Starfield Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[PorkyThePaladin]

If you think Witcher games are clones of Skyrim...

 

[OSK]

If you think Witcher games are clones of Skyrim...

Of course not. Twitcher 3 has a fixed protagonist.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Yeah, it also has a few other things that Skyrim doesn't: great writing and lore, great characters, great graphics, serviceable combat, great C&C, etc.

 

[Late Bloomer]

105 pages...

Remind me again, what is the appeal of Bethesda games? Shit combat, shit graphics, shit writing, shit character development, shit C&C, shit world-building, shit exploration.

Lets go through this list

Lets include Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3 & Fallout 4

What game does combat, graphics, writing, character development, c&c, world building, exploration all in one package better?

Define world building

List five games that you have played with better world building.

What makes for good exploration?

List five games with better exploration

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

105 pages...

Remind me again, what is the appeal of Bethesda games? Shit combat, shit graphics, shit writing, shit character development, shit C&C, shit world-building, shit exploration.

Lets go through this list

Lets include Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3 & Fallout 4

What game does combat, graphics, writing, character development, c&c, world building, exploration all in one package better?

Gothic, Gothic 2, Risen, ELEX, Breath of the Wild, Witcher 3, Fallout: New Vegas, Kingdom Come: Deliverance...

Define world building

List five games that you have played with better world building.

Gothic, Gothic 2, Risen, ELEX, Breath of the Wild, Witcher 3, Fallout: New Vegas, Kingdom Come: Deliverance...

What makes for good exploration?

List five games with better exploration

Gothic, Gothic 2, Risen, ELEX, Breath of the Wild, Fallout: New Vegas

 

[RobotSquirrel]

What game does combat, graphics, writing, character development, c&c, world building, exploration all in one package better?

Wizardry (most of them), Ultima (pretty much all of them except 8 and 9), Might and Magic (most of them), Albion, and for the biggest insult I'm going to include The Quest on Mobile because its funny that a mobile game is better than most of the games Bethesda has put out.

 

[Late Bloomer]

 

[Dadd]

I know you are but what am I?

 

[RobotSquirrel]

I know you are but what am I?

I'm shaking I'm shaking.

 

[Yosharian]

What game does combat, graphics, writing, character development, c&c, world building, exploration all in one package better?

Wizardry (most of them), Ultima (pretty much all of them except 8 and 9), Might and Magic (most of them), Albion, and for the biggest insult I'm going to include The Quest on Mobile because its funny that a mobile game is better than most of the games Bethesda has put out.

Oh come on.

 

[Robotigan]

Remind me again, what is the appeal of Bethesda games? Shit combat, shit graphics, shit writing, shit character development, shit C&C, shit world-building, shit exploration.

They have the budget, development resources, technology, and motivation to make genuinely ambitious games. Even the self-proclaimed haters wind up playing Bethesda titles because the engine's so flexible, all their mandated gameplay "fixes" only take a couple weeks to mod in. Then they'll log the most playtime of any RPG they've played in the past several years, but excuse it as "mindless time killing" so they don't look bad in front of their nerd buddies.

 

[Nikanuur]

105 pages...

Remind me again, what is the appeal of Bethesda games? Shit combat, shit graphics, shit writing, shit character development, shit C&C, shit world-building, shit exploration.

I won't argue about the rest because half of it can be true and for the other half you seem rather ill with shit-shilling, so what's the use. But for the others: Exploration in games = being rewarded for looking round the corner and inspecting the environment. Something stashed in suspicious crevices, hidden boxes one sees only when looking thoroughly, messages near corpses that start a new quest leading to good equipment--again, only if you look close enough a good enough, things like this are in Bethesda's games in abundance.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I know you are but what am I?

I'm shaking I'm shaking.

Hello shaking I'm shaking, nice to meet you.

 

[Fargus]

105 pages...

Remind me again, what is the appeal of Bethesda games? Shit combat, shit graphics, shit writing, shit character development, shit C&C, shit world-building, shit exploration.

modding

 

[Norfleet]

It's like, yeah, this game is shit for X dollars, but sort of okay if you pirate it. It doesn't make any sense. Why would shit taste better if it's free?

Science. The satisfaction you get out of something is equal to the cost of the thing minus what you pay for it. There's an economics term for this that escapes me at the moment. This is why money can't buy happiness: If you pay the cost of a thing to get the thing, your satisfaction is zero. As the saying of my people goes, "Stolen food tastes the best.". Therefore, if you pay $80 to get a thing that's $80, your satisfaction level is zero and this exercise was not worth it. But if you get it for free, because Pirate Cat won't pay for his downloads, you get that value for nothing, so it might be worthwhile.

