Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Starfield Thread - Shattered Space expansion coming September 30th

Caim

Arcane
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
16,809
Location
Dutchland

Lmao dude should just get a blog.

Twitter also has ways to post really long tweets now, like article length. Although maybe that is just a feature for paid accounts.

In general though, a company that makes a service or product excusing a product or service for being of lower quality than the consumer expected or not meeting the consumer expectations in some other way by saying making the product is hard to do is going to be poorly received by consumers and it is a bad excuse.

A lot of services are hard to provide and a lot of products are hard to make. Consumers don't care. The company needs to better manage consumer expectations of your product if you think there is a decent chance you won't meet those expectations. What makes companies good and stand out is solving those problems to provide good services and products despite the challenges faced.

And what helps restore consumer confidence is acknowledging the problems and having a plan for addressing them. Excuses certainly don't restore consumer confidence.

I'm in the electrical infrastructure business. You know what happens when people in our business fuck up the same way that Bethesda did with Starfield?

Rokende-hoogspanningsdraden-in-Flevoland-Rene-den-Braber.jpg


This picture is taken from an airplane. The long, thin line of smoke you see is what happenes when you stack up multiple mistakes regarding grounding, safety features and trip commands. September last year this line, normally fit to transport 150 kilovolts with a total capacity of well over 400 mVA, suffered a catastrophic fault that sent a current over these lines that was so staggeringly high the lines themselves started to smoke and expand, causing them to sag. One such sagging line touched the overhead line of a train, which normally operates at 1500 volts. The sheer power that was sent through these much thinner lines fried over 100 kilometers of cable in one of the country's connecting railway lines, putting the line out of commision for almost four months. The 150 kilovolt lines themselves were fried and had to be replaced across a distance of almost 20 kilometers and dozens of electrical pylons. The electrical fault that caused this only resolved itself when parts of the substations started to melt away, opening the circuit and allowing the safety features of other stations to shut it down. Damage has been estimated in the tens of millions, and through no small miracle nobody was injured.

Of course, such a catastrophic failure in a country's electrical grid does not compare to VIDEO GAME BAD, but in this business you don't get to drop a "job hard" and expect that to be it.
 

RobotSquirrel

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Aug 9, 2020
Messages
2,045
Location
Adelaide
Poor Emil. Guys we need to stop being so hard on him because he's stressed... This Game Development Stuff is REALLY REALLY hard! Turns out Keep It Simple Stupid didn't work so he's now changed to the La La La I'm Not Listening strategy.

Emil here's the problem with Bethesda, youre a bunch of nepotistic talent-less hacks. Daddy Altman isn't here to save your ass anymore. Bethesda can't even function now that it has Microsoft's "accountability" and I say that loosely because I've done work for them in the past.
 

Vic

Savant
Undisputed Queen of Faggotry Bethestard
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
5,678
Location
[REDACTED]
Seeing how we are still talking about this, here's his full rant for archival purposes and ease of access :cool:

Funny how disconnected some players are from the realities of game development, and yet they speak with complete authority. I mean, I can guess what it takes to make a Hostess Twinkie, but I don't work in the factory, so what the hell do I really know? Not a lot.

Part of me really gets it. When you're a consumer and spend money on things, that gives you the right to complain about those things. I spend a LOT of money on games every year, and sometimes it takes a lot for me not to scream into the internet's collective consciousness.

I don't complain about games on social for two main reasons: 1.) I know how hard it is to make games, and have too much respect for my fellow devs. 2.) I work for a game studio, and it would be uncool and unprofessional for me to do so. But sometimes I want to. Oh boy.

Most people don't have these constraints, and are free to post whatever they want. The internet is a glorious wild wild west, and I wouldn't have it any other way. And there was a time when I exercised that right very freely.

When I was writing game reviews for the Adrenaline Vault forever ago, I was absolutely that person who would say whatever I wanted about a game, good or bad. Sometimes the good was over-enthusiastically too good. And sometimes the bad was me being a sarcastic asshat.

But throughout that time, I actually had no inkling what game development was actually like. How hard the designers, programmers, artists, producers, and everyone else worked. The struggle to bring a vision to life with constantly shifting resources. The stress.

