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Slay the Spire is a pretty cool game

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by J1M, Aug 13, 2018.

  1. Goral Arcane Patron The Real Fanboy

    Goral
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    With The Watcher it's not that hard, with the rest I have some problems.

    My recent run with Ironclad:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. prodigydancer Arcane In My Safe Space

    prodigydancer
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    Yes, str-based deck seems to be the best bet most of the time. Defensive builds are possible with Barricade but they require a lot of synergy, and you need to build most of that synergy early.

    I'm starting to understand such things. E.g. poison is often the best bet for Silent - it effectively negates too many enemy mechanics (raw damage that ignores block, not affected by Weak, doesn't proc Thorns, very energy efficient, and upgraded Catalyst is just plain broken).

    Others say so too, but I'm still struggling with Watcher. I've had a couple successful runs but it's a very complex class and mistakes are costly.
     
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  3. Goral Arcane Patron The Real Fanboy

    Goral
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    Yeah, that's how I've beaten the game at 20 ascension but it was still extremely hard, especially at the beginning. I'm playing Custom games (don't have the patience to go level by level) and there is no bonus from the blue whale at the start and I have only 59 HP. As a result taking on any elite is just suicide (especially Lagavaulin, it quickly decreases my attacks to 0 unless I go poison, Silent just doesn't have any other powerful attacks, maybe besides a couple of gold cards which at the start are very uncommon). And with so little HP even normal enemy may be the last (there are many with huge block or massive damage and again, if not for poison it would be impossible to defeat them in time).

    Anyway, I now understand what you meant by broken, I've dealt over 2000 damage at one time (and with proper cards I could have gone to over 9000) and it was also great against bosses, although some of them nullified poison after a couple of turns (e.g. the knight boss from second city or the 12 turns clock boss from the last one or blobs from first city where once they multiply everything resets). In the end, I've defeated "last" boss #1 (12 clock) losing only 3 HP overall and the last boss #2 (that crow with crows that has another form after defeating him once) with only 3 HP left. I had had to preserve catalyst card for his second form, otherwise I wouldn't be able to defeat him.

    All in all I consider The Silent the weakest even though it has the strongest attacks (and by attacks I mean it deals highest damage and by far). Getting the right relics and cards is crucial (of course at this level at ascension), otherwise you might as well restart. The ironclad is a bit better, Defect significantly better but The Watcher is by far the best IMO. Reaching the second boss is rather easy no matter the relics or cards you get, it's just so versatile hero and deals massive amounts of damage even with starting cards.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. prodigydancer Arcane In My Safe Space

    prodigydancer
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    After losing 15 runs with Watcher I completely at a loss as to why people say it's such a great class. The class is trash:
    1) You have no easy ways to build str. You have no passive sources of damage. To do enough damage you need to be in the correct stance which isn't always possible (no, scrying doesn't really counter randomness).
    2) Your defensive options suck. Even Spirit Shield is objectively just unreliable garbage.
    3) Killing Time Eater is near impossible without good defense. Burning down 450+ HP in 12 cards is impossible and you simply have no tools to survive more than a few turns.

    Here's an example. A lean deck, OK cards, a good collection of relics. The run actually went very well but the moment I entered act 3 and saw TE, I knew it was over. I completed the run only to prove my point:

    [​IMG]

    For comparison: I'm on A8 with Silent with 8/16 wins now. Same with Defect. With Watcher I can't even beat A3.
     
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  5. Pope Amole II Prestigious Gentleman Nerd Commando Game Studios Developer

    Pope Amole II
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    Lean 25 card deck, lul. And dead branch as Watcher - as potent as that can be for the other classes, it is the utter, deadly trash for her.

    Let's see, Ragnarok is bad in your deck as you can't use wreath of flame and you don't have akabeko. Battle Hymn is trash, Foresight is whatever, Reach Heaven is utter trash, you have, basically, 5 0-cost cards but only one source of card drawing, whereas they should be proportioned 1 by 1. Tranquility is awful but I guess you have no other choice here. And not enough defends or strikes removed.

    The only thing that you have going for you is the amount of relics. Your deck is jank with neither idea nor plan, you have nothing that can kill high-level enemies but that's not the Watcher's problem - that is yours problem.
     