 

[Zombra]

Remind me again, what is the appeal of Bethesda games?

They do one thing better than almost any RPG out there: give the player a framework to build the kind of character they want to play. Then they provide a huge world filled with a myriad of scenarios and situations to run the characters through, with very different play experiences available depending on build and playstyle. They don't quite reach true "immersive sim" levels in freedom of approach, but this is vastly more than compensated for by the depth of the character systems. I'm thinking mostly of Skyrim here, with its innovative and superior "learn by doing" advancement mechanics, and quite a few noncombat skills. I built four completely different characters in Skyrim, and enjoyed dozens of hours with each, often pursuing the same quests in completely different ways. Morrowind, although hampered by a more traditional "get xp and spend skill points" advancement system, still allowed for a great variety of meaningfully distinct builds. Fallout 4 was a big disappointment in comparison, as the game is so geared towards combat that there seems to be no point in trying more than a single character. (Even the Charisma perks are combat-focused.)

I don't know yet whether Starfield will offer me the character variety I crave. For example that early video showing "guy walking forward clicking on things to make them die" was not an encouraging sign that a less "killing stuff" focused character will be viable. Maybe this will be nothing more than a glorified shooter, or maybe different builds and playstyles will really let me shape each playthrough to my own taste. I'm certainly still interested to find out.

 

[Hace El Oso]

Remind me again, what is the appeal of Bethesda games?

Bethesda games are good at tempting me with the familiar (if faint) scent of freedom(Morrowind delivered it for real). Like standing in a train station with your bag but never being allowed to get on a train.

 

[Gargaune]

Well, one's a dumb scavver who probably can't even spell "book" and the other is, presumably; since they even know what it was like "back in the day", a ghoul who was actually there.

No, she's just just a regular old woman.

I know you get reddit updoots for shitting on Fallout 4 right here on the dex, but at least know what the fuck you are talking about if something is your favorite example. [...]

Clair has been manager of the Hotel Rexford since 2247 and remembers the time when the place was in its heyday; when parties were thrown frequently and the clientele was more sophisticated. She is tasked with greeting and checking people in while her boss, Marowski, stays in his "office." Clair, along with a few others, helps keep the place running and will offer to give a verbal history of the hotel and the surrounding area.

I do know that backstory and you're not helping your point. Clair explicitly mentions retirement and how the Rexford was so much better back in Marowski Sr.'s days and how, as you quote, the clientele was more "sophisticated." This is easy for us to parse relative to our own reality, but highly incongruous in the postapocalyptic wasteland we're shown. Does Goodneighbor have a pension plan? How much "more sophisticated" can the clientele get in a world where caravaners strap bags to cows instead of leveraging the forbidden magic of the wheel?

Clair Hutchins is consistent with a setting that still has a memory of, and a reflex to emulate, pre-War America. Whereas the scavver I mentioned hasn't, even by accident in her thirty or fourty years of life, learned about "America." These two people are in relatively close proximity. Sure, you could argue happenstance and social stratification, maybe that scavver just wandered in from postapocalyptic Bumsville, but inconsistent worldbuilding is a pervasive failure with Bethesda's take on Fallout. Diamond City has a school where they presumably teach old stuff, but the guy in the market thinks baseball was the Circus Maximus. Dr. Amari in Goodneighbor is established to be a doctor, in fact she's a "a scientist specializing in the human brain"... How? She's never said to be a former Vault dweller nor an Institute deserter, so how was she educated? A question that the Sole Survivor can literally put to the traveling caravan surgeon - "Are you a real doctor?" - but the writers never addressed for themselves. And this writing issue permeates right down to gameplay aspects, such as how you come across untouched suitcases and pre-War safes, only to find pipe pistols and raider armour within. Fallout 3 had melons at the Super Duper Mart... That's some strong preservatives, bro. It also had Tenpenny Tower, a "luxury" retreat for those evil, evil rich people... who live in the middle of nowhere with no ostensible source to their wealth, under the roof of a man who "came over from Britain." In what, a fucking balloon?

