Sunday morning brunch - OB-info/hype

[GhanBuriGhan]

Ok, let me make my psoition clear one last time. Yes, the missing reins are goofy. A bad oversight. I am not arguing against it, ok? But Twinfalls made a huge big post that "the game is not finished".
To me, especially coming from a codexer that translated to: There will be a lot of other, gameplay related things that will be unfinished too". Only against that have I tried to argue.

Other graphical errors that many of you might not even have noticed:
- while landscape and buildings reflect, vegetation does not. Looks creepy.
- Several screens show clipping issues
- The missing object shadows make items "float" on the ground, the effect in such a photorealistic environment is more glaring than one would think
- Horse walking animation is jerky, and there still seems to be pivot turning (although its less evident in the last video), and the hooves slide.
- In the E3 demo one of the chains pops in out of nowhere.
- ragdoll corpses seem to fall too slowly.
- E3 videos showed only one side of blades getting bloody.
- The shield block animation is way too abrupt

etc. etc. my point is, if the gameplay is reasonably polished, nopne of this should be a big deal for this site which is gameplay centered. The argument that B sold this "only as a graphics and horsie" game is incorrect AND irrelevant IMHO.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

But given that adding reins would take almost no time, given that it's an ugly and obvious deficiency, I think it's somewhat safe to assume that if that got through, other things did as well.

To be fair I can see it being hard to animate. You've got two different animated creatures moving about and you need to draw a line between them. It'd be nice if that line itself were animated to sag, swing, and ripple realistically. Throw in all the different NPC races/sexes, different horse breeds, and different movement speeds and I can see it'd be a headache to keep the ends planted on the horse's bridle and the NPCs hands. Keeping one end planted wouldn't be too hard, both would.

Not to say it doesn’t look ridiculous, just that implementing reins wouldn't be as easy as drawing a line.

Isn't that what Havoc is supposed to take care of, though?

 

[dongle]

Isn't that what Havoc is supposed to take care of, though?

Good point. Don't know actually, haven't played with it in a game engine yet. If it's as simple as "add havoc here" I can't see why they didn't just do that tho.

 

[The Internets]

I think its stupid to nitpick the absence of reins. The game will likely have a ton of other SIGNIFICANT problems, such as glitchy radiant AI, poor framerate, bad foliage draw distance, etc...

But to nitpick the absence of reins just shows your 100% close-minded hatred of the game. Its not even out. I'm SURE I will find more to complain about than fucking REINS

?

Really? Well in that case, things like missing reins will be that much more of a slap in the face.

I hate Oblivion even more now, thanks.


ps...you'd think keeping reins within a characters hands wouldn't be too difficult. Havok would take care of the soft-body motion of the object, and pinning it to a characters hands would be done via point constraints of some kind--surly Havok has constraints.

No, I'm willing to get it was getting the reins into the hands that proves more difficult. How do you animate that if Havok can place the reins anywhere it wants? Where would the character grab?

 

[kodiak bear]

to all who think the graphics suck

while there are some obvious issues with oblivion, most if not all are minor, very minor, as what ghan buri gan stated above. to those that wont listen to reason, here are some screens i have never seen here(in a brief period of searching, admitidley)

http://media.pc.ign.com/media/702/70249 ... 39718.html
http://media.pc.ign.com/media/702/70249 ... 42822.html
http://media.pc.ign.com/media/702/70249 ... 16416.html

im sorrry, but if you guys think that oblivion has ugly graphics, there is something wrong with you.

 

[Venom]

Can't believe I registered just to say that....


But there are reins. Look very closely at seconds 6 to 8. You can see them....A very thin line in the left hand. So thin it's kinda pathetic....But they are still there.

I could be high though.

 

[kodiak bear]

But given that adding reins would take almost no time, given that it's an ugly and obvious deficiency, I think it's somewhat safe to assume that if that got through, other things did as well.

To be fair I can see it being hard to animate. You've got two different animated creatures moving about and you need to draw a line between them. It'd be nice if that line itself were animated to sag, swing, and ripple realistically. Throw in all the different NPC races/sexes, different horse breeds, and different movement speeds and I can see it'd be a headache to keep the ends planted on the horse's bridle and the NPCs hands. Keeping one end planted wouldn't be too hard, both would.

Not to say it doesn’t look ridiculous, just that implementing reins wouldn't be as easy as drawing a line.

Isn't that what Havoc is supposed to take care of, though?

yes, it is what havoc is meant to take care of. in half life 2, all you needed to do in the garrys mod( sandbox thing that lets you play with EVERYTHING in the game, and screw around with the physics) is tie a string between two objects, and the physics engine would take care of the rest. implementing horse reins shouldnt have been to hard. but then again, this is a game. does something that minor matter?

