Sunday morning brunch - OB-info/hype

[spacemoose]

I'm thinking the compass was put in to appease microsoft, who want maximum enjoyment for their xbox customers. And yeah, they wouldn't want them to lose track of where the next fun-number-gaining place is, or the players attention would drift to something else, like a bird flying by or something. Be happy they didn't make it mission-based or a 3D side-scroller.

 

[WouldBeCreator]

So I just watched the vid -- what the fuck is going on with the invisible reins? Is this like The Emperor's New Clothes? I mean that's like a big fucking thing to leave out, especially since they made custom reins-holding animations. I don't understand . . . .

 

[HotSnack]

So I just watched the vid -- what the fuck is going on with the invisible reins? Is this like The Emperor's New Clothes? I mean that's like a big fucking thing to leave out, especially since they made custom reins-holding animations. I don't understand . . . .

They left that bit out for people to roleplay.

 

[kingcomrade]

It's FREEDOM. The Freedom to imagine real reins or magical fantasy reins. They didn't want to constrain the player with mundane reins.

 

[Twinfalls]

It's FREEDOM. The Freedom to imagine real reins or magical fantasy reins. They didn't want to constrain the player with mundane reins.

Haha!

This is one of the funniest 'we didn't finish the game' pointers I have ever seen. They should be holding coconuts instead.

Edit: and Lo and behold, my special friend Summer comes along on her horse, rght on cue, to the ESF thread:

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... pic=265407

 

[Twinfalls]

Its too funny how the high and mighty codexers come out of their hole and gameplay ftw! attitude whenever there is a little bone to pick on oblivions graphics. Yes, it's goofy looking. Should we care? Schould YOU care?

A 'little bone'??!?!? This is a game sold as being all about graphics and horsies. You call that a little bone? It's fucking laughable. This is about basic standards - finishing what you start.

The game is, quite plainly, unfinished. Is there nothing you fanboys won't leap out to excuse for this thing?

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

No, YOU make it out to be all about graphics and horsies. I didn't, the guys over at the TES forums don't, and no, not even pete does. Fancy that! It's the corner in which YOU would like to put it.

I am not defending that they left it out, it's silly. Does it mean the GAME is unfinished? Not really, why?
BTW, I would like to point out that IIRC M&B doesn't have reins either, and that one IS indeed all about horsies.

 

[Twinfalls]

No, YOU make it out to be all about graphics and horsies.... Fancy that! It's the corner in which YOU would like to put it.

Is that right? Tell me - what has 90% of the publicity dished out by Bethesda focused on?

I am not defending that they left it out, it's silly. Does it mean the GAME is unfinished? Not really, why?

Why do you think? Are you saying this was an active feature of the design document from the start?

BTW, I would like to point out that IIRC M&B doesn't have reins either, and that one IS indeed all about horsies.

M&B is NOT a finished, final game. And let's not start comparing M&B's implementation of horses to Oblivions - we know who'll lose out in THAT duel.

Why do people like you keep justifying the decline in standards we see across the board today? You would never have seen such shoddiness in a Looking Glass game back in the day....

 

[Cloud Ruler]

Would it be silly to suggest that people just play the game and see if they like it?

Nah... no horse reins is the final nail in the coffin. I can never play a game without reins.

 

[Twinfalls]

That's not the point, ding-dong.

This is the standard response of the rank idiot.

Non-idiot: Criticism of obvious shoddiness
Idiot: But it won't 'totally ruin the game', so it doesn't matter, blah blah blah

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Why do people like you keep justifying the decline in standards we see across the board today? You would never have seen such shoddiness in a Looking Glass game back in the day....

Please look at those two videos again, and then repeat the "decline of standards" to me again. Are you on crack? What kind of standards are you making up there? Did it ever cross your mind that the only reason you even notice things like that is because the graphics standards are so incredibly high?

But I am just getting an ulcer here today, I am aware that your verdict is already spoken, and that the absence of reins in a CRPG is inexcusable and a sign that the game is not finished and has all the wrong priorities to begin with. I am powerless against such sage logic. I hope VD's review will elevate itself slightly above that level.

 

[SanguinePenguin]

So, have they fixed the "huge mass of blurred colors in the distance" problem that was mentioned in that blog review a while back? Because right now those landscape shots look pretty good to me.

 

[WouldBeCreator]

No, YOU make it out to be all about graphics and horsies.

Hopefully I'll have developed at least some credibility as not being an anti-Oblivion nut. So maybe you can take this as a disinterested viewpoint.

The reins thing obviously indicates that the game is unfinished because it is a glaring, highlighted *absence* -- they clearly intended to have reins, as they put in animation of the rider holding the reins, there's no reason not to have reins, they just *aren't there*. That said, a game that's "unfinished" in the sense that it lacks horse reins isn't majorly lacking -- but the fact that such a glaring hole is there suggests that there are other holes that cannot be seen as easily.

As for whether the game is all about graphics and horses, I can't say, but that *video* is about nothing more than graphics and horses. That's the whole point of the video. And it has a big, ridiculous hole in the middle of it.

If the riders didn't hold their hands out *as if* there were reins, I wouldn't care. But it's just the incredible absurdity of seeing someone mime holding reins that makes it look so bad. And the fact that they're showing that off in a publicity video is even more troubling.

And, honestly, it does somewhat affect my interest in the game. My interest has always been very low, but watching the video I thought, "Wow, this looks really pretty. Maybe it would be a fun sightseeing expedition." Then I noticed the reins, busted up, and decided to skip it.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Ok, so maybe its unfinished. What else besides reins do you have to support that notion? I assume you are not going to call the game unfinished and make a big deal out of it if it's JUST the reins that are unfinished, right?

