Official RPG Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Stellaris - Paradox new sci-fi grand strategy game

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by Perkel, Aug 6, 2015.

  1. Nirvash Learned

    Nirvash
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2017
    Messages:
    537
    Pretty sure we already had games with way more "checks" running fine on a pentium decades ago.

    We don't need the nasa supercomputer to run checks and variables of a couple thousands pop, stellaris code is just complete garbage.
     
    • Yes Yes x 5
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  2. Storyfag Perfidious Pole Patron

    Storyfag
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Messages:
    10,827
    Location:
    A Dark Place
    Indeed, a nasa supercomputer would likely not suffice to run Stellaris smoothly.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Prestigious Prestigious x 1
    • [citation needed] [citation needed] x 1
    ^ Top  
  3. Ravielsk Scholar

    Ravielsk
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2021
    Messages:
    285
    The problem is that the engine Stellaris uses is incapable of supporting a game of this scale. The Clausewitz engine was made to run on Windows 2000 with CPUs that were under 1Ghz in performance. which is a feature that persist in the engine to this day. It effectively cannot run on more than one core and even then it usually does not max out that core. So you might have a massive AMD threadripper in your machine but Stellaris will still only utilize a fraction of its total performance. They used to have a pinned thread on steam forums explaining how the game "totally can do multithreading its just real complicated, ok" which basically revealed that 99% of the game runs on core0 and the rest might sometimes be send to the other cores.
    Over the years they have done little to fix up the engine, for example when they switched the game to 64-bit executable they still somehow managed to keep 32-bit a addresses in it so for a while Stellaris had a 64-bit executable that effectively behaved like a 32-bit one. Not sure if they ever fully fixed that but it would not shock me if they did not.
    Then there is the fact that the game runs in this weird semi-software mode where everything is loaded into the RAM and somehow even graphical elements that should go through the GPU seem to be still handled by the CPU so that further degrades performance.

    Also the coding solutions are just bizarrely hilarious. At one point their pathfinding solution for gateways was literary to basically ping every single gateway and every single system for every single ship individually to determine the optimal path. For pops they had this bizzaro setup where your production and stockpile update only every in-game month but the engine was checking their production every single frame. So basically a script that is supposed to trigger only every say 64000 frames was running on every frame. There is much more but those are the ones that I personally remember.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 4
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Despair Despair x 1
    ^ Top  
  4. zapotec Learned

    zapotec
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    870
    What game is SEEIII/IV?
     
    • How about this as a button How about this as a button x 1
    ^ Top  
  5. Niggerino Savant

    Niggerino
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2020
    Messages:
    685
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2021
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    ^ Top  
  6. Norfleet Moderator

    Norfleet
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    10,384
    If that were true, why does it run so badly under computers so many times better, even single-core? No, the reason is because the current incarnation is badly written bloatware by people who utilize shovelware coding practices and probably never perform even the most cursory thoughts of run-time complexity in their algorithms.
     
    ^ Top  
  7. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Average Manatee
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    11,208
    This. Paradox coders are absolutely the worst in the business. According to reports they are paid and treated particularly poorly even for a games company. It should be no wonder that their games get worse all the time in terms of performance. Look at the quality of people they hire, they hired DDRJake on account of being able to stream on twitch and despite promoting him lead developer he quit. I can't imagine how bad it must be to work there, and commensurately how bad the people who will put up with it to keep a job there.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  8. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Average Manatee
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    11,208
    Gave Determined Assimilator/Ringworld a try. It's a tad bit busted. Mostly because you can get your energy workers to give 20-22 energy per pop fairly quickly, the actual ringworld districts aren't terribly better than just spamming labs now that you have unlimited build slots. Of course assimilators themselves being OP helps, but a normal empire could conquer almost as quickly (I have 1k influence just sitting there with nothing to use it on). I don't think I've actually lost a single ship all game, I deleted the corvettes and I don't think any cruisers have ever died. Was in the process of colonizing the 2nd ringworld segment too, could probably have had 10k research by 2300.

    [​IMG]

    One of these things is not like the other. One of these things just doesn't belong.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    God damn is the AI shit. This is an advanced start GA AI and it's already this far behind in 2283. I mean I could make a dozen fleets, tediously capture every world, then fix their broken worlds and continue until eventually I could fight a disappointing crisis that gets wiped out immediately. But that's like min-maxing punching a baby while also filling out paperwork to legalize your baby punching, except less fun.
     
