Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order - action adventure from Respawn Entertainment

[zerotol]

Kotor II is an unfished pile.

The story builds up to a conclusion... which never comes because they didnt have the time to put it in the game. Instead the 'ending' (if you want to call it an ending, in my opinon the game just stops) is a quickly thrown together mess.

 

[DalekFlay]

Kotor II is an unfished pile.

The story builds up to a conclusion... which never comes because they didnt have the time to put it in the game. Instead the 'ending' (if you want to call it an ending, in my opinon the game just stops) is a quickly thrown together mess.

Yeah I actually just finished it. Even with the restored mod the ending is a rush to nothing. Kreia gonna kill the force! How? How are we stopping her? Why did she need me? Who knows! Just whack her with your lightsaber and all is well.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

DalekFlay you're welcome to join us
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...the-old-republic-will-kill-wow.67564/page-109

It's basically a KOTOR game with multiplayer attached. Not at all what I was expecting.

 

[JDR13]

DalekFlay you're welcome to join us
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...the-old-republic-will-kill-wow.67564/page-109

It's basically a KOTOR game with multiplayer attached. Not at all what I was expecting.

So it's a console-centric game with Star Wars trappings and mediocre combat?

 

[Strange Fellow]

I honestly think most people spurge over the story/writing because of Kreia being that cool edgy character 90's kids craved.

Hey now, the other companions are great too. In fact, I think KOTOR 2 has the best RPG cast, period. I don't agree with this at all:

lack of companion involvement outside a few

The game amazed me in particular with how many vignettes the companions had aboard the Ebon Hawk, and none stood out as having significantly fewer involvements than the others (Kreia obviously had more, though). Maybe Canderous, who is a little boring all around. Most of them are important to the story as well.

 

[DalekFlay]

DalekFlay you're welcome to join us
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...the-old-republic-will-kill-wow.67564/page-109

I did a playthrough when it first went free to play. Imperial Agent. It was kind of cool, but I hate MMO stuff too much to say I really enjoyed it. Maybe someday I'll do a lightside playthrough though.

The game amazed me in particular with how many vignettes the companions had aboard the Ebon Hawk, and none stood out as having significantly fewer involvements than the others (Kreia obviously had more, though). Maybe Canderous, who is a little boring all around. Most of them are important to the story as well.

I don't know what to tell ya, I just put 40 hours into it and had the opposite reaction. Kreia, Atton and maybe the bounter hunters got some good stuff but everyone else felt tacked on. None of them except Kreia really chimed in during conversations with NPCs. I wanted to use the blind chick a lot but her dialog options never changed or expanded, and though she got a cool moment toward the end with Nihilus she was an empty blanket the rest of the time. Maybe my expectations for companions have been raised by games like New Vegas, but it is what it is.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Got bored and uninstalled after the second planet. What a snoozefest.

Combat is neither flashy nor technically complex enough to hold interest on its own, nor is it rewarding enough to slog through. No items, no gear, no leveling to speak of and tons of tedious time-wasting puzzles everywhere. I don't play a jedi to push blocks around. Total missed opportunity. Game just made me want to play KoToR 2 again.

Face it, this game is barely above mediocre at best, it was praised because it's the only new star wars thing since forever.

 

[DalekFlay]

tons of tedious time-wasting puzzles everywhere. I don't play a jedi to push blocks around.

There's like 5 Tomb Raider style puzzles the whole game. The rest are all literally "push block then jump on it."

 

[JDR13]

I'm a little over 50% through at the moment, and I like it so far. The story and level design get better as you progress, and I've really enjoyed some of the set pieces. It's a very solid game if you enjoy metroidvanias.

Anyone who quit on the second planet barely scratched the surface of the game.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Anyone who quit on the second planet barely scratched the surface of the game.

I'm not impressed with 'time played' arguments because you'll also say if I finished the game I must have enjoyed it, otherwise I wouldn't have played it at all.

If a game can't be fun in the first 3-4 hours that's a fail, especially with a backlog of dozens of games. There are better star wars games.

Respawn has not made a melee action game before and it shows. They bizarrely chose to fuse Uncharted on-rails, mind-numbing platforming and tedious puzzle solving with Dark Souls combat minus all of the leveling, customization, and multiplayer. What is even the justification for the enemies respawning when you meditate? Did the curse of the First Flame affect the Empire? The leveling system is so simplistic it may as well not exist and all the gear is cosmetic. They should have aped Assassin's Creed or Batman instead.

Having just played Sekiro and The Surge 2 I can unequivocally say this is the worst of the three. Only to be played if you're an abject star wars junkie or really like uncanny-valley'd digitized ugly actors.

 

[JDR13]

I'm not impressed with 'time played' arguments because you'll also say if I finished the game I must have enjoyed it, otherwise I wouldn't have played it at all.

Whether or not someone finishes a game has nothing to do with what I said. I simply stated a fact. If you quit on the second planet, you saw very little of the overall content in the game. I wasn't implying that your opinion was any less because of that.

If a game can't be fun in the first 3-4 hours that's a fail, especially with a backlog of dozens of games. There are better star wars games.