 

[Twinfalls]

Please look at those two videos again, and then repeat the "decline of standards" to me again.

Gladly. You've got all this third-party tech being used - Speedtree, Gamebryo - because the computing power is there. You've got horses, because it looks good for screenshots. Yet you do not finish an elementary detail - the reins. Ghan, you've admitted it looks 'Goofy' yourself. this is the decline in standards, at least when compared with a company like Looking Glass. What they did, they did well, with polish and attention to detail. No fudging, and no reliance on a legion of fanboys to come out and silence all criticism.

the absence of reins in a CRPG is inexcusable and a sign that the game is not finished and has all the wrong priorities to begin with.

Once again, the argument of the idiot fan-boy. Any and all criticisms must be total game-breakers, and the critic must somehow be ONLY concerned with that particular criticism, so therefore it doesn't matter.

 

[Naked_Lunch]

Have you really run out of Oblivion-related things to complain and whine and make pointless threads about that you are now resorting to missing horse reins?

 

[WouldBeCreator]

I haven't followed the game's development at all. But given that adding reins would take almost no time, given that it's an ugly and obvious deficiency, I think it's somewhat safe to assume that if that got through, other things did as well. It's like if a game had a placeholder graphic for the intro menu. It's of course possible that they finished everything else but just missed that one thing, but safe money would go the other way.

It sounds like mounted combat was initially promised and then removed. It's not clear to me how it currently works -- would that mounted guard dismount to fight you if you attacked? -- but that might also be a major absence. Honestly, I don't want to get into the Oblivion furor: my interests are pretty much just peripheral to the main debate.

 

[kingcomrade]

 

[Twinfalls]

Nice one KC

Have you really run out of Oblivion-related things to complain and whine and make pointless threads about that you are now resorting to missing horse reins?

Have you SEEN the fucking video? It's hysterical!

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Please look at those two videos again, and then repeat the "decline of standards" to me again.

Gladly. You've got all this third-party tech being used - Speedtree, Gamebryo - because the computing power is there. You've got horses, because it looks good for screenshots. Yet you do not finish an elementary detail - the reins. Ghan, you've admitted it looks 'Goofy' yourself. this is the decline in standards, at least when compared with a company like Looking Glass. What they did, they did well, with polish and attention to detail. No fudging, and no reliance on a legion of fanboys to come out and silence all criticism.

the absence of reins in a CRPG is inexcusable and a sign that the game is not finished and has all the wrong priorities to begin with.

Once again, the argument of the idiot fan-boy. Any and all criticisms must be total game-breakers, and the critic must somehow be ONLY concerned with that particular criticism, so therefore it doesn't matter.

You won't hear me talking against looking glass, I loved the company and their games, and I miss them more than any other. Yet I would almost swear, that were I to scrutinize their games on this level, I could find something like this somewhere. The reason I argue here, is that I don't think you would be posting about this if you hadn't decided, for other reasons, as valid as they may be, that you dislike how this game was made already. You wouldn't be here arguing about reins. I prefer to argue with you about the featues that actually matter.

And I think I just don't deserve being called a fanboy or idiot. You have to realize that this place hardly leaves me any choice than to play the defender of Oblivion, because the criticism is regularly so over the top, that my own moderate criticism is really not needed. Thats a bit different at the TES boards.

 

[Twinfalls]

I don't mean to call you a fanboy or idiot. It's just that you are making the idiot fanboy argument. As Dongle pointed out, 'There can be no middle ground', any criticism means you totally hate the whole game. It means flaws cannot be pointed out.

What flaws like this one (glaring lack of finish) were present in any LG game?

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

What, have you ever said something positive about the game that I missed, any redeeming qualities? In this case apologies, but my impression was indeed that you hate the game - no thats too strong. You think its crap. And that has nothing to do with this minor criticism about reins, but with the last half year or so of posting.

Is it glaring? I personally didn't notice it until someone posted it. And no, I cannot, its been awhile since I played any of their games, and since I loved them I didn't look for such things. Which is my whole point.

I was going to, but I think it would be silly to summarize my own criticism of Oblivion here just to make the point. Dongles comment doesn't apply, and thats that.

 

[The Internets]

In case you missed my other example, one of the pictures released on monday shows a torch that's missing one of its chain supports.

Look, it's not being picky to point out unfinished details in a friggin 'promotional video'. Showing that kinda stuff isn't only strange, it's unprofessional and speaks volumes of the person putting it out.

All of this begs the bigger quesiton, what else isn't done, and what else has been rushed? A 95% from handpicked review sources doesn't exactly prove much, lets see some real reviews.

 

[Arkay Firestar]

I think its stupid to nitpick the absence of reins. The game will likely have a ton of other SIGNIFICANT problems, such as glitchy radiant AI, poor framerate, bad foliage draw distance, etc...

But to nitpick the absence of reins just shows your 100% close-minded hatred of the game. Its not even out. I'm SURE I will find more to complain about than fucking REINS

 

[dongle]

But given that adding reins would take almost no time, given that it's an ugly and obvious deficiency, I think it's somewhat safe to assume that if that got through, other things did as well.

To be fair I can see it being hard to animate. You've got two different animated creatures moving about and you need to draw a line between them. It'd be nice if that line itself were animated to sag, swing, and ripple realistically. Throw in all the different NPC races/sexes, different horse breeds, and different movement speeds and I can see it'd be a headache to keep the ends planted on the horse's bridle and the NPCs hands. Keeping one end planted wouldn't be too hard, both would.

Not to say it doesn’t look ridiculous, just that implementing reins wouldn't be as easy as drawing a line.