Baldur's Gate The Baldur's Gate Series Thread

[Butter]

The entire lich quest in Amkethran can be solved without combat.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

What are those 2 quests that can be solved without combat?
Three ways to enter the monastery, you make it sound like its non-linear when its extremely linear.
ToB is reallly meh. I mean, I am happy it exists, but even the writing is pretty cringe (even the romances).

t. just fresh from a bg1+tosc+bg2+tob run.

The quest when you cast resurrection on kid father and the one when you use horror to teleport the guy out of the city.
I remember that you can get smuggled into monastery, attack the gate and I think you can pretend to be one of the monks? I am not sure of the last one.

Yes it's not a breathtaking stuff, but still some improvements over more lineal, combat oriented quests from previous games.

 

[ga♥]

The kid father was just a fetch quest, you needed a cleric or a rod of resurrection...

Spells quests aren't new to ToB either, they are in BG2 proper as well. E.g. heal spell on mad imprisoned mage in the Underdark.

The lich quest in Amkethran, fetch quest as well, plenty in BG1/BG2.

And you can't pretend to be one of the monks.

Sorry ToB is just mediocre. Even SCS added cringe to it, with retarded new content in Abizagail lair (which admittely was content lacking, like most of ToB, but really feels out of place).

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

E.g. heal spell on mad imprisoned mage in the Underdark.

It's freedom spell. I think that using the spell was telegraphed pretty clearly by the game, but using resurrection on father and horror was less telegraphed that's why I see difference in approach in quest design.

Yes, those were fetch quests, didn't argue that ToB was great, just that it had some potential to be great if it was properly finished.

 

[ga♥]

It's a heal spell Jedi Master Radek, and it was to be used on the mage trapped in the hexagonal machine. But yes, there's also the freedom spell guy, which is another example.

Sorry, I never enjoyed ToB, too linear, too much "Hello Child of Bhaal", no content, no quests, Saradush which is supposed to be a city, literally the size of a village in fuckistan, no reactivity.

There are also retarded plot holes, like Abizagail being a great wyrm (so at least 1000 years old?) and being a bhaal spawn, with another great wyrm son, Draconis (which is misteriously not a blue dragon even if the father is one) so put another 1000 years, when Bhaalspawns are supposed to be of the same age more or less ....

 

[Elu]

Yes it's not a breathtaking stuff, but still some improvements over more lineal, combat oriented quests from previous games.

Eh. You had multiple ways of finding Bandits' Camp in BG1 and an option to infiltrate. Charm spell used outside of combat could give you plenty of additional background info, there was plenty of quests that involved saving people turned to stone (from Branwen to the guy with Balduran Helmet). You had actual heist-type quests for thieves. Not exactly non-combat, but there were some little touches like dispelling weapons of battle horrors etc

In BG2, aside from what ga♥ mentioned, there was an option to uncharm the bodyguard of lord d'Arnise, cast healing spell to defeat the monster in underground temple area, probably some other instances I don't remember. They were pretty consistent throughout the series.

Sorry, I never enjoyed ToB, too linear, too much "Hello Child of Bhaal", no content, no quests, Saradush which is supposed to be a city, literally the size of a village in fuckistan, no reactivity.

I like Throne of Bhaal for what it is, cheesy, over the top send off.

Saradush I thought was probably the best part. Great atmosphere of the siege. I mean, medieval cities/towns were often quite small, Beregost in BG1 is basically the same size. I get it that in official Forgotten Realms material it was maybe supposed to be more grandoise, but - who cares, really?

There are also retarded plot holes, like Abizagail being a great wyrm (so at least 1000 years old?) and being a bhaal spawn, with another great wyrm son, Draconis (which is misteriously not a blue dragon even if the father is one) so put another 1000 years, when Bhaalspawns are supposed to be of the same age more or less ....

It's not like BG was overly consistent at any point. They were playing fast and loose with the setting from the start. Honestly, it's hardly a big problem, since you can easily assume that Bhaal was making preparations for a long time. I don't remeber it was ever specified, when he started.

Either way, establishing a timeline seems to be prevalent problem in crpgs. Even in PS:T, while it wasn't evident on the surface, if you pay attention to some quests (mainly those that concern the paranoid incarnation, I think), you can spot some contradictions. And it's blatantly obvious from the start, how messed up the timeline is in NWN2 (the war that happened maybe two decades ago and no one remembers anything, even better, people managed to confuse who fought whom, while various NPCs refer to it interchangeably as something recent or from distant past). I would guess it's caused by the specifics of development - different writers working on different parts, having ideas evolving in slightly different directions...

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

You could also cast Heal on Yakman in Watcher's Keep. I remember originally casting Restoration on him and was disappointed that it didn't work. It seemed like a better choice. ToB wasn't spectacular, but it doesn't deserve to get ragged on. It is the great disappointment of an age that they didn't get to make a full game. With all the experience and ready tools they had with the IE, they could have really pushed the envelope and made it spectacular. Still, as a conclusion, it works. There is something to be said for concision, and the game ends on a satisfying note--particularly if you install Ascension.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[ga♥]

It's a heal spell Jedi Master Radek, and it was to be used on the mage trapped in the hexagonal machine

what happens if you do so?