 

[Drain]

Re: to all who think the graphics suck

while there are some obvious issues with oblivion, most if not all are minor, very minor, as what ghan buri gan stated above. to those that wont listen to reason, here are some screens i have never seen here(in a brief period of searching, admitidley)

http://media.pc.ign.com/media/702/70249 ... 39718.html
http://media.pc.ign.com/media/702/70249 ... 42822.html
http://media.pc.ign.com/media/702/70249 ... 16416.html

im sorrry, but if you guys think that oblivion has ugly graphics, there is something wrong with you.

I don't remember anyone saying that Oblivion has poor graphics. Ugly art - yes. Ugly graphics - no. Unless too much bloom complaints count.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Can't believe I registered just to say that....


But there are reins. Look very closely at seconds 6 to 8. You can see them....A very thin line in the left hand. So thin it's kinda pathetic....But they are still there.

I could be high though.

I think you are. Went through frame by frame, no reins. Could you share whatever you are smoking?

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Isn't that what Havoc is supposed to take care of, though?

Good point. Don't know actually, haven't played with it in a game engine yet. If it's as simple as "add havoc here" I can't see why they didn't just do that tho.

In fact it woud be enough to just thread the reins to the hand thats on the saddle, that would be good enough for a minimum amount of realism.

 

[dongle]

Yep, or even just attach them to the saddle and have the NPC's hand clamp over that.

 

[Venom]

Can't believe I registered just to say that....


But there are reins. Look very closely at seconds 6 to 8. You can see them....A very thin line in the left hand. So thin it's kinda pathetic....But they are still there.

I could be high though.

I think you are. Went through frame by frame, no reins. Could you share whatever you are smoking?

I can still see a very thin line....And I don't smoke, but I drink alot....

And at least, they have the characters hold on to the saddle! :D

 

[Antiphon]

Silly people, they're telekinetic reins.

 

[Venom]

Maybe since I am looking forward to the game, my brain is trying to convince me there are reins! :D

 

[Antiphon]

So is this picture just faked?

http://elderscrolls.com/images/art/ob_pc/obliv03B.jpg

 

[Venom]

The picture is from the back so we can't see invisible reins. Or the thin ones, according to me.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

So is this picture just faked?

http://elderscrolls.com/images/art/ob_pc/obliv03B.jpg

That one is posed, that is known. Ingame art, but not an ingame pose.

 

[Antiphon]

Ok. So there is at least art for reins.

Maybe smaller objects fade in later?

 

[Venom]

Ok. So there is at least art for reins.

Maybe smaller objects fade in later?

Hehehehe! This is why I love this board. Best razor sharp wit on the Net!

 

[Antiphon]

If they did forget reins, it is a rather odd thing. I'll hardly notice it in game though. More noticeable is the somewhat jerky movement and sliding of the horses and NPCs. Not a deal breaker for me though. I remember all to well many many hours playing Pong.

Computers and games are two of the fastest evolving technologies, yet they appear to have the most people unhappy with the pace. If computers and video games evolved at the same rate as autos, we'd be at the level of PacMan.

Does GM have the equivalent of the Codex? I wonder what those arguments are like?

 

[Venom]

I do mind it, but like I said, at least they are holding on to the saddle :D! It does take away from the immersion, but I'll forget about it quickly.

And I can still see a thin line dammit!

 

[Antiphon]

I do mind it, but like I said, at least they are holding on to the saddle :D! It does take away from the immersion, but I'll forget about it quickly.

And I can still see a thin line dammit!

(psst...I can see it too, but I don't want to say that here )

 

[Solik]

Does GM have the equivalent of the Codex?

The automobile equivalent of the Codex would be Ford vs. Chevrolet, except 90% of the board are followers of Ford, and Ford stopped making good vehicles fifteen years ago.

 

[Antiphon]

Ok, MSFD said no visible reins.

http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=DevQuotes.Detail&id=50

 

[Perishiko]

I don't mean to call you a fanboy or idiot. It's just that you are making the idiot fanboy argument. As Dongle pointed out, 'There can be no middle ground', any criticism means you totally hate the whole game. It means flaws cannot be pointed out.

What flaws like this one (glaring lack of finish) were present in any LG game?

Of course, first of all.. I'll state that i don't really care that there are errors or things left out like this. Not really because i don't care. Just because i really don't notice such small things.

Perhaps I don't really pay much attention to things, but i really wouldn't have noticed any of these things talked about if it weren't pointed out to me.

Of course, i see it as a pretty bad mistake now, but i still wouldn't have noticed it(I guess i have to mention this point alot...)

Makes me think that they should have you guys as the "testers" for the game... Critics can always notice things like this. Yet, a critic of the game wouldn't want to play it long enough to actually notice everything... So we're at a standoff where things like this will be missing in huge games for a long time to come.