KickStarter Stoneshard - open world roguelike RPG - now available on Early Access

[PlayerEmers]

Other thing worth mentioning: theres new bags to buy, one of them in Osbrook. Since cloaks got nerfed (no more dodge chance, on early cloaks at least), buying the firsts bag for extra space seems very good for carrying a pot (for cooking) and traps for dungeons.

The new bags are actually insane when you think about it. The Knapsack (basic bag that you can buy on Osbrook on first days) gives you 12 inventory slots.
The herbalists bag (that is guaranteed to spawn on the hermits hut/priest quest in Mannshire) not only gives the same 12 inventory slots (although the Knapsack gives a 4x3 grid) but also gives 6 slots for drinks/potions and 6 slots for herbs (which includes lentils which you can harvest and make easy food). Its amazing.
Im curious to see the late game cloaks/capes tho. Because the bag value is nuts for the most basic bags you can easily obtain.

Edit: Also found out the old school backpack from previous patches got buffed.

 

[Raghar]

I see. How about combining the two then: let’s say there’s a raw amount of skill-specific xp you get from a successful lock-picking and there are associated feats that can be picked upon achieving a certain level in this particular skill which either boost the overall performance in this skill or grant an option to override an unsuccessful attempt or whatever helps to promote the player agency really.

I don't really see how that'd help - the player still sacrifices nothing to pump lockpicking to max level in each playthrough.

In real life, healthy person can learn lockpicking fairly easily. It's still more effort than buying Javelin Anti-tank missile from Ukrainians go to sufficient distance to ensure safeties on missile would disengage, and shoot the missile at the door.
It takes only 5 hours to learn manual and verify that battery is functional. And then massive effort to drag heavy ATGM on you back, or in carrying case.
But there is hole instead of door after that, and it was far easier to learn how to doublecheck missile, and possibly repair its electronic/battery than learn lockpicking.

Of course if someone doesn't have talent for software engineering and electronics, and is unable to do more than read manual. Then he typically manages to learn how to shoot within 30 minutes, and by bringing manual to place of action shoot missile within about 15 minutes just by using manual as reference and pointing missile into correct direction.

Or people can spend 12-15 days by learning lockpicking skill and try it on the same door and lock. When they are menially dextrous, it might be easier for them than diagnoze possible quirks caused by 5-15 years of storage of ATGM.

I don't recommend combination of wooden doors and grenade launcher because we saw what happened on that video with Azov soldiers in about 2014-2015.

What benefit does learn by doing bring in terms of gameplay?

You saw that in Morrowind. By spending 10x more effort, you could become decent in 6 skills instead of 2.
It feels realistic. In real life you don't have limits by learning to do stuff A, that will not deny you being great in stuff B.

 

[Pink Eye]

I'm playing this game and having tons of fun; but there's two big problems that are ruining my enjoyment. For starters, why can't I use a lantern or torch so I can see in the dark. Whenever I travel at night I can't see anything. Whenever I explore dungeons that are dark, I have issues seeing things on my screen. To combat this, I hold tab and hope I don't miss anything of value while randomly clicking around in the dark. When I fight enemies in the dark I haphazardly click on their bodies hoping I'm clicking on the right thing because I can't see where they're standing - sometimes they blend into the environment depending on the lighting. This is very annoying. Years of gaming have finally caught up to me and my vision is getting worse, which doesn't help matters.

Just look at these:

Spoiler

^in this one it feels like my character just blends into the environment due to the lighting

Spoiler

^worst offender

Should at the very least be a torch that I can carry on second weapon slot. Or a lantern that I equip on belt slot which would periodically require oil to refill - al la Dragon's Dogma lantern system - which I personally enjoyed. It just sucks that the lighting system is the way it is since it makes it difficult for me to see.

The second thing that's been irritating me is the walk speed. My God, I have about 50 hours clocked in so far, and I feel like most of that is just walking around from point A to point B - it's so tedious exploring the world because of this. It also doesn't help when tiles can be very massive. The caravan system, which I like, does alleviate the issue of exploration, as does the carriages in towns that you can pay gold for an escort, however, there's going to be many moments in this game where you have to walk; and boy does it suck, because of how slow the whole experience is. It's excruciating, it really is. I wish animations outside of combat were sped up so this whole process didn't feel too bad. I really don't know why this is the way it is, it doesn't add anything of value to the game, save tedium. I think the open world tiles just need to be smaller so it doesn't take so long to traverse.

