Squeenix Spoony plays Final Fantasy XIII

[felipepepe]

It seemed to me, that the script was incomplete, but they've decided to roll with it.

Actually the big issue was the massive overhaul they did on the story... originally there no Tidus-clone (Vaan), just Balthier, the charismatic pirate as main character. However, Square thought jap audience wound't like a game with an older protagonist and added the shibuya boy, tidus clone and overall retard vann to the story; that's why he has absolutly no purpose in the plot.

Also, while FFXII regular edition had a skill tree inferior to X, anyone who played FFXII - International Zodiac release will probably agree with me that is the best class system in the series, as it adds 12 classes and 12 different upgrade boards to the game.

 

[Whisky]

I heard there was also plans to make Basch the main character as well.

Balthier was a bro, it's really too bad he wasn't the main character.

 

[Weierstraß]

"Worst writing ever" he says, wearing a Mass Effect shirt.

I actually like jumping into something and understanding nothing. Sometimes you just have to give the world time to be explained instead of expecting everything to be explained in the earliest parts of the game. XIII is still stupid in many ways, but instead of focusing on those he pays attention to a bunch of pointless details. Clearly people exiled to Pulse are put in those robes, what they are and why is really completely irrelevant.

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

"Worst writing ever" he says, wearing a Mass Effect shirt.

I actually like jumping into something and understanding nothing. Sometimes you just have to give the world time to be explained instead of expecting everything to be explained in the earliest parts of the game. XIII is still stupid in many ways, but instead of focusing on those he pays attention to a bunch of pointless details. Clearly people exiled to Pulse are put in those robes, what they are and why is really completely irrelevant.

The writing in FFXIII certainly wasn't good, but it was no worse than your average mediocre JRPG writing. JRPGs put far less emphasis on plausibility generally.

I actually didn't think FFXIII was that bad. I enjoyed it more than IX at least (although that's not saying much). It fails as an rpg, but if you expect it to be a non-rpg its not bad. Some of the more difficult optional fights, where you had to think through your party role presets and react quickly in shifting through them, were like a pretty fun tactical/rhythm game hybrid. The music was pretty excellent as well.

If the game had been trolling FF fandom, it would have been a pretty brilliant example of the form. It gives people the things they love in a game, but taken to such an absurd extreme that they hate the final product: it takes the creeping linearity of the genre to its logical conclusion, but removes any semblance of fake choice; has a level-up system so gimmicky that its superficiality is immediately apparent; and it replaces the towns whose primary non-story attraction has become a place to buy better weapons at interchangeable stores with a menu to shop online at the same stores throughout the game.

 

[Sul]

It seemed to me, that the script was incomplete, but they've decided to roll with it.

Actually the big issue was the massive overhaul they did on the story... originally there no Tidus-clone (Vaan), just Balthier, the charismatic pirate as main character. However, Square thought jap audience wound't like a game with an older protagonist and added the shibuya boy, tidus clone and overall retard vann to the story; that's why he has absolutly no purpose in the plot.

Also, while FFXII regular edition had a skill tree inferior to X, anyone who played FFXII - International Zodiac release will probably agree with me that is the best class system in the series, as it adds 12 classes and 12 different upgrade boards to the game.

Basch was supposed to be the main character, not Balthier. The setting was also more medieval like Vagrant Story and Final Fantasy Tactics instead of desert people with light skin wearing metal jackets so they can toast under the sun.

 

[Delterius]

"Worst writing ever" he says, wearing a Mass Effect shirt.

I actually like jumping into something and understanding nothing. Sometimes you just have to give the world time to be explained instead of expecting everything to be explained in the earliest parts of the game. XIII is still stupid in many ways, but instead of focusing on those he pays attention to a bunch of pointless details. Clearly people exiled to Pulse are put in those robes, what they are and why is really completely irrelevant.

Actually, I gave some thought into it. A bit of suspense is always good, especially in a RPG and you want to give the player some sense that there's a world beyond his character. The most recent game I felt that is Dark Souls (still playing it) which, in contrast, is very subtle in its writing.

But I think this can be frustrating in a game like Final Fantasy, especially one that takes the "cinematic focus" to its logical conclusion. Way too much time throwing words around that mean nothing. Worse, FF XIII, it seems, doesn't even give you expository dialogue, it expects you to read the glossary. Even BioWare, with its exposition clumsily patched into dialogue, is above that.

And maybe the Mass Effect shirt is part of the parody. He used to have a Highlander II poster behind him until its review. Though maybe he just likes Mass Effect.

