Gold Box SSI's Gold Box Series Thread

[Erebus]

I'm thinking of finally playing the FR Gold Box games. PoR, unlike the other three, only allows the four basic classes, so I guess I'll create a party for PoR and then a new one for the rest of the series.

What I'd like to know is : how often are a thief's non-combat abilities useful ? I seem to remember that they can be helpful in PoR, but what about the other three games ? In the Krynn trilogy, I managed well without any thief, so I'd like to know if it's also possible in the FR series.

 

[octavius]

What I'd like to know is : how often are a thief's non-combat abilities useful ? I seem to remember that they can be helpful in PoR, but what about the other three games ? In the Krynn trilogy, I managed well without any thief, so I'd like to know if it's also possible in the FR series.

Very rarely; a single class Thief is useless. But a backstabbing Fighter/Thief or two will be very useful in Curse of the Azure Bonds. There are places where spamming Fireballs, rest, rinse and repeat just won't work.

 

[dragonbait]

There's a place in the Zhentil Keep during Curse of the Azure Bonds that it definitely helps to have a thief in order to pick pockets. But it is not really necessary, just convenient. I don't remember needing thieves beyond that. I'm pretty sure a Dwarf Fighter/Thief could be sufficient in future games.

 

[kmonster]

You don't need a thief in any of the Goldbox games.

In PoR you get an additional option with a thief in the party at a quest but it's only the second best of 3 options.
In CotAB you can climb up somewhere to see something but it won't change anything.
In SotSB some loot in chests will be destroyed if you don't disarm the trap.
In PoD there's an optional special challenge after beating the game you can't solve without a thief in the party (but you could save the game, reload and swap a party member for a thief for this location).

 

[Jaesun]

I liked the creepiness of the derelict ship at the start of Countdown

THAT was awesome.

 

[Erebus]

New question : is taking non-human PCs worth it if you're going to play the whole FR series with the same party ? Their level caps seem very low (except as thieves, strangely enough) and, even with multi-classing, I suspect it would become a serious problem during the last two games.

 

[TigerKnee]

FR = POR, CoTAB, SoSB and POD? Then I would say no.

Though if you're going to play the entire thing with the same party, does that mean you don't care about not having Paladins and Rangers?

 

[Erebus]

Though if you're going to play the entire thing with the same party, does that mean you don't care about not having Paladins and Rangers?

I just haven't made up my mind yet. It feels cooler to play the whole series with the same party, yet it's also true that it means being limited to the four basic classes and that making sure that none of my PCs will stop being useful along the way is going to be a pain.

 

[TigerKnee]

If you don't mind that it's cheating, there's also the option of using the program a couple of pages back that allows you to remove the level caps on demi-humans.

 

[octavius]

New question : is taking non-human PCs worth it if you're going to play the whole FR series with the same party ? Their level caps seem very low (except as thieves, strangely enough) and, even with multi-classing, I suspect it would become a serious problem during the last two games.

Among the demi-humans only Half-Elf or Dwarf Fighter/Thieves with enough STR to reach lvl 7 as Fighters are worth it. They will never get 2 attacks per round, but 1.5 backstabs per round will be useful even in most of Pools of Darkness, especially against all those Drows and Rakshakas.

 

[Dorateen]

This topic comes up often, so I just want to comment. A high-constitution dwarf fighter, capped at level 13, will still have more hit points than most humans far above his level. A 13th level fighter will still get his two attacks every round. A dwarf’s saving throws are superior, especially against poison. (Hello, Pet O’ Kalistes…. Come get some!)
I managed to play through Pools of Darkness just fine with non-human party members, in fact, three of them.

 

[Erebus]

Thanks for the advice. I'll think about it.

 

[octavius]

This topic comes up often, so I just want to comment. A high-constitution dwarf fighter, capped at level 13, will still have more hit points than most humans far above his level. A 13th level fighter will still get his two attacks every round. A dwarf’s saving throws are superior, especially against poison. (Hello, Pet O’ Kalistes…. Come get some!)
I managed to play through Pools of Darkness just fine with non-human party members, in fact, three of them.

Uh...you can only reach maximum level 9 as a Dwarf Fighter in the Pool games.
Are you sure you're not confusing with Dark Queen of Krynn?

 

[Dorateen]

No, you're right, octavius. For a moment, I thought I had imported the character from Secret of the Silver Blades with exceptional strength (20) and was able to train to level 13. That would have been consistent with the racial limitation chart from Unearthed Arcana. For some reason, that number 13 sticks out.

But then I checked the notebook I had kept, and right before the final battle with Gothmenes, I recorded the saving throws for all the party members. Mine were 8 and 11, which falls in line with 9th level from the table in the Dungeon Master's Guide.

Still, even better. Bane's leiutenants were beat by a 9th level dwarf. Ha!

 

[weirwood]

For Pools of Darkness, a half-elf fighter/thief (8/unlimited) is pretty pointless compared to a dwarf (9/unlimited). There's a jump in THAC0 and saving throws from 7/8 to 9, FWIW.

There's an argument to be made for an elf fighter/mage/thief (7/11/unlimited), however. It's also a decent character if you're starting with the earlier games.