Minor nitpick: there's no local map, only the world map, this is a problem because a local map would at least help me see if exploring the fog of war is even worth it.

On top of this, a lot of tiles are either empty or filled with boring enemies - there's just too many bandits. The reason why I dislike bandits so much is because of how easy they are to kill, they're mind numbingly boring. There are interesting encounters that you can find such as: spiders that can web then apply poison, bees that are super hard to hit and can inflict intoxication, or wild life that can surprise you by ambush; but by God, what good there is, is suffocated by dull bandits. Open world games only work when there's exciting stuff to explore. There *needs* to be more diverse enemies to find and fight.

I am however very disheartened that despite all the years this game has been in Early Access we're still missing essential skill trees - Venomancy, Cryomancy, Psymancy, Alchemy, Basic Skills only having 3, etc. The focus should be to flesh your skills out, get the character creation out, then focus on the subsystems. The meat 'n bones of a game like this is the build making.

Besides the pain points, the game is great, it really is. When Stoneshard works, it's amazing. The game captures the magic of Battle Brothers for me, except, instead of managing a whole company of mercs, I'm managing one dude; and it gets really intense managing that one dude due to the game's systems of: intoxication, injuries, limb health, sanity, morale, hunger and thirst. All of these work together in a meaningful way to create intense experiences in combat. I had a run in a dungeon where my dual axe slaying dwarf got his head crippled, his legs broke too, his sanity was also on the verge of breaking, but this unit of a dwarf refused to die because of the skill Berserk Tradition - it was just giving him so many bonuses due to low HPs. When he got a kill, it proced his Berserk Frenzy, which facilitated him to keep killing, and hacking, until the enemies were all dead. It was so awesome to watch. The build that I was imagining for him was the Slayer from Warhammer where they don't wear heavy armor, only light, and dual wield axes - it was cool seeing my dwarf live up to that.

I'm having fun, I really am, the game is great. I just wish the open world wasn't such a dull chore.

 

[Fedora Master]

When Stoneshard works, it's amazing.

That's the crux. "When". I was infatuated with the game when playing it for the first time and things started clicking but now...? Nothing has changed about the loop and a tiny bit of bad luck can set you back tremendously. The balance, especially in the beginning, isn't there. "It's supposed to be hard lol" isn't an excuse.

 

[Raghar]

Imagine you are playing battle brothers. Random crossbow shot and...

 

[Takamori]

Imagine you are playing battle brothers. Random crossbow shot and...

And its your promising recruit that you took ages to find.

 

[jungl]

Stoneshard has a lot of flaws the biggest is the false impression on players that its a open world freedom sort of game maybe a rougelike when reality its the gothic games on steroids. You either ignore the hard enemies for 20+ hours or die hard like a bitch there is no in between. You have the best armor weapons and a ranged weapon option archery, magic or die horribly. You invest the first few points in stats that actually do something for the build you going for or wasted a level up.

Then there is the save system, procedurally generated content and walking simulator. The save system is pointless there is not enough interesting things going on to warrant it and now with backpacks and sleeping bags its like what is the point? See if there was stuff on the empty tiles like bandits willing to pay the player money to ambush a guardsmen, faction encounters dynamic stuff, maybe traveling merchant caravans with loot or gambling for money with them then this save system would be warranted. BTW good games where a player save scums with a npc they can gamble with like traveling caravan removes them from the area when they load the game.

Walking simulator is the worst thing about the game and has to go with there is not enough interesting stuff going on in the game world. It reminds me when I had friend over and he saw me playing battle brothers retreating from a battle that took ages before the developer added a speed up option. Friend asked let me guess this is indie shit? Listen stone shard is not caves of qud bad where you stuck underground for a hour dealing with procedurally generated crap cause its relatively fast get one point on the map to another but it is bad. Either add fast travel routes the player has traveled already or vastly more interesting procedually generated content.

 

[jackofshadows]

So despite my previous experience with the game, as a maiden I died in the first dungeon (at the very end). Please someone remind me all the necessary newby tips in order to avoid that in the future. Btw that whole dungeon had 2 tile doors so I kinda had to fight 1 vs 2 and lost because of that, even looted net didn't help enough. Wtf I don't remember that from before.

