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KickStarter Spaceshock - Sci-Fi Turn Based Dungeon Crawl

PorkaMorka

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So you see, ability to move and look freely is natural and pretty much unquestionable refinement of step based movement and view.

Nope. It depends what you're trying to do. If your goals for the 3d movement section of the game are modest, step based movement is a big advantage, because the player can explore quickly, using a keyboard, rather than having to check every crack, constantly look around with the mouse and try to squeeze past every rock in order to explore a fully 3D environment. Step based reduces the need for obsessive compulsive behavior, so that the 3d movement section of the game can be simple, quick but functional.

The Gold Box games would get a lot worse if they were made full 3d instead of step based. It'd be better to focus on improving the combat if you wanted to improve those games.
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
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Grimrock is fine. To call it 'shitty' is just a desperate attempt at scoring some Kodex Kool Kreds.

No, I call it shitty because I didn't like it. Shocking, isn't it?

You not liking it doesn't make it a shitty game. Shocking? No. Stupid? Yes.

So when you are calling Grimrock 'fine', it is not your personal opinion, but some objective truth then? Talk about stupid.

Also, Grimrock is pretty much the worst offender when it comes to the mambo combat in RT games. So there's that. Bad combat equals bad game, especially since it does not have a real story or anything else than combat really.

Your memory of Eye of the Beholder 1 is pretty weak then.

Reading is teh hard too. I was talking about Eye of the Beholder 2.
 
Self-Ejected

theSavant

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or you want a solo + followers game where most tasks followers perform have been delegated to the AI and you don't have to directly command them very often (alleviating any clunkiness present in the interface, but it's sensitive to derpy AI).

Yeah, I fully agree with that. You basically need to automate the actions of your AI partners.

Now that you mention it I recall that in Dragon Age you could configure a list of actions for your party members, which they would cycle throughout the combat. This took some time to configure, but was very useful. You still needed an option to pause combat every once in a while though. This system could work well on RT blobbers too, and actually it could be quite fun. But again - you must have a pause option.
Awesome ... I totally forgot that feature from Dragon Age. And this feature totally spares a clickfest and you still got full control. RT blobbers could work that way (even if it is not RT in every single moment). Not even the phased based combat from Wizardry 8 worked that well.
 

evdk

comrade troglodyte :M
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Codex 2012 Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
or you want a solo + followers game where most tasks followers perform have been delegated to the AI and you don't have to directly command them very often (alleviating any clunkiness present in the interface, but it's sensitive to derpy AI).

Yeah, I fully agree with that. You basically need to automate the actions of your AI partners.
Stonekeep is the game for you then.
 

DraQ

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Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
So you see, ability to move and look freely is natural and pretty much unquestionable refinement of step based movement and view.

Nope. It depends what you're trying to do. If your goals for the 3d movement section of the game are modest, step based movement is a big advantage, because the player can explore quickly, using a keyboard, rather than having to check every crack, constantly look around with the mouse and try to squeeze past every rock in order to explore a fully 3D environment. Step based reduces the need for obsessive compulsive behavior, so that the 3d movement section of the game can be simple, quick but functional.

The Gold Box games would get a lot worse if they were made full 3d instead of step based. It'd be better to focus on improving the combat if you wanted to improve those games.
I believe I have already adressed this point:
A case could be made for retaining step based in a TB because it would allow much shorter travel times (a flimsy justification considering all the drawbacks, but a justification nevertheless), but in RT you need to limit the speed anyway, or you are designing a broken game

If you move at limited speed, so you can't just punch in the right combination of arrow keys quickly to backtrack, you might as well look around.
If there is no speed limit - well, you've just made a game where not just combat but even movement speed depends heavily on player's skill.
Good job.

OCD behaviour depends on both area and game design - if items aren't just lying about in realistic manner disguised among clutter (or need to be actually spotted by party to be pickable, thus announcing their presence in the interface), then freelook and smooth movement won't make your game more prone to OCD behaviour. If items are disguised and cleverly hidden - well, that's an intentional part of the game.

Case in point Wizardry 8 - the only OCD exploratory behaviour possible in this game is traversing all the corridors and combing wide open exteriors - this wouldn't change one bit if both corridors and exteriors would be made of tiles.

In fact I'd argue that freelook in itself might reduce tediousness of OCD behaviour if not OCD behaviour itself, because we are used to moving and looking around freely and can be expected to have all sorts of adaptations allowing us to scan area around as in smart and efficient manner. It's quite likely that at least some of those adaptations get shafted if we switch to stepwise movement, and multiplies of 90 degrees rotation, and we need much more effort to scan area.
Not to mention the limitations of such display mode - to ascertain whether you see a relevant object in the distance one might need to do only a minute shift of perspective - in a stepwise blobber, one will probably have to walk all the way towards it.

As for Goldbox games - they switch to separate combat screen, no?
Not exactly a case study of how stepwise movement benefits an RT blobber.
:roll:
 

Jasede

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I see twitch as part of the appeal. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea here but I am an eclectic player at heart. I love going to the arcade just as much as playing a nice TB RPG.
 

DraQ

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I see twitch as part of the appeal. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea here but I am an eclectic player at heart. I love going to the arcade just as much as playing a nice TB RPG.
I have nothing against twitch, even in RPG, but I prefer twitching using interface built for fast and effective twitching, in a game designed with it in mind.
 

Jasede

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A) I thought this was a First Person game, like Grimrock.
B) You can go prone. I like that a lot.
C) Reminds me of Incubation. That's a good thing. Have you played Incubation? Give it a shot.
 
Joined
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I laughed when I saw this video. No harm done. I like it. Came as a surprise though. I thought this would be a space blobber! I do like that your characters are on the grid in and out of battle.
 

Jonsnovv

Ideas Unbound Studio
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It is still FPS and now with not grid-based movement in the exploration mode (puzzles etc.). Space Shock now is much closer to Realms of Arkania (set in Space of course) and no more Space Grimrock.
 

Metro

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Not following you. What part is FPS? Just the exploration and when you get into combat it's isometric tactical?
 
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That was just a combat video Metro. Exploration is free fps.
 

Jack Dandy

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Feb 10, 2013
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Israel
Divinity: Original Sin 2
Ohhh.. So now it's first person for movement and, grid battles for battles. Very cool. I'll head to the GL part right away, let us know when you launch that KS..!
 

cvv

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Not following you. What part is FPS? Just the exploration and when you get into combat it's isometric tactical?

Yes, when you get into a combat the camera will switch to "iso".
The exploration mode is a realtime, non grid-based free roaming movement then?
Or is the whole game TB, Betrayal at Krondor style?

Can you show a gameplay video with the exploration part too?
 

Jasede

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Exploration is step-based realtime, as in Grimrock.
Combat is RoA-style, for now.

There was a video of the exploring earlier; maybe it's on the Steam greenlight website.
 

evdk

comrade troglodyte :M
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Codex 2012 Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Exploration is step-based realtime, as in Grimrock.
Combat is RoA-style, for now.

There was a video of the exploring earlier; maybe it's on the Steam greenlight website.
Yeah, for now.
Their design vision seems to be in the state of constant flux.
 
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