Basch was supposed to be the main character, not Balthier. The setting was also more medieval like Vagrant Story and Final Fantasy Tactics instead of desert people with light skin wearing metal jackets so they can toast under the sun.

I'm curious, any more info on that?

 

[Sul]

Basch was supposed to be the main character, not Balthier. The setting was also more medieval like Vagrant Story and Final Fantasy Tactics instead of desert people with light skin wearing metal jackets so they can toast under the sun.

I'm curious, any more info on that?

From Wikipedia:

Basch was initially meant to be the main character of the story, but the focus was eventually shifted to Vaan and Penelo when the two characters were created later in developmentThe development team explained that their previous game, Vagrant Story, which featured a "strong man in his prime" as the protagonist had been unsuccessful and unpopular; the change regarding Final Fantasy XII from a "big and tough" protagonist to a younger, youthful one was thus decided after targeting demographics were considered.

The change of setting is more of a guess made by fans, mostly because of Basch's armor and the fact the game is set on Ivalice, which in past games was predominantly medieval-like.

 

[Delterius]

The change of setting is more of a guess made by fans, mostly because of Basch's armor and the fact the game is set on Ivalice, which in past games was predominantly medieval-like.

That was precisely what caught my interest, and that guess does make sense. I do wonder the limits of extracting "sense" from Square Enix' latest clothes design.

 

[Undead Phoenix]

Substituting a database for real exposition is shit. And reading a wiki on your pc is easier than using a TV to read one.

Do you really need that the characters explain to you, throught a exposition dialog, why the plants in a forest are made of crystal? Or what is the purpose of a robe some people wear? IMHO that sounds like a obsession of someone who spends to much time reading PnP extra books... and even if you need to, small database uodates occour throught the game, so you can just press select and read a small introdutory text about the new are/foe you are seeing. It seems way easier to me than getting up and turning on your PC to google the exact same text each time you have a doubt. Does he also google book footnotes instead or reading then?

This is more of a film based quality, but in all media you need to show and not tell. Having to require to externally check a source to explain the basics of a story is, and always has been, the mark of utterly shite writing by a complete hack.

 

[Weierstraß]

It was a while since I played it, but I seem to remember getting my head around the basics eventually, although there are parts that remain unexplained. It's not criticizing it for not explaining the setting that gets me, it's criticizing it for not explaining the setting right now. It's alright to leave the player confused for a while.

I don't know if you've ever watched a movie with this type of person, but it's annoying.

"What is that?"
"I don't know, it hasn't been explained yet."
"Why did he do that?"
"I don't know, maybe we'll find out in the movie."
"Who is that? What is he doing now? What time is it?"
"You'd know if you watched the movie!"

 

[tuluse]

He played the entire game and complained about things that weren't explained outside of the database.

 

[felipepepe]

He played the entire game and complained about things that weren't explained outside of the database.

Extremely dumb and obvious things, like the fucking robes... no it doesn't explain the robes per se, but it says that those marked by the fal'cie and hunted and exiled. It does not require a impressive intelected or logic to understand that those people were exiles and that was the cerimonial robe for exiles... with all the issues and curiosities in FFXIII, seeing a guy rant on the fucking robes for 10 minutes is completly retarded.

 

[tuluse]

Which raises the question that he asks, why didn't they take the robes off once free from the train?

Edit: also he clearly meant the whole robe section to be funny and was not meant as a serious criticism. Personally I thought it worked.

 

[felipepepe]

Edit: also he clearly meant the whole robe section to be funny and was not meant as a serious criticism. Personally I thought it worked.

I can't argue humour tastes, but IMHO is such a dumb choice on such a abundant game... Snow's coat giving him super-powers it's a way better target than NPC's ROBES!

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

Edit: also he clearly meant the whole robe section to be funny and was not meant as a serious criticism. Personally I thought it worked.

I can't argue humour tastes, but IMHO is such a dumb choice on such a abundant game... Snow's coat giving him super-powers it's a way better target than NPC's ROBES!

To be fair, he did rag on Snow. Although it was just about his ability to punch giant cyborg animals to death (which actually seems pretty metal when I type it out).

He completely ignored the biggest targe; Snow's ridiculously creepy pedo-engagement to Lightning's apparently 12 year old sister.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

It was a while since I played it, but I seem to remember getting my head around the basics eventually, although there are parts that remain unexplained. It's not criticizing it for not explaining the setting that gets me, it's criticizing it for not explaining the setting right now. It's alright to leave the player confused for a while.

I don't know if you've ever watched a movie with this type of person, but it's annoying.

"What is that?"
"I don't know, it hasn't been explained yet."
"Why did he do that?"
"I don't know, maybe we'll find out in the movie."
"Who is that? What is he doing now? What time is it?"
"You'd know if you watched the movie!"

