Skyrim is worse than Oblivion in every way

[Utgard-Loki]

ulfric was going to be a greybeard himself and studied on high hrothgar until the war between the aldmeri dominion and the empire started.

 

[Commissar Draco]

ulfric was going to be a greybeard himself and studied on high hrothgar until the war between the aldmeri dominion and the empire started.

As a boy, Ulfric was chosen by the Greybeards to study with them at High Hrothgar. He trained with them for almost ten years and developed his skills in the Way of the Voice. He was to become a Greybeard himself, but his life took a different path when The Great War began in 4E 171. Ulfric felt compelled to help the war effort and left High Hrothgar to join the Imperial Legion, [3] much to the disdain of Arngeir, who believed that the Way of the Voice should only be used for the worship of Kynareth. [4]

Skyrim is derpy at moments like the let's escort the obviously Vampire chick to her Papa instead of sticking the bitch with stake and taking fraking the Elder Scroll to Dawnguard/sell it for Jewgold but this is not the case; Ulfric had perfect reason to know a few shouts.

 

[Turisas]

sticking the bitch with stake

Sounds like a job for RK47's intrepid adventurer.

 

[Caim]

Skyrim is derpy at moments like the let's escort the obviously Vampire chick to her Papa instead of sticking the bitch with stake and taking fraking the Elder Scroll to Dawnguard/sell it for Jewgold but this is not the case.

This really bothered me. We had no reason to believe this lady nor should we GIVE AN ELDER SCROLL TO THE VAMPIRES.

But we did. And it was stupid.

And killing her would not even have changed the main quest all that much; the vampires would not have been able to find the Cavern of the MacGuffin, so that the attack on the vampire castle could have started earlier.

Speaking of, why not go there immediately and kill all the vampires? That made no sense.

 

[Commissar Draco]

Meant staking her heart but whatever ticks ya Comrade.

Also:

• Spoiler

  For the quest Missing In Action, he has some unused dialogue regarding Thorald Gray-Mane's release from Northwatch Keep. You could tell Tullius you need a prisoner released from Northwatch Keep. If you are a legate of the Imperial Legion, Tullius would have said: "The Thalmor? Do you have any idea what you're asking? I can only imagine the headaches this is going to cause... Here, take this. Assuming they even honor it, you should be able to get your prisoner out." Tullius would have then given you an Imperial order to show to the Northwatch Guard at the keep.

One of the few quests with some C&C and Bethpizda forgot to implement it . It was bugged the first time I Played and this time the keep was guarded by Thalmor not Imperial Legion so raided them hard with some Nord bros. Don't count the miles you walked count the dead germans Elves.

 

[Turisas]

Meant staking her heart but whatever ticks ya Comrade.

Ah, I just had a modding epiphany. A vampire stake strap-on - rape and murder at the same time! Brb gotta go propose this to loverslab.

 

[RK47]

....u can rape her in the sun to make her turn to ash as u cum.

j/k that was a reanimated body of my vanquished enemies.

 

[DraQ]

And it's not vital in combat. Not in TES combat at least.

Ever tried playing acrobat or anything else relying on mobility and long reach weapon (spear, staff) for defense?

Because it's just derpy hack and slash with occasional blocking.

You have it ass backwards. Combat doesn't have shitty mechanics because it's derpy H&S. It's derpy H&S because it has shitty mechanics.

You answered your own argument. In modern TES games it's superfluous/useless given the content design.

Again, ass backwards. Content relies on mechanics driving it. You don't make shitload content without mechanics already in place.

Especially given recent TES game shitty open world design. There are very few places where being able to jump 30% higher would make a difference.

Actually outdoor locations in Skyrim allow you to do pretty surprising stuff with a bit of jumping. Even more if you use mods that actually allows mobility to be stat-based (Requiem).

Useful in combat? Baloney. Do you find yourself jumping around a lot in Oblivion/Skyrim combat? I sure don't.

Yes, to gain situational advantage when not playing tank.

What's so interesting about Detect Life, Dispel, Soul Trap, Reflect, and Spell absorb? Telekinesis, okay, sure. But, like I said they just moved most of them to other categories. Didn't really make a difference.

So you're fine with an illusion spell that allows you to trick yourself into thinking that you know where you're going?

Also, spells that are more than just attack/heal/buff/debuff are inherently interesting.

As for absorb and reflect - what does Ward spell restore, actually? Isn't it a textbook Mysticism spell?

Anyway, keep my answer in perspective. I was responding to the momo who claimed Oblivion was better than Skyrim and provided as evidence the fact that they ditched attributes and skills. Reality is, none of those mattered in Oblivion given the massive changes they made post Morrowind.