 

[normie]

So despite my previous experience with the game, as a maiden I died in the first dungeon (at the very end). Please someone remind me all the necessary newby tips in order to avoid that in the future. Btw that whole dungeon had 2 tile doors so I kinda had to fight 1 vs 2 and lost because of that, even looted net didn't help enough. Wtf I don't remember that from before.

just keep yourself in tip top shape, keep them limbs high in the green so your general health pool remains high, healing salve is cheap, use liberally
don't do things that lower morale and sanity that much ie staying in pain and thirst, eating raw things that lower them etc, heal it back up when it's not at its best so good status events proc when you're in shit, that's the thing that's constantly saving my ass
take the time to be at your best, it's always a gamble when you're not
kite? kite more, get a bear trap?
I did two dungeons waiting for HWR to be patched and it was a relatively painless, deathless experience

 

[Pink Eye]

Please someone remind me all the necessary newby tips in order to avoid that in the future.

I'm still trying to figure the game out, but get the skill 'War Cry' - this skill is insane for melee. War Cry gives you more damage, some crit, and the ability to either daze or confuse enemies. Also the bonus combat stats can trigger even if you yell at undead.

 

[jackofshadows]

Please someone remind me all the necessary newby tips in order to avoid that in the future.

I'm still trying to figure the game out, but get the skill 'War Cry' - this skill is insane for melee. War Cry gives you more damage, some crit, and the ability to either daze or confuse enemies. Also the bonus combat stats can trigger even if you yell at undead.

Yeah that's what I picked: war cry and seize the initiative. Maybe it were just bad rolls, will try again later. My limbs were fine too, relatively speaking. Had 75hp or so, thought it'd be enough, was wrong.

 

[Pink Eye]

I got lucky and found this crazy sword in a dungeon

Spoiler

^it does poison damage

The poison effect on the sword is ridiculously good, it's like bleed effect, except better. I also saw on a last run before I wiped that there was a weapon that can do sacred damage too. No clue what sacred damage does though since I was too poor to afford the weapon. I didn't know weapons can even have stuff like that since all the weapons I find give me stupid stuff like +1 to tickle the enemy's feet or some minor bonus to a stat I don't use.

 

[normie]

Had 75hp or so, thought it'd be enough, was wrong.

until you get ahead of the power curve via equipment or abilities, the game's combat is a battle of roughly equivalent health pools, the one who hits first has the advantage, and the struggle is being worn down combat after combat
the most you can do tactically is being aware who leads with charge attacks or long range attacks and either negating or mitigating their ability to hit you first

the big immediate game changers to aim for are the weapon stances and defensive maneuvers, I think, it's when you're countering, critting and blocking reliably that you start pulling ahead mathematically, and start feeling comfortable taking on multiples of enemies

 

[Tyranicon]

I haven't played in a long while. Do you still walk endlessly through the woods to get somewhere or have they mitigated that?

 

[Pink Eye]

Do you still walk endlessly through the woods to get somewhere

Yeap, and its the worst thing ever. I was exploring around and somehow forgot how far away I was from Osbrok. I'm now fifty two million miles away:

Look at that. Each one of those tiles takes me several minutes to hike through... This is so bad.

 

[Fedora Master]

And then you run into a pack of wolves and can do it all over again.

 

[Harthwain]

Look at that. Each one of those tiles takes me several minutes to hike through... This is so bad.

Pretty sure the caravan mitigates that?

 

[mediocrepoet]

Look at that. Each one of those tiles takes me several minutes to hike through... This is so bad.

Pretty sure the caravan mitigates that?

I haven't played this thing in ages, though I was looking at it to start up again. Anyway, in the Splattercat video, he mentioned moving the caravan and another guy who has a cart or something by campfires where he can take you back to town for a fee, but he said the cost makes it an actual decision about which way you want to go on it.

 

[jackofshadows]

Okay, that were some bad rolls I think. Second time I cleared the first dungeon with 0 problems. Anyways...

This game is addictive as shit, I give them that of course. And I'm enjoying it so far. Again. But the devs need treatment. Many, many years of treatment. Like how the fuck I cannot put in the inventory the dish I just prepared? There's no earthly explanation for this. And you guys weren't joking about the moving. Holy fuck! Speedhack is FTW once again.

Tried the bear on 3 lvl (there's an achievement for beating it under 5 lvl), the mf has wiped me in 3 turns. I guess you're suppose to bring lots of traps and obliterate it from distance.

 

[normie]

Like how the fuck I cannot put in the inventory the dish I just prepared?