I made the mistake of watching the third Pirates of the Caribbean movie with kids (you know, part of the intended audience). Had to withstand two hours of the above.

 

[Jick Magger]

It was a while since I played it, but I seem to remember getting my head around the basics eventually, although there are parts that remain unexplained. It's not criticizing it for not explaining the setting that gets me, it's criticizing it for not explaining the setting right now. It's alright to leave the player confused for a while.

I don't know if you've ever watched a movie with this type of person, but it's annoying.

"What is that?"
"I don't know, it hasn't been explained yet."
"Why did he do that?"
"I don't know, maybe we'll find out in the movie."
"Who is that? What is he doing now? What time is it?"
"You'd know if you watched the movie!"

Laying down the basics as soon as possible should be the number one aim for any storywriter. You need to hook your audience in the first 20 or so minutes of your film (or if it's an RPG, the first 4-5 hours) so that they become invested in whatever story you're setting up. Don't do that, and they'll just get bored and wander off. It's still lazy storywriting if you don't even think that laying down the bare essentials necessary for the player to understand the severity of, say, a character reassuring a bystander that he's not a "Fal'Cie", as soon as you can is important. It would be like if they didn't explain who Sauron was, what the one rings of power were, and why he was after it until the halfway point of Fellowship of the Ring.

 

[felipepepe]

Fal'Cie and other story points are explained quite quickly in-game; about 1-2 hours in and you're already on your epic quest to fulfill the Fal'cie mission and save Serah, and the database on them is available right when you start the game.

Fluff stuff like why forests are made of crystal or whatever need little or no explanation; Spoony has a very narrow and literal mind if a minor unexplained detail while playing a Final FANTASY game leads him to suspension of disbelief...

 

[RK47]

YOU ARE THE LIVING ONE
THE INCARNATION OF NASRUDDIN!
THE ONE WORSHIPPED BY THE PANAARI!
THE ONE THAT IS REBORN FROM THE WINGS OF FIRE!

 

[Ermm]

And maybe the Mass Effect shirt is part of the parody. He used to have a Highlander II poster behind him until its review. Though maybe he just likes Mass Effect.

Basch was supposed to be the main character, not Balthier. The setting was also more medieval like Vagrant Story and Final Fantasy Tactics instead of desert people with light skin wearing metal jackets so they can toast under the sun.

I'm curious, any more info on that?

''

Have to dissapoint you, but he really likes Mass Effect. I think in one of his videos of E3, he referenced to Skyrim and Mass Effect as ''those awesome games. Also, he likes Gears of War.

 

[Delterius]

And maybe the Mass Effect shirt is part of the parody. He used to have a Highlander II poster behind him until its review. Though maybe he just likes Mass Effect.

Have to dissapoint you, but he really likes Mass Effect. I think in one of his videos of E3, he referenced to Skyrim and Mass Effect as ''those awesome games. Also, he likes Gears of War.

Well, it does make sense that he's a fan of Mass Effect, given that BioWare and Square Enix have so much in common - both in glory and disgrace. Both present themselves (or, in the case of Squeenix, mostly their fanbase) as great storytellers and both were "brought down" (or deeply changed) by a cinematic focus and the development of tech. I do have this theory of how he was butthurt over ME's endings and the whole thing was a parody.

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

I think being butthurt over the ending of ME3 is as disreputable as being a fan of the game. After all the butthurt comes from people feeling let down by a game they once loved.

 

[SearchEngine]

Spoony defended Mass Effect 3's endings and insulted the fanbase for being butthurt over it. http://www.twitch.tv/spoonyone/b/312765460 Granted that this video is months ago, and he probably could've changed his mind now.

 

[Zeriel]

I think being butthurt over the ending of ME3 is as disreputable as being a fan of the game. After all the butthurt comes from people feeling let down by a game they once loved.

I don't think you have to love something to be irritated by something being hugely inconsistent or just mediocre. I mean, film critics don't have to love David Lynch's older films to criticize his newer ones, as a quick example.

 

[Azrael the cat]

I'm one of those people who fnds that child/teenage protagonists make the game unplayable. Nonetheless, I've never understood why games that use teenage protagonists don't go for the obvious character arc and have the character age and reach their prime over the course of the game, allowing a coming of age element to the story. Particularly if they're going to insist on shoving shitty daddy-issue 'romances' into the game, a coming of age element might actually make that not so jarring. You could also do some interesting things with villains that way - I'm thinking of how Joffrey in ASoFaI grows from insecure kid to bloodthirsty tyrant.