He thanks you and gives you a magical sword as a reward. If you just kill him, you don't get the sword.

 

[ga♥]

Saradush I thought was probably the best part. Great atmosphere of the siege. I mean, medieval cities/towns were often quite small, Beregost in BG1 is basically the same size. I get it that in official Forgotten Realms material it was maybe supposed to be more grandoise, but - who cares, really?

I agreee Saradush is the best part, prolly they started with that. But Beregost the same size... I think you are misremembering. Beregost was YUGEEE compared to Saradush, and you could also enter and explore every house if you wanted.

Just as an example, Saradush has 1 tavern... Beregost has like 5?

Also, many more quests in it (most weren't really great quest but still).

Either way, establishing a timeline seems to be prevalent problem in crpgs. Even in PS:T, while it wasn't evident on the surface, if you pay attention to some quests (mainly those that concern the paranoid incarnation, I think), you can spot some contradictions. And it's blatantly obvious from the start, how messed up the timeline is in NWN2 (the war that happened maybe two decades ago and no one remembers anything, even better, people managed to confuse who fought whom, while various NPCs refer to it interchangeably as something recent or from distant past). I would guess it's caused by the specifics of development - different writers working on different parts, having ideas evolving in slightly different directions...

Agreed PS:T has some problems on the timeline of the incarnations. IIRC even when the practial incarnation "caged" Vhailor made little sense. I think they tried to bring most of what happened to the practical and paranoid incarnations in the end, while at the start they didnt have this in mind (like many more incarnations). But it's really more subtle and did a "good enough job" IMHO.
A blue dragon having a brown dragon son really makes no sense and its in your face.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Eh. You had multiple ways of finding Bandits' Camp in BG1 and an option to infiltrate.

True. However it's one of the rare instances in the game when you have few options to do the quest in different ways. May feeling is that in ToB that kind of quest structure is more systematic and the general approach to quests is different. Apart from things mentioned you can get into the keep in Saradush in 2 different ways. However the fact that the game was rushed may be the reason I give some extra credit to ToB, because I have a feeling that if it was properly finished we would have nonlinearity in most quests.

I like Throne of Bhaal for what it is, cheesy, over the top send off.

Epicness works best when you worked for it from the bottom.

 

[Lagole Gon]

There are also retarded plot holes, like Abizagail being a great wyrm (so at least 1000 years old?) and being a bhaal spawn, with another great wyrm son, Draconis (which is misteriously not a blue dragon even if the father is one) so put another 1000 years, when Bhaalspawns are supposed to be of the same age more or less ....

Well... nobody said Bhaal never ever fucked without a rubber before. Maybe he's a regular bastard, not a safety measure bastard.

 

[Theldaran]

Eh, you had two distinct paths, the do-gooder path, and the maniac mass-killer ivul path. Like with KOTOR, where it was nigh impossible to play a Grey Jedi (even though you had one in your party), the Neutral path was nonexistent, and consisted of not pumping your Reputation too much to Heroic levels, or mixing good actions and bad actions.

The games are too old to include things like Stat- or Class-based dialogue options, that would be invented later.

But that doesn't change the inherent replayability of the games, even if it's only to play different parties and classes.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

The games are too old to include things like Stat- or Class-based dialogue options, that would be invented later.

There a [Intelligence] stat checks in Kotor 2.

Icewind Dale had class based dialogue options.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

dispelling weapons of battle horrors

I didn't know that, thanks. I'll try it on my next run.

 

[hell bovine]

The games are too old to include things like Stat- or Class-based dialogue options, that would be invented later.

There a [Intelligence] stat checks in Kotor 2.

Icewind Dale had class based dialogue options.

IWD had stat checks in dialogues too.

 

[gunman]

Starting over BG1, just rolled a 97

 

[CappenVarra]

Starting over BG1, just rolled a 97

ranger or paladin?

 

[gunman]

ranger or paladin?

Human Conjurer.
Want to dual class later for a solo-run.
With familiar he has 12 HP at level 1 and smashes hobgoblins in melee with a dagger.

 

[CappenVarra]

ranger or paladin?

Human Conjurer.
Want to dual class later for a solo-run.
With familiar he has 12 HP at level 1 and smashes hobgoblins in melee with a dagger.

familiar? in BG1?

 

[Ninjerk]

ranger or paladin?

Human Conjurer.
Want to dual class later for a solo-run.
With familiar he has 12 HP at level 1 and smashes hobgoblins in melee with a dagger.

familiar? in BG1?

EE

 

[Lagole Gon]

Portrait AI is pretty cool.

BG1

Spoiler

BG2

Spoiler

Sadly, it can't handle helmets, strong expressions, strong shadows and so on. I suppose it's possible to prepare the troublesome portraits before using the AI toy.

 

[octavius]

Not bad. They look more like real people now.

 

[NJClaw]

Cute. Looks like that insufferable French actress, but cuter.

 

[Ramnozack]

Portrait AI is pretty cool.

BG1

Spoiler

BG2

Spoiler

Sadly, it can't handle helmets, strong expressions, strong shadows and so on. I suppose it's possible to prepare the troublesome portraits before using the AI toy.

Fuck, that anomen portrait looks disturbingly similar to me, it's creeping me out