    • PIRACY IS WRONG PIRACY IS WRONG x 1
    ^ Top  
  9. zapotec Learned

    zapotec
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    870
    The only way to increase naval capacity is to spam anchorage in the starbases?
     
    ^ Top  
  10. Ravielsk Scholar

    Ravielsk
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2021
    Messages:
    285
    Yes and some techs do the same but mostly anchorages.
     
    ^ Top  
  11. Storyfag Perfidious Pole Patron

    Storyfag
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Messages:
    10,827
    Location:
    A Dark Place
    Soldier jobs too.
     
    ^ Top  
  12. TemplarGR Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Bethestard

    TemplarGR
    Joined:
    May 30, 2013
    Messages:
    5,815
    Location:
    Cradle of Western Civilization
    Problem is, Paradox is not selling you a game, they are selling you the technical pre-alpha of the game, and then they demand regular payments and many years to get the full version. It is a glorified early access model. A game you pay 60$ for should be finished at release, DLCs should only add content and expand the game, not be required to finance the finishing of the game.
     
    • Brofist x 3
    • decline x 1
    • Yes x 1
    • Rage x 1
    • NPC #61873 came up with this opinion all by his / herself x 1
    ^ Top  
  13. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    89,528
    RPG Wokedex Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
     
    • Shit Shit x 2
    • hopw roewur ne hopw roewur ne x 1
    • nice nice x 1
    ^ Top  
  14. vonAchdorf Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    vonAchdorf
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2014
    Messages:
    12,738
    What's the elevator pitch for this game, e.g. compared to CK and EU?
     
    ^ Top  
  15. IDtenT Menace to sobriety! Patron

    IDtenT
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    12,283
    Location:
    South Africa
    Divinity: Original Sin
    4x from PDS.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    ^ Top  
  16. MadMaxHellfire Arcane

    MadMaxHellfire
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    6,607
    Location:
    Italy
    entry level grand strategy.
     
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    ^ Top  
  17. Ibn Sina Savant Patron

    Ibn Sina
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2017
    Messages:
    588
    Strap Yourselves In
    Spreadsheet training program for office clerks and secretaries
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    ^ Top  
  18. Raghar Arcane

    Raghar
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    Messages:
    13,802
    If you have species that has perk that increases limit on number of ships... You can get additional slots. Less minerals/alloys because your POP is doing something else, but it can be helpful. IIRC military positions also increases free naval slots a bit. Or you can bit the bullet and make ships until you get over 2x capacity. After that, you'd be likely in negatives.
     
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    ^ Top  
  19. zapotec Learned

    zapotec
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    870
    I stilll don't understand the advantages of syncretic evolution, you control two races but they don't grow simultaneously...
     
    • That's an Elephant That's an Elephant x 1
    ^ Top  
  20. what am i doing Arcane

    what am i doing
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2018
    Messages:
    1,112
    Well, you can specialize them for particular roles to min-max a bit.
     
    • Yes Yes x 1
    ^ Top  
  21. Storyfag Perfidious Pole Patron

    Storyfag
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Messages:
    10,827
    Location:
    A Dark Place
    It's Stellaris. It is all LARP.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    • Yes Yes x 1
    • Despair Despair x 1
    ^ Top  
  22. Preben Savant

    Preben
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2017
    Messages:
    683
    Location:
    Failsaw, Failand
    Which is ridiculously useless. By that time you should be already snowballing.
     
    ^ Top  
  23. what am i doing Arcane

    what am i doing
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2018
    Messages:
    1,112
    What do you mean by "by that time"? You start with it, unless the game has changed since I last played.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  24. MadMaxHellfire Arcane

    MadMaxHellfire
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    6,607
    Location:
    Italy
    first and foremost: larping. also back in the day the *did* grow simultaneously. besides, if you're more keen on minmaxing you usually heavily specialize the two races, one for labour and the other for command.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  25. zapotec Learned

    zapotec
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    870
    Hmm the more i play the game, the more i feel i am playing "job center simulator".
    I have only 20 hours in the game, but for me it seems that focus of the game is moving these population between the various jobs.

    I mean, why in a galaxy space-faring game i should care if planet X has 5 clerks instead of 6, no idea.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    ^ Top  

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.