only line of sight. Dishonored is much more about stalking around rooftops and getting behind enemies than it is sneaking through the shadows.

 

[FranticDistortion]

The only stealth game to rival Thief is Mark of the ninja, not Dishonored.

 

[Yosharian]

Dishonored 2: removed nearly all the UI, refused powers, basically did everything I could to make the game old school.

It's still really boring and mediocre.

Thief is one of the greatest videogames of all time. Dishonored 1/2 are just barely competent videogames.

The only reason they seem decent is because we're drowning in mediocre shit and have been for the past 15 years or so, so when something vaguely competent comes along it seems amazing, at first anyway.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

I never played Dishonored - I was under the impression it‘s a super easy popamole game without any challenge whatsoever because of the shitload of overpowered magical abilities you get. Sure, you can pretend you have to play it like a stealth game, but what’s the point?

Genuinely curious here: What do you guys mean by „playing without powers“? Is this actually supported by the game mechanically or from a story perspective? At least a score at the end of the mission that rewards you for that? Because it sounds like a completely artificial way to play the game restraining yourself like that. I guess you could say the same about ghosting/ not overusing the black jack in Thief, but still...aren‘t the powers a major part of the gameplay?

I‘d genuinely love to be proven wrong so that I can give it a spin after all these years.

 

[Child of Malkav]

The only stealth game to rival Thief is Mark of the ninja, not Dishonored.

Ahem, and Splinter Cell.

 

[Wunderbar]

Genuinely curious here: What do you guys mean by „playing without powers“? Is this actually supported by the game mechanically or from a story perspective?

Dishonored 2 supports it by asking you a question at the very beginning.
First game doesn't ask you, but gives you an achievement / trophy for beating the game without using powers.

 

[Child of Malkav]

I never played Dishonored - I was under the impression it‘s a super easy popamole game without any challenge whatsoever because of the shitload of overpowered magical abilities you get. Sure, you can pretend you have to play it like a stealth game, but what’s the point?

Genuinely curious here: What do you guys mean by „playing without powers“? Is this actually supported by the game mechanically or from a story perspective? At least a score at the end of the mission that rewards you for that? Because it sounds like a completely artificial way to play the game restraining yourself like that. I guess you could say the same about ghosting/ not overusing the black jack in Thief, but still...aren‘t the powers a major part of the gameplay?

I‘d genuinely love to be proven wrong so that I can give it a spin after all these years.

Yes, the games are very easy.
Regarding the option to play without using powers, only D2 gives you that choice. And it is supported by the game, as in if you refuse to have access to supernatural abilities you'll be completely cut off from them and the runes (the item that allows you to upgrade your powers) get converted to money instead.
The score at the end of a mission doesn't reflect whether you used powers or not you accepted them in the first place. It's just for achievement.
Also, playing with powers is very fun. Look up on YouTube the player, StealthgamerBR for his compilations of various "stealth" kills in D1\2 to get a better idea of the systems at work that allow for such fun.

 

[what am i doing]

I never played Dishonored - I was under the impression it‘s a super easy popamole game without any challenge whatsoever because of the shitload of overpowered magical abilities you get. Sure, you can pretend you have to play it like a stealth game, but what’s the point?

Genuinely curious here: What do you guys mean by „playing without powers“? Is this actually supported by the game mechanically or from a story perspective? At least a score at the end of the mission that rewards you for that? Because it sounds like a completely artificial way to play the game restraining yourself like that. I guess you could say the same about ghosting/ not overusing the black jack in Thief, but still...aren‘t the powers a major part of the gameplay?

In Dishonored 2 you can disable them altogether. The game is still quite easy as a combat game due to the parry/instakill mechanic and the wide assortment of combat-oriented gear you get (such as the pistol), not to mention the abundance of health potions. Even on hardcore difficulty it's not difficult to engage in combat, which trivializes the stealth. In a game like Thief, trying to fight your way through missions would be a fool's errand even if it didn't cause mission failure when you kill someone. In a game like Styx, flat out impossible.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

Styx is too often overlooked in stealth game threads. It’s great.