That doesn't make ditching them good, that merely reveals that they shouldn't have derped them up in the first place prior to ditching them.

Other than that - Carrion has most of your derp addressed.

Beautifully, even.

My point is that the entire combat and development system is detached from in-depth character development. The skills have been greatly reduced from the already dwindling and severely normalized Oblivion. Oblivion changed its system from morrowind, as well removing the need for skill development for successful application of skills in most cases. The game became "action/adventure" oriented even then, though because the original system contained many elements of its predecessor, core changes could be added to provide that functionality again.

With Skyrim, such has been stripped away, leaving a very simplistic system to which attempting to insert complexity within it is extremely limited without having the source code to work with.

When oblivion was released, it didn't take long for people to make drastic changes to various combat and character development systems to repair what it was lacking compared to morrowind. Slyrim, being that it is a console designed game from the ground up lacks any ability to achieve those levels of customization. That is why the bulk of what you see in terms of mods for skyrim or UI adjustments for PC, sounds, graphics, and basic quest changes. The combat engine is already streamlined and there is no way to expand it to achieve the complexity of the past games. Nothing exists to achieve that, the system is what it is and you are limited by that.

Even if someone figured out how to create a 3rd party module to add such features, you are talking about trying to swim upstream and the effort would be pointless. It would be easier to enhance Oblivion/Morrowind engines than it would be to work with Skyrims. Like I said, the game is just terrible on all levels of ability. It really is nothing more than a console junk game thrown out there to appeal to a specific audience that wanted an action game in a free roaming world.

Removing of attributes and cutting down the number of skill was inexcusable, but the character system itself is better than in Oblivion, if only because limited amount of perks and forced allocation of points in either stamina, magicka, or health actually introduces consequences to character building not seen in TES since Daggerfall's advantage and disadvantage menus.

As for mechanical mods, try installing Requiem.

Not combat, character development. Character development and combat are closely tied. The previous games were designed around building a character with numerous skills and abilities to which you tailored to your playstyle to overcome various obstacles.

Except if you play non-mage in Arena, making OP character in any numered TES is trivial. In Morrowind, for example, you can just buy all the skills you want, and money are very easy to get.

Yes, but that pretty much relies on single point where game failed - fix economy or remove trainers and *poof* gone, meaning that the rest of the system is pretty sound.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

ulfric was going to be a greybeard himself and studied on high hrothgar until the war between the aldmeri dominion and the empire started.

He's been know to use the thu'um when he took out the forsworn in exchange for free worship of Talos (which didn't happen, and inspired him to rebel), more or less 15 years before the beginning of the game's story. Assuming he's around 40 by the time you meet him, he's way too skilled compared to the Greybeards, who are more powerful but also a lot older. Then again, this is probably nitpicking.

 

[DraQ]

ulfric was going to be a greybeard himself and studied on high hrothgar until the war between the aldmeri dominion and the empire started.

He's been know to use the thu'um when he took out the forsworn in exchange for free worship of Talos (which didn't happen, and inspired him to rebel), more or less 15 years before the beginning of the game's story. Assuming he's around 40 by the time you meet him, he's way too skilled compared to the Greybeards, who are more powerful but also a lot older. Then again, this is probably nitpicking.

Presumably a Greybeard would be able to shout Ulfic along with his stone castle into the sea.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Yeah, only the leader talks to you because the others aren't trained enough not to kill you by accident. Which I would understand if they were novices, but they're old men who have been practicing for decades, and that's why I find it weird for Ulfric to have no problem with that (unless the learning process isn't linear and there's a point where you are too strong to control your own voice, and Ulfric stopped training before that)

 

[Utgard-Loki]

only words of power ulfirc knows are those of unrelenting popamole. so it's not suprising.

 

[Metro]

Ever tried playing acrobat or anything else relying on mobility and long reach weapon (spear, staff) for defense?

Something you can't do in Oblivion/Skyrim which is what we're talking about.

You have it ass backwards. Combat doesn't have shitty mechanics because it's derpy H&S. It's derpy H&S because it has shitty mechanics.

The end result is shitty mechanics thus the argument for acrobatics and athletics in the last two games is ludicrous.

Actually outdoor locations in Skyrim allow you to do pretty surprising stuff with a bit of jumping. Even more if you use mods that actually allows mobility to be stat-based (Requiem).

Actually there isn't. You're stretching it. It's basically the same type of world design as Fallout 3. Again, mods don't help your argument as we're talking about Bethesda's design decisions relative to the last two TES games.

Yes, to gain situational advantage when not playing tank.