Anyway, I could go on but you get the point - Bethesda never resolved the logical progression of Fallout's setting and timeline, the worldbuilding is surface level only and this creates recurring, irritating problems. New Vegas did a generally better job of this, depicting large scale, working societies with some degree of internal logic, though Bethesda clearly didn't pay much attention to Obsidian's side title. Starfield's going to be an interesting moment in this department because, as they've stated themselves, it's their first new, original IP in decades, so we'll see if they do better with a clean slate. But the smart money is on you finding space toothpaste inside a space crab's gut on an unexplored planet.

Now, look, I both love and hate Bethesda's games. It's an abusive relationship and I'm the battered housewife. I know Todd only hurts me because he loves me... but he does hurt me. He does, Late Bloomer.

Gothic, Gothic 2, Risen, ELEX, [...] Fallout: New Vegas, Kingdom Come: Deliverance...

Rephrase the question to "Who else does what Bethesda does?" and you get Piranha Bytes, Obsidian while aping Bethesda, and Warhorse Studios. That's why Bethesda's games are so popular, because they're near enough the only ones making that particular kind of game.

 

[Late Bloomer]

My favourite example is how one of the scavvers around the robot sailship can ask you something like "America? What's that, some old world mumbo jumbo?", whereas two clicks over, the receptionist at the Rexford is talking about how you "should've seen the place back in the day" and that this isn't how she envisioned her retirement. I didn't realise Goodneighbor had a pension plan, that's nice of 'em. I think there was some speculation about about the timeline changing during development, but I'm not sure it ain't just plain old negligence.

You wrote this.

Then you come back days later after doing a little research to save face and get your reddit updoots. One out of two aint bad.

 

[Gargaune]

You wrote this.

Then you come back days later after doing a little research to save face and get your reddit updoots. One out of two aint bad.

What I wrote previously was simply a more concise version of my post above, didn't first think it needed too much detail since I was illustrating a well known problem with Bethesda's worldbuilding. As for my timing, I gather from your reply that Codexposting is serious business to you, but some of us do have other shit to do on occasion.

 

[Harthwain]

You wrote this.

Then you come back days later after doing a little research to save face and get your reddit updoots. One out of two aint bad.

What's your point? I find it beneficial that an internet forum allows you to respond without having to worry about the unity of time, while on something like Reddit 2-3 days is a very long time by comparison.

 

[Late Bloomer]

What's your point? I find it beneficial that an internet forum allows you to respond without having to worry about the unity of time, while on something like Reddit 2-3 days is a very long time by comparison.

Thats a blanket statement. You are not taking into account the context of this one conversation. I agree that being able to have longform discussion is a huge part of being able to find enjoyment on a forum. That does not apply to every single conversation though.

I am not going to quote quotes and derail this shit any more than it already is but he used an example of something in which he clearly didn't exhaust all an NPC's lines of dialogue, didn't pay attention to not only an important sidequest, but the main story as well. If this dude is using something at his "favorite example" then I would expect a little more knowledge on the subject. He was simply joining the train of Bethesda/Fallout 4 hate searching for some pats on the back. I called him out on his lack of understading. The dude most likely logs back in and plays some more, goes to reddit, does a bit of research, and then gets back to write what amounts to an excuse for being ill informed and calls it a day. Gets some buttons and feels better about it all. Time is sometimes an element of conversations.

 

[Harthwain]

Thats a blanket statement. You are not taking into account the context of this one conversation.

I actually went back to see if I was missing something from your conversation. It didn't help much.

If this dude is using something at his "favorite example" then I would expect a little more knowledge on the subject. He was simply joining the train of Bethesda/Fallout 4 hate searching for some pats on the back. I called him out on his lack of understading. The dude most likely logs back in and plays some more, goes to reddit, does a bit of research, and then gets back to write what amounts to an excuse for being ill informed and calls it a day. Gets some buttons and feels better about it all.

Trying to accuse him of ill-intent by citing 2-day delay in response to your post to "research the subject in order to save face and get some buttons" sounds very convoluted. Way more convoluted than him simply expanding on what he meant after you responded by accusing him that he doesn't "know what the fuck he is talking about". Ockham's Razor and all that. And you're the one talking about people fishing for confirmation?

Time is sometimes an element of conversations.

In real-life or during chat, certainly. But on an internet forum? Less so. Evenmoreso considering that people have to work, take care of their family or there are real-life responsibilities that require their attention. Which is why I found it weird that you brought this aspect up at all.

 

[Late Bloomer]

Which is why I found it weird that you brought this aspect up at all.

Welcome to the internet.

 

[Harthwain]

Welcome to the internet.

Sure...? It's not me who has a problem with that here.