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  6. flyingjohn Arcane

    flyingjohn
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  7. prodigydancer Arcane In My Safe Space

    prodigydancer
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    Without solid sources of damage I wouldn't even get that far. Ragnarok and Reach Heaven are trash because Watcher is trash. It doesn't mean there are better options. Battle Hymn isn't trash with Deva Form - I have enough energy to use the Smites (just not enough survivability). The point about card drawing is moot because I died when TE was at about 80% HP. No amount of card drawing or anything could have saved me.

    I have to work with what the game offers me. And I have no problem winning with other classes. With Ironclad I tend to get greedy and I still win 40% of my runs, not 15% like on Watcher.

    On my last run with Silent I got The Bomb from Neow. I knew it was a victory before the run even started. Because you can build Silent perfectly around such cards. You can't build Watcher around anything because it's a shitty class that has zero synergy with anything. Seriously, the only mechanic defining the entire fucking class is burst damage from attacks. Then you hit something you can't burst down quickly enough and it's game over.
     
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  8. Pope Amole II Prestigious Gentleman Nerd Commando Game Studios Developer

    Pope Amole II
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    Look, you clearly don't know how to play the class. Why are you even trying to argue? What facts can you present?

    Here's how a good watcher deck looks like:

    [​IMG]

    That's how "lean" actually looks like and it reliably winds into an infinite combo one way or another, with the first-turn kill possibility. While you can play her thicker than that, Watcher is a combo class and this is what you should be aspiring for.

    In fact, because of the one-shot potential, you can say that Watcher is the easiest class to score asc 20 with (heart kill too if you're into that - infinite damage doesn't care). Mind you, this approach may not be to good in terms of streakability, but in 2-3 tries you can clean each and every level of ascension easily.
     
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  9. prodigydancer Arcane In My Safe Space

    prodigydancer
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    Oh, FFS. Am I saying that you can't win as Watcher at all? No. I win sometimes as Watcher, but sometimes is the key word.

    And before anyone says that Mantra deck is better - no it's not:

    [​IMG]

    And finally: no, I'm not denying that it's maybe possible after investing hundreds of hours to learn to achieve some kind of somewhat acceptable performance with Watcher. But the point of the discussion was that it's the strongest class. Which is laughable. It's the weakest and least forgiving of all classes.
     
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  10. <3sRichardSimmons Arcane Patron

    <3sRichardSimmons
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    I’m terrible with Watcher too, but “It’s my worst class, therefore it’s THE worst class!” is an... ah... interesting argument.
     
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  11. prodigydancer Arcane In My Safe Space

    prodigydancer
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    Let's try again:
    - There's a game with four character classes.
    - You try all of them and find out that three of them are relatively easy to master and have diverse and very powerful tools in their arsenal. The fourth is an extremely specialized glass cannon that fails every time the glass part is exposed.
    - People keep telling you that the fourth class is actually the strongest, but try as you might, it never quite works. Meanwhile, you keen beating the game with other classes shrugging off the negative modifiers from the higher difficulty levels.

    Conclusion? Oh yeah, git gud. I know. Except the whole git gud thing is simply an euphemism for "you need to invest more time in mastering Watcher because it's inferior to other classes".
     
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  12. Zombra An iron rock in the river of blood and evil Patron

    Zombra
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    Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    So I ruined my keyboard last night and checked my library for mouse-only games. Finally gave this a spin. It's pretty darn good.
     
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  13. <3sRichardSimmons Arcane Patron

    <3sRichardSimmons
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    You should try Monster Train as well. Not quite as good (and nowhere near as balanced) as STS perhaps, but better art, and it adds a Tower-Defense inspired mechanic that works waaaaaay better than you would ever think it could. Also playable mouse-only.
     
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  14. Berekän #11231 Patron

    Berekän
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    :what:
     
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  15. <3sRichardSimmons Arcane Patron

    <3sRichardSimmons
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    ? Not like it’s a high bar. Monster Train is definitely going for the cutesy post-WoW Blizzard look, but it executes on that quite well. Slay the Spire, while still the superior package overall, is pretty drab looking.
     
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  16. Tigranes Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Tigranes
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    I mean, STS is a completely bland looking game, so I guess so-

    [​IMG]

    Eww.

    That said, graphics really does not matter for a game like this. If it's half as good as STS then it's a good deal.
     
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  17. CaffeineConquistador Learned

    CaffeineConquistador
    Joined:
    May 19, 2018
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    Oh come on, it's not that bad.

    Not with this passing as a legit game:

    [​IMG]

    Dream Quest. Stick figures.
     
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