Blazing speed and massive leaps aren't essential to get 'situational advantage' in combat. If you're not a tank character you're going to gain most of your advantage pre-combat/setting up your attack first.

So you're fine with an illusion spell that allows you to trick yourself into thinking that you know where you're going?

Because that's so different than a quest compass?

That doesn't make ditching them good, that merely reveals that they shouldn't have derped them up in the first place prior to ditching them.

It's neither good nor bad. It's irrelevant and that was my point. The derp was already pulled off in Oblivion. They weren't going to go back to Morrowind type design. At least not as far as game mechanics go because that would require more in-depth world, level, and encounter design. Overall Skyrim was an improvement. The removal of the skills and attributes have little to no impact on the gameplay paradigm already introduced in Derpblivion.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Ever tried playing acrobat or anything else relying on mobility and long reach weapon (spear, staff) for defense?

Something you can't do in Oblivion/Skyrim which is what we're talking about.

You can do that in Oblivion, bigger weapons have longer reach and Speed and Athletics/Acrobatics influences your movement speed and jumping height / distance. It's just not very practical since in TES it's more efficient to just hit the enemy harder.

 

[Metro]

It's just not very practical since in TES it's more efficient to just hit the enemy harder.

And this is the bottom line. DraQ is arguing theoretically. I'm talking about with how this stuff actually plays out in the latter two games. Unmodded.

 

[DraQ]

It's just not very practical since in TES it's more efficient to just hit the enemy harder.

And this is the bottom line. DraQ is arguing theoretically. I'm talking about with how this stuff actually plays out in the latter two games. Unmodded.

So you say that you can't rely on superior mobility in a game where you can't have superior mobility?

Why, I never!

 

[DalekFlay]

My main Skyrim playthrough was with a speedy spellsword and it worked fine. I don't even think I increased health until 20 levels or so into the game, I focused on never getting hit.

 

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

Hilarious disconnect between the Blades of Oblivion and Skyrim.

Oblivion: "May the Dragonfire ever burn!" "For the dragons!" *Insert various other quotes* Martin turns into dragon and saves everyone.


Skyrim: "Fuck all dragons, even the good one that made it possible for us to fight back! Rhargr! We've secretly been about killing dragons all along!"


I liked them better when they were just a bunch of Imperial Agents who half the time denied their association even if you were working for them, and screwed around with local lore and superstition for their own ends.

 

[Xi]

I thought this was impressive. The engine definitely saw improvements with Skyrim. Now, if TESO fails, we might actually get a TES 6. Still, Fallout 4 is more likely. That will be interesting.

Also, posting in an old ass thread! Dead horses everywhere being kicked!

 

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

To be fair with the right settings ENB can make almost any game made in the last 10 years or so look respectable, if not amazing. If you don't mind tweaking it constantly to get optimal settings. Bleh.

 

[Caim]

I liked them better when they were just a bunch of Imperial Agents who half the time denied their association even if you were working for them, and screwed around with local lore and superstition for their own ends.

That is because that is actually sort of interesting.

And in Skyrim it just adds fake C&C.

 

[Surf Solar]

All the best graphics (and btw I don't think it looks that much good) can do something if the whole world feels lifeless and boring.

That ENB effect looks horrible to my eyes, but that's a matter of taste I guess.

 

[DalekFlay]

Now, if TESO fails, we might actually get a TES 6. Still, Fallout 4 is more likely. That will be interesting.

TES Online is a different developer and no matter how well it does I don't think Bethesda Softworks is going to change their bread and butter design that sells 10+ million copies. They might ass co-op or something.

 

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

Yeah, only the leader talks to you because the others aren't trained enough not to kill you by accident. Which I would understand if they were novices, but they're old men who have been practicing for decades, and that's why I find it weird for Ulfric to have no problem with that (unless the learning process isn't linear and there's a point where you are too strong to control your own voice, and Ulfric stopped training before that)

Prior to Skyrim the lore we had on the Greybeards (consisting of a few references at most) said that when they weren't being used as siege weapons most had to be kept gagged. I'd wager your threshold theory is close to the truth. Tons of effort to get to a certain usefulness from your Shouts, then afterwards even more not to nuke everything around you. Ulric strikes me as a guy who had the innate talent but not the time to reach that dangerous plateau.

 

[VioletShadow]

I honestly couldn't tell which one is worse. I played Oblivion for about 15 min before giving up because the game was making me sick (literally, like motion sickness kind of sick), then gave it another try and it was boring, didn't feel like talking to anyone or doing anything. With Skyrim, my total playtime is about 1 hour but comes down to the same thing as with Oblivion, boring, uninspired, tiring, can't get into it, no RP experience to speak of. Never felt like giving either another try.