This isn't me complaining about my job. I've experienced all these things, and will again. It's the nature of AAA game development. But I also have a great position, and am still gainfully employed after 21+ years. A blessing considering the thousands of layoffs this year.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, because the internet. But given my position, I can't not share the truth. And that truth is, nobody sets out to make a bad game. And most game devs are incredibly talented... even if the game they release isn't up to par.

See, I never knew this before, but if nothing else, video game development is a series of concessions and tough decisions. There's that perfect game you WANT to make... and then there's the game you CAN make. Sometimes, if the gods smile on you, those two are very close.

But in order to get there, in order to get it as close as possible to the vision, the team has to push itself harder and harder... often while dealing with devs being shuffled around (or leaving), looming deadlines, and creative decisions you wish you didn't have to make.

And "team" is absolutely the operative word there. Lots and lots of folks doing lots of lots of work. Writing, level building, making character models, coding game systems, trying to schedule it all so it can get done and folks don't burn out, and on and on.

So sure, you can dislike parts of a game. You can hate on a game entirely. But don't fool yourself into thinking you know why it is the way it is (unless it's somehow documented and verified), or how it got to be that way (good or bad).

Chances are, unless you've made a game yourself, you don't know who made certain decisions; who did specific work; how many people were actually available to do that work; any time challenges faced; or how often you had to overcome technology itself (this one is HUGE).

So yes! Love games, buy them, play them, and complain to your heart's content! It's sort of the nature of the developer/player transactional relationship.

But... just know that the game you're playing is in some ways a freaking miracle in and of itself. Normal people have come together to work FOR YEARS for one goal - to bring you fun and happiness. So it helps to remember that... and them! ♥️
 

Silverfish

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
3,856
Loved this bit:

And "team" is absolutely the operative word there. Lots and lots of folks doing lots of lots of work. Writing, level building, making character models, coding game systems, trying to schedule it all so it can get done and folks don't burn out, and on and on.

"See? It's not my fault! I may have painted a bulls-eye on my head by making myself a prominent public figure, but really, it's the no-name drones who should take their share of the blame."
 

ind33d

Learned
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
1,600
When Emil says "Funny how disconnected some players are from the realities of game development" he means the government blackmailed them to make the game shit. You think Bethesda is the one who decided to make a space game with no aliens? Was making all the NPCs black Todd's idea? Grow a brain and read between the lines
 

Ravielsk

Magister
Joined
Feb 20, 2021
Messages
1,683
Of course, such a catastrophic failure in a country's electrical grid does not compare to VIDEO GAME BAD, but in this business you don't get to drop a "job hard" and expect that to be it.
100% spot on. But I have to add that this goes a few steps beyond "GAYM BAD". The entire videogame industry has gotten far too comfortable with standards so low that in any other industry they would have most likely been locked up for fraud. They pretty blatantly lied about the game and this time there is no cushion of pre-established fan base or mod community to break their fall. For once it looks like they will not just get away with it and Emil is too dense to realize that is what is happening.
 

Yoomazir

Educated
Joined
Sep 21, 2020
Messages
260
So what's gonna be for our homie Emil, "I'm excited to start a new chapter in my life" or "I am looking foward to spend more time with my family"?
 

jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
4,739
"See? It's not my fault! I may have painted a bulls-eye on my head by making myself a prominent public figure, but really, it's the no-name drones who should take their share of the blame."
Yes, the transfer of responsibility is very readable in his rant. Pathetic. But I like even more that he's trying to argue a customer should care how hard is to make a product. That's just silly. It's like a whole rant is a prove by itself of how hack of a writer he is.
 

ADL

Prophet
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Messages
4,027
Location
Nantucket
So what's gonna be for our homie Emil, "I'm excited to start a new chapter in my life" or "I am looking foward to spend more time with my family"?
If he weren't the same age as Todd I'd predict he'll up running the damn company. Thank God they'll probably end up retiring together.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
57,655
The sad part is that Starfield isn't actually any worse than any of their previous games. Fallout 3 or Skyirm did the sandbox thing a little better but in most respects they didn't actually "decline". They were already rock bottom from the get go. Oblivion is in no way any better than Starfield except in some superficial way.

Normies realizing Bethesda is a shit company now is beyond being the definition of too little too late.
 