A game being fun is completely subjective. You didn't like it, and that's cool. The majority would seem to disagree, but not everyone likes the same things. And yes, there are better Star Wars games, but those are more than a decade old and anyone who's a fan is likely to have already played them.

 

[DalekFlay]

Most of the complaints in this thread are about the game not being what people want it to be, rather than how well it executes on what it is. "No loot! No leveling! No open world!" It's not trying to be the types of game that have that stuff, at all.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Most of the complaints in this thread are about the game not being what people want it to be, rather than how well it executes on what it is. "No loot! No leveling! No open world!" It's not trying to be the types of game that have that stuff, at all.

It's trying to be Uncharted + Dark souls while missing key portions of both. So it's a bad game for what it is. Dark Souls with more platforming and all the RPG elements stripped out would be a dull game. Uncharted with a slow, dreary story and fugly actors would suck. Bam, that's Fallen Order.

 

[DalekFlay]

It's trying to be Uncharted + Dark souls while missing key portions of both. So it's a bad game for what it is. Dark Souls with more platforming and all the RPG elements stripped out would be a dull game. Uncharted with a slow, dreary story and fugly actors would suck. Bam, that's Fallen Order.

I don't play consolefag games, so I'll say Tomb Raider and Dark Souls. I think it's a decent combination of those, and so do most fans of those genres from what I've seen online. I'm not an expert though and rarely play these kinds of games, so whatever... if you don't like it then you don't like it.

 

[JDR13]

It's trying to be Uncharted + Dark souls while missing key portions of both. So it's a bad game for what it is. Dark Souls with more platforming and all the RPG elements stripped out would be a dull game. Uncharted with a slow, dreary story and fugly actors would suck. Bam, that's Fallen Order.

I don't play consolefag games, so I'll say Tomb Raider and Dark Souls. I think it's a decent combination of those, and so do most fans of those genres from what I've seen online. I'm not an expert though and rarely play these kinds of games, so whatever... if you don't like it then you don't like it.

I see a lot of Dark Souls comparisons, but, outside of the resting/respawn mechanic, I don't find it very similar to DS. I think the closest comparison is Metroid + Tomb Raider.

 

[DalekFlay]

I see a lot of Dark Souls comparisons, but, outside of the resting/respawn mechanic, I don't find it very similar to DS. I think the closest comparison is Metroid + Tomb Raider.

Metroid's a 2D or 3D shooter, so I don't get that at all. Tomb Raider covers the "Metroid style map design" since it does the same thing. Dark Souls comparisons are for parry and dodge heavy combat where you need to avoid damage, the respawn mechanic, the health flasks, the optional tougher enemies guarding best "loot" (in this case health upgrades and such), and it also had "Metroid style" level design. That's a lot of inspiration to be written off.

 

[JDR13]

I see a lot of Dark Souls comparisons, but, outside of the resting/respawn mechanic, I don't find it very similar to DS. I think the closest comparison is Metroid + Tomb Raider.

Metroid's a 2D or 3D shooter, so I don't get that at all. Tomb Raider covers the "Metroid style map design" since it does the same thing. Dark Souls comparisons are for parry and dodge heavy combat where you need to avoid damage, the respawn mechanic, the health flasks, the optional tougher enemies guarding best "loot" (in this case health upgrades and such), and it also had "Metroid style" level design. That's a lot of inspiration to be written off.

By "Metroid", I mean metroidvania. Judging by your "Metroid's a 2D or 3D shooter" comment though, I'm guessing you've never actually played a Metroid game.

I'm not writing the DS inspirations off, but Fallen Order is still more metroidvania than Dark Souls. Tomb Raider doesn't cover the map design unless the last couple of TR games, which are the only ones I haven't played, are dramatically different than all the other TR games. Even if that's the case, it only shows the influence metroidvanias have had on TR as well. One of the primary aspects of metroidvanias is that you can return to anywhere you had previously been in the game. You rarely, if ever, return to previous locations in TR. In fact, prior to the 2013 reboot, TR games were completely linear in that you advanced by finishing one location and then going to the next without ever returning. Where the TR influence comes in is the platforming and puzzles.

Combat has obvious similarities, but there are too many games nowadays that have this kind of combat to call them souls-clones because of it. Also, the difficulty isn't even close to souls level, and that's a primary aspect of being a souls-like. You also mentioned optional tougher bosses guarding the best loot, but I'm about 60% finished and have yet to see that in Fallen Order. The "loot", if you even want to call it that, is simply hidden in out-of-the-way nooks and crannies.

I get why people are saying souls-like though, and I don't have a problem with it. DS itself is an evolution of metroidvanias with the level-design and shortcuts. The difference is that areas are gated by enemies rather than needing a new power or upgrade to advance, and that's exactly why Fallen Order is more like a classic metroidvania.