 

[what am i doing]

Styx is too often overlooked in stealth game threads. It’s great.

The true spiritual successor to Thief, in my opinion.

 

[Silly Germans]

Dishonored feels way to much like a console game. Hold f to do shit. waypoint markers,
etc. I don't know if you can deactivate this but my first impressions of it were so poor
that i stopped playing it after a short time. I got not a single positive impression or inkling
that it is somehow comparable to Thief.
I also remember being disappointed by combat. I enjoyed Dark Messiah of Might and Magic
and expected Dishonored's combat to be better but it wasn't at all. I had high expectations
after Arx Fatalis and Dark Messiah but Dishonored was a mayor let down in comparison with
those games. I felt reminded of the BG2 -> Dragon Age situation, which was also major decline
back then.

It might be a decent game by itself but within that mind-frame it feels like a big letdown.

 

[what am i doing]

Dishonored is a console game, that's why it feels like one. Dark Messiah was originally a PC exclusive and was later ported. Dishonored was designed for consoles from day one.

 

[Ash]

Dishonored is Arkane's worst game, yet in typical modern gaming fashion is their most popular one. Though it is the one game that got good marketing behind it which explains a lot in that regard.

Arx Fatalis >> Prey >= Dark Messiah >> Dishonored

And yes, Thief is better than Dishonored. Dishonored is just boring. It's too easy and handholdey. It excells at nothing. Has zero likable characters. Level design is repetitive (you rarely deviate from the streets of Dunwall). Has RPG systems and exploration but it's weak as fuck and unnecessary past 1/3rd in as you just get more OP. I don't remember a single segment from the game's soundtrack. I am not crazy about Thief like some here but putting Dishonored on the same level let alone above it is just nonsense. Everything in Thief, while there isn't a great deal, is purposeful, cohesive and meaningful for the most part. And it just has so much more style and character.

 

[JDR13]

I also remember being disappointed by combat. I enjoyed Dark Messiah of Might and Magic
and expected Dishonored's combat to be better but it wasn't at all. I had high expectations
after Arx Fatalis and Dark Messiah but Dishonored was a mayor let down in comparison with
those games. .

Why would you expect the combat to be better than in a game where combat was pretty much the only focus?

I just replayed DM this year. While it's still a fun game, I think it's a little overrated due to nostalgia. It really hasn't aged that well to be honest, and compared to Dishonored, it feels pretty clunky.

 

[Ash]

Dark Messiah isn't a great game. But at least it isn't totally boring and piss easy. Every level is completely different from the last. FP combat was fun and innovative (for the time). Dishonored only brought blink to the table, otherwise its just a shit mish-mash of other, better games.

 

[HoboForEternity]

Dishonored is Arkane's worst game, yet in typical modern gaming fashion is their most popular one. Though it is the one game that got good marketing behind it which explains a lot in that regard.

Arx Fatalis >> Prey >= Dark Messiah >> Dishonored

And yes, Thief is better than Dishonored. Dishonored is just boring. It's too easy and handholdey. It excells at nothing. Has zero likable characters. Level design is repetitive (you rarely deviate from the streets of Dunwall). Has RPG systems and exploration but it's weak as fuck and unnecessary past 1/3rd in as you just get more OP. I don't remember a single segment from the game's soundtrack. I am not crazy about Thief like some here but putting Dishonored on the same level let alone above it is just nonsense. Everything in Thief, while there isn't a great deal, is purposeful, cohesive and meaningful for the most part. And it just has so much more style and character.

Never played dark messiah but i agree with the rating.

This comes from a guy who love dishonored.

I dont agree dishonores level design is repetitive. Dunwall is awesome, the problem is they are a tad too small because it was accustomed to last gen consoles processing power.

It is only hand holdy if you abuse the shit of your powers and turn on the waypoints.

D2 is actually an excellent game much better than D1. Tons of memorable levels, better and polished mechanics.