 

[elodman]

Ave

1- By removing level caps for non-humans - with GoldBox companion proggy -, do you think the 4 games (Pool to Pools) can be nicely played? (or at least from CoTB)

2- cca max HP all with 18 const at level up (PoR, amiga - dont like this version, restarting on PC):
fighter - 14
fig/cle - 7/6
fig/mag - 5/4
fig/thie - 7/4

So, only a Fig / cleric can have near similar HP as a pure Fig, but even with him, that meant 30 hp difference compared to a pure Fig, at 80k exp. Not too fine.
How much exp do you estimate to be gained overall in PoR?

3- Now gonna try 5 party members, which means less monsters and exp but quicker combat. Would it be fine?

perhaps: 2x Fig, 1 thief-mage, 2x fig-cler-mage

(in the slums, for 6 party members sometimes 3 times bigger random battles are granted, I tried it in PC ver.)

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Comment on (multi)thief in PoR:
I think a (hired) thief was necessary to descend to a well to find some unique treasure (gauntlet of ...), but his backstab was nearly useless - too much preparation and no Big Bosses! (at cca 70% of game, when gathered 80k exp.)
For later games though, wanna import a multi thief, as read comments.
(octavius, thy cat picture gone?)
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Thanx if ya respond.

 

[Erebus]

Started playing PoR. Having a party of level 1 PCs is pain, especially since wizards don't get bonus spells as in the Krynn series.

 

[octavius]

Comment on (multi)thief in PoR:
I think a (hired) thief was necessary to descend to a well to find some unique treasure (gauntlet of ...), but his backstab was nearly useless - too much preparation and no Big Bosses! (at cca 70% of game, when gathered 80k exp.)
For later games though, wanna import a multi thief, as read comments.

Yeah, backstabbing is rather useless in PoR for two reasons:
1. The mechanics are different - you need two regular attacks before you can backstab.
2. The backstab multiplier is rather low for such low level characters.
OTOH, in PoR you can backstab any enemy of any size, including dragons, while in the later games you are restricted to enemies occupying only one square.

(octavius, thy cat picture gone?)

Only on the RPG Codex, thanks to the Great Avatar Purge.

 

[Erebus]

My two mages can now cast Stinking Cloud, which is good since Sleep isn't going to remain useful for very long. Their HP unfortunately remain pathetic (though they can no longer be killed in a single hit by the slightest kobold) ; I really should have given them 16 in Constitution.

1. The mechanics are different - you need two regular attacks before you can backstab.

You mean that someone needs to attack a monster twice from a specific direction before the thief will be able to backstab from the opposite direction ?

 

[octavius]

1. The mechanics are different - you need two regular attacks before you can backstab.

You mean that someone needs to attack a monster twice from a specific direction before the thief will be able to backstab from the opposite direction ?

IIRC it was only the first one who needs to attack from a specific direction, then the second one attacks from a different direction, then the thief from opposite of the first attack, without the enemy acting in between.
If I don't RC the thief needs to attack from opposite of the second attack.

 

[Erebus]

A long time ago, I read the "Pool of Radiance" novel and I distinctly remember that Tyranthraxus wasn't immune to magic in it.

Do you hear me, Tyranthraxus ?!?!? You're not supposed to be immune to my spells !!!!

EDIT : Hah ! Eat that, you flaming lizard !

 

[Erebus]

Some time has passed and my elven cleric/wizard has retired from adventuring (she simply wasn't going to remain competitive for much longer) and been replaced by a manly ranger. My team is now : fighter, fighter/thief, ranger, cleric and two wizards.

Also, we've been Cursed with Azure Bonds ! Oh noes !

The game's pretty cool so far. I got rid of my first bond and am looking for the owners of the next three. I've been told to visit a wizard's tower, but I just can't find it. I found Moander's Pit, but I'm a bit worried my PCs might not be strong enough for that yet. Is there an order to follow as far as the owners of the bonds are concerned ? I'm pretty sure my fiery friend from PoR will come last, but what about the other three ?

 

[octavius]

Also, we've been Cursed with Azure Bonds ! Oh noes !

The game's pretty cool so far. I got rid of my first bond and am looking for the owners of the next three. I've been told to visit a wizard's tower, but I just can't find it. I found Moander's Pit, but I'm a bit worried my PCs might not be strong enough for that yet. Is there an order to follow as far as the owners of the bonds are concerned ? I'm pretty sure my fiery friend from PoR will come last, but what about the other three ?

The Red Wizard Dracandros should be number two. He's to the south of the central Standing Stone. Look for him in the village of Hap.
Then go to Moander's Pit, followed by Zhentil Keep. I once tried doing Moander's Pit second, but those large Zhenthil Terror Teams with buffed Wizards in the Yulash Ruins proved too strong.
It is possible to do it in another order (check crpgaddict's blog, for example), but it will require tedious save scumming and/or grinding.

 

[Erebus]

The Red Wizard Dracandros should be number two. He's to the south of the central Standing Stone. Look for him in the village of Hap.

All right, thanks ! I went to Hap already, but when I kept encountering drows, I thought it was the wrong place.

 

[Dorateen]

^That is what I suspected.

If there is an order, doing it out of step was much of the fun for me. I took on the Zhents, the Wizard and then Yulash. This led to some memorable frustration and challenging gameplay (yes, much grinding in the labyrinth below Zhentil Keep). In hindsight, should have gone to Dracandros first. But I really prize this open-ended aspect of the adventure.