 

[DalekFlay]

I'm not writing the DS inspirations off, but Fallen Order is still more metroidvania than Dark Souls. Tomb Raider doesn't cover the map design unless the last couple of TR games, which are the only ones I haven't played, are dramatically different than all the other TR games. Even if that's the case, it only shows the influence metroidvanias have had on TR as well. One of the primary aspects of metroidvanias is that you can return to anywhere you had previously been in the game. You rarely, if ever, return to previous locations in TR. In fact, prior to the 2013 reboot, TR games were completely linear in that you advanced by finishing one location and then going to the next without ever returning. Where the TR influence comes in is the platforming and puzzles.

The Tomb Raider games, since the reboot, are very "metroidvania." One long connected map where new items get you into new areas and you go back to old areas to get into new paths. I played a lot of 2D "metroidvanias" and Tomb Raider (reboot) is the same, as is stuff like Control and Fallen Order. I guess where I'm coming from is that combat, which is the overwhelming focus of the gameplay itself, is more Dark Souls-y, so I think it warrants a strong comparison. It does not have the RPG elements of Dark Souls though, so I get why people want to differentiate it.

 

[JDR13]

I'm not writing the DS inspirations off, but Fallen Order is still more metroidvania than Dark Souls. Tomb Raider doesn't cover the map design unless the last couple of TR games, which are the only ones I haven't played, are dramatically different than all the other TR games. Even if that's the case, it only shows the influence metroidvanias have had on TR as well. One of the primary aspects of metroidvanias is that you can return to anywhere you had previously been in the game. You rarely, if ever, return to previous locations in TR. In fact, prior to the 2013 reboot, TR games were completely linear in that you advanced by finishing one location and then going to the next without ever returning. Where the TR influence comes in is the platforming and puzzles.

The Tomb Raider games, since the reboot, are very "metroidvania." One long connected map where new items get you into new areas and you go back to old areas to get into new paths. I played a lot of 2D "metroidvanias" and Tomb Raider (reboot) is the same, as is stuff like Control and Fallen Order. I guess where I'm coming from is that combat, which is the overwhelming focus of the gameplay itself, is more Dark Souls-y, so I think it warrants a strong comparison. It does not have the RPG elements of Dark Souls though, so I get why people want to differentiate it.

Huh? Combat is not the overwhelming focus in Fallen Order. You spend just as much time, if not more, platforming and puzzle-solving than you do in combat.

 

[DalekFlay]

Huh? Combat is not the overwhelming focus in Fallen Order. You spend just as much time, if not more, platforming and puzzle-solving than you do in combat.

Well agree to disagree, I definitely feel like combat was much more a focus than anything else. And whatever the percentages Tomb Raider traversal plus Dark Souls combat is how I'd describe the game, but it's all pretty minor differences in classification not worth worrying about.

 

[Necroscope]

Is combat in this game even remotely as fun as in Jedi Outcast?

 

[cosmicray]

I've been playing KotOR 2 the last couple weeks believe it or not, and with the restored mod for the first time. Pretty much every time I look up what was restored after finishing an area it was something annoying that didn't need to be there. It pads out the game for no real benefit for the most part. Even the added dialog often feels superfluous and edited in.

That said I'm not at the ending yet, which is supposedly where the good stuff is.

I would say that, aside from that stupid droid planet*, restored/patched content made the game/story better. But it was a long time ago(in a far away galaxy... sorry), that I can't remember much to argue for or against it.

* - I knew the planet was never close to being finished, but I was curious to try playing with it. It was a grave mistake - what a barebones boredom that was.

 

[DemonKing]

Is combat in this game even remotely as fun as in Jedi Outcast?

It's a strange beast - the game throws piles of basic foes at you that can be slaughtered with joyful ease using the lightsaber or force powers and then throws bosses at you that up the difficulty completely disproportionately. I finally beat the end boss last night after about 20 tries. Every time I died my first thought was "cheating bitch" because I didn't feel I'd made mistakes but rather the AI was pulling off ridiculous moves that I couldn't counter and meant instant death. I guess the game does allow you to alter the difficulty on the fly though which isn't possible in DS games so you are unlikely to ever get stumped for long.

The parry system is awful though compared to Sekiro and is barely worth using in most circumstances, but there's some fun to be had with force pushing enemies off ledges or deflecting back their laser bolts.

 

[DalekFlay]

I would say that, aside from that stupid droid planet*, restored/patched content made the game/story better. But it was a long time ago(in a far away galaxy... sorry), that I can't remember much to argue for or against it.

For the record I'm not saying it's a bad mod, just that the "it saves KotOR2 and makes it feel more finished!" stuff is way overblown. It still feels like a 75% finished game.

 

[JDR13]

Huh? Combat is not the overwhelming focus in Fallen Order. You spend just as much time, if not more, platforming and puzzle-solving than you do in combat.

Well agree to disagree, I definitely feel like combat was much more a focus than anything else. And whatever the percentages Tomb Raider traversal plus Dark Souls combat is how I'd describe the game, but it's all pretty minor differences in classification not worth worrying about.

Sure. I just think it's odd that you would attempt to claim that combat is an "overwhelming" focus when it's obviously not, but to each his own.

As far as what the game is, it's a metroidvania with both Tomb Raider and Dark Souls influences.