I assume you need a bowl or a plate, else you're eating straight out of the pot or not at all

 

[Pink Eye]

I finally took down a group of ghouls plus a large ghoul. This group of enemies was responsible for killing me so many times. Each time I tried to travel through this tile during night, I'd get randomly one shot because I'd accidentally walk into the ghouls since they love to wander around. I swore a blood oath to kill them after so many night ambushes! I got so sick and tired of being constantly harassed by these things - no, I won't go the other way around, their tile is faster to town.

Anyways, it took me a lot of tries to learn the encounter. For starters, trying to fight these things in melee was just pain - I'd get one tapped. Once I figured out that you're supposed to carefully pull the weak ones away from the group, then signal out the tougher ghouls in a one on one fight, you'll have a much easier time at the encounter. I only managed to figure that out though when one of them fought me alone. I spent many times trying to recreate that scenario again, it was a lot of trial and error since their AI is finicky. Doing this is better because trying to fight even two of these things at once would result in death. You need to carefully pull and pick them apart so you're not forced into a 2v1 or, God help you, a 3v1 scenario. Also when you isolate the ghouls make sure they die far away because apparently the big ghouls love to devour their diseased allies. I have no clue if devouring diseased allies gave them a buff but it scared me a bit since it reminded me of how ghouls in Battle Brothers would get buffed.

It was pretty satisfying nonetheless seeing this:

I think I figured out my preferred way of playing this game, and that's spears. Man I love spears. They allow me to essentially not get into close quarters melee. In the early game you can die so easily in melee, it's kind of insane. If I don't get into melee then I don't need to worry about dying, easy. Spears are so good at this by their ability to immobilize the enemy and facilitate the means to circle around while incurring bleed on them. There's two abilities that allow this to happen: Leg Sweep and Nail Down. Both abilities can prevent enemies from moving. Additionally Impaling Lunge gets an instant CD whenever you hit an enemy that can't move - it also bleeds. What I like to do is use Nail Down, bleed the enemy with Impaling Lunge, then use Leg Sweep to run away. It may sound boring with the description I'm giving but in-game it's very intense, especially when you're trying to manage big groups.

I'm currently level 5 and I'm having tons of fun. The game is addicting.

I have to say though the early game was a slog. See Arna, the character I picked, didn't start with the spears skill or Athletics - Athletics is required for Leg Sweep. So I had to waste all my starting gold to learn spears. Then I had to do a grueling journey all the way down to Mannshire in order to buy a book that unlocked Athletics. By the way, that journey was the worst, it took me like 15-30 mins to walk all the way down there. That doesn't include the moments I got ambushed, died, then had to redo the journey, or the moments where I got to Mannshire, bought the book, but didn't have any gold to rent a bed in order to save, so I died first step outside the town by wolves which resulted in me having to repeat the entire journey all the way from the beginning - yeah the early game of getting set up wasn't great. Once I did get set up, everything felt better.

At its worst Stoneshard is a tedious game where you walk around, at its best though, Stoneshard is an excellent hardcore game reminiscent of Battle Brothers.

Pretty sure the caravan mitigates that?

To an extent. It takes a bit before you get caravan as Osbrok has you do some contracts and stuff before getting to the capital, so you're going to be walking around before it's unlocked. Once you do have it, the system has a 2000 turn cool down when you use it, plus it needs a food resource called fodder - which isn't exactly cheap early on. The carriage guy also only shows up in select places, so if you're running to a dungeon that's far from a settlement, well, you're out of luck there. God help you if you explore around the outskirts then travel far away from civilization. You're going to be spending time walking regardless is the point and that's just the worst part of the game.

 

[Harthwain]

Like how the fuck I cannot put in the inventory the dish I just prepared? There's no earthly explanation for this.

I know I wouldn't try to put a dish into my backpack without putting it into some sort of container first...

 

[Pink Eye]

I know I wouldn't try to put a dish into my backpack without putting it into some sort of container first.

Eh, the game's mechanics aren't explained is the point Jack is making. I personally didn't even know you were supposed to put water in pot to make soup. I kept trying to drag and drop a bucket of water into the pot but it didn't work. Then I got a different pot, filled it with water, then replaced it in the cooking. That's when I realized that there's an actual pot in there, and that's also when I realized you're supposed to 'Merge' water into it by right clicking a water source - this isn't explained anywhere.

 

[normie]

this isn't explained anywhere

it's explained in the tutorial

 

[Pink Eye]

it's explained in the tutorial

The pop ups? I disabled them because the game kept spamming me about attacks of opportunity each time I started a new run. I guess that's my bad for disabling them. Oh well.