Butter

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
8,288
Fallout 4 came out in 2015, I just want to know what Beth was doing for those 8 years, do they just sit around the office and occasionally make a model or texture without clocking off?
They were working on Fallout 76 until 2018. Youtube shills worked overtime to convince people that the Maryland studio had nothing to do with that turd.
 

DJOGamer PT

Arcane
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
7,947
Location
Lusitânia
Oblivion is in no way any better than Starfield except in some superficial way.
Nah

As bad as it might be, Oblivion is a coherent work - it has a focus and a concrete experience it's trying to achieve and so it does try to make sure it's various elements strive towards that goal
Which is why inspite of everything, there are things about Oblivion which still ended up being enjoyable and even memorable

Starfield is genuinely bereft of direction and its design elements are highly atomized
This game is a new low for Bethesda
 

destinae vomitus

Educated
Joined
Apr 25, 2021
Messages
138
it has a focus and a concrete experience it's trying to achieve and so it does try to make sure it's various elements strive towards that goal
That goal being to make a vapid open world action game for consoles, designed around the player constantly fast traveling and following compass markers on autopilot, with a main quest revolving around a gimmick that was obfuscated prior to release and is tedious beyond belief, four "factions" which in actuality are just linear themepark ride questlines that each exist within a vacuum, character progression that outside of a select few perks and magic powers boils down to numbers growing bigger (which is nullified thanks to level scaling enemies with increasingly inflated HP), and last but not least, a setting that had zero thought or effort put into it beyond trying to make it look like a superficial facsimile of popular genre movies and other media.

Which Bethesda game am I describing, the one released in 2006 or the one that came out a few months ago? Just a rhetorical question.
 

abija

Prophet
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
3,220
The entire videogame industry has gotten far too comfortable with standards so low that in any other industry they would have most likely been locked up for fraud.
The world is a lot SHITTIER than you seem to think.
 

Halfling Rodeo

Educated
Joined
Dec 14, 2023
Messages
963
The sad part is that Starfield isn't actually any worse than any of their previous games. Fallout 3 or Skyirm did the sandbox thing a little better but in most respects they didn't actually "decline". They were already rock bottom from the get go. Oblivion is in no way any better than Starfield except in some superficial way.

Normies realizing Bethesda is a shit company now is beyond being the definition of too little too late.
Fallout 76 took the blind fold off when they couldn't mod it into a functional game. Bethesda has released the Same Fallout 3 clone over and over. They change the enemies and the weapon skins but they're all the same basic game. All starfield did different was it made you fast travel to your boring quest marked locations. Fallout 3 was already a bland walking sim with turn based VATs combat for most people. So what difference does Starfield make to them except Internet Historian and a bunch of reddits complaining woke them up to what everyone with a brain already knew.
 

Bulo

Scholar
Joined
Mar 28, 2018
Messages
314
This is what Starfield fans have to look forward to (in twenty years, maybe, if its mod scene isn't dead like Fallout 4's, which it almost certainly will be):



The unrecognisable, diseased husk of an already wretched game
 

Lemming42

Arcane
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,688
Location
The Satellite Of Love
Hey, the gameplay there might look like rancid dogshit but the graphics look fucking incredible (hilarious supermodel NPC "overhaul" aside). That's one of the best visual overhauls I've ever seen, looks very close to the vanilla art direction but with a really impressive new coat of paint.
 

Bulo

Scholar
Joined
Mar 28, 2018
Messages
314
looks very close to the vanilla art direction
I disagree. Some of the new environments are pretty in isolation, but they clash with vanilla assets where the two meet. I've yet to see any mod imitate Skyrim's style successfully
 

Lemming42

Arcane
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,688
Location
The Satellite Of Love
There's always gonna be stylistic clashes in parts and it's never gonna be possible to fully shake the reality that it's a 12-year-old game on an engine that was outdated back then, but that is definitely one of the best collections of visual mods I've seen. Looks downright good for the most part. Skimming through the video, the only thing that stood out to me as notably out of place is the vanilla trees at around 9:30 but they can surely be replaced.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
10,071
Location
Grand Chien
This is what Starfield fans have to look forward to (in twenty years, maybe, if its mod scene isn't dead like Fallout 4's, which it almost certainly will be):



The unrecognisable, diseased husk of an already wretched game

Looks like absolute trash, good god
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom