Baldur's Gate The Baldur's Gate Series Thread

[Lagole Gon]

Funny how BG2tards criticize BG3 for being a "theme park", the irony.

BG3 starts with main character on illithid SPACE SHIP damaged by githyanki DRAGON RIDERS flying through ABYSS. You have an illithid TADPOLE in your brain, but it's not a regular TADPOLE it was modified with NETHERIL SHADOW MAGIC, it gives you SPECIAL POWERS and IMAGINARY WAIFU FROM YOUR DREAMS.
And if you are playing a pre-made character, let's say Gale, in addition to all that you can have A NETHERIL NUCLEAR WARHEAD IN YOUR CHEST.

And that's only the early part of the game. There is no fucking comparsion.

 

[whydoibother]

Funny how BG2tards criticize BG3 for being a "theme park", the irony.

BG3 starts with main character on illithid SPACE SHIP damaged by githyanki DRAGON RIDERS flying through ABYSS. You have an illithid TADPOLE in your brain, but it's not a regular TADPOLE it was modified with NETHERIL SHADOW MAGIC, it gives you SPECIAL POWERS and IMAGINARY WAIFU FROM YOUR DREAMS.
And if you are playing a pre-made character, let's say Gale, in addition to all that you can have A NETHERIL NUCLEAR WARHEAD IN YOUR CHEST.

And that's only the early part of the game. There is no fucking comparsion.

Nice caricature. The actual gameplay is:
>you are a shipwreck survivor
>you need to find where you are
>you fight bandits and goblins
>you recruit some allies along the way
>you reach a village where you can resupply and help the locals
You know, a low level D&D campaign. It has a fancy coat of paint, but its not a theme park that you go through to watch the highlights from your seat. You interact with a classical adventure.
Of all the tings to complain about, fuck.

 

[Nano]

Nice caricature. The actual gameplay is:
>you are a shipwreck survivor
>you need to find where you are
>you fight bandits and goblins
>you recruit some allies along the way
>you reach a village where you can resupply and help the locals
You know, a low level D&D campaign. It has a fancy coat of paint, but its not a theme park that you go through to watch the highlights from your seat. You interact with a classical adventure.
Of all the tings to complain about, fuck.

Either you're being sarcastic or this is a braindead take.

 

[Lagole Gon]

You know, a low level D&D campaign. It has a fancy coat of paint, but its not a theme park that you go through to watch the highlights from your seat.

Paint job does matter. It really can change the atmosphere of the entire thing.

It is detrimental to a low level adventure to start with 2-3 high levels themes in the very opening. And then just go back to goblins.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

BG2 is in no way a better than BG1 game.

This is not a serious post.

 

[Swen]

Funny how BG2tards criticize BG3 for being a "theme park", the irony.

BG3 starts with main character on illithid SPACE SHIP damaged by githyanki DRAGON RIDERS flying through ABYSS. You have an illithid TADPOLE in your brain, but it's not a regular TADPOLE it was modified with NETHERIL SHADOW MAGIC, it gives you SPECIAL POWERS and IMAGINARY WAIFU FROM YOUR DREAMS.
And if you are playing a pre-made character, let's say Gale, in addition to all that you can have A NETHERIL NUCLEAR WARHEAD IN YOUR CHEST.

And that's only the early part of the game. There is no fucking comparsion.

"NOOOOOooo u can't have an epic beginning and cool magic in the beginning of an rpg, u need to have a run of the mill boring low level start!!!"

 

[Ludwig von Eisenthal]

severely limits replay value. I think that's the reason I only played it three times as of yet.

Hmm....

Three times compared to the (at least) dozen times I played BG. Three times is not much replay value in my book for a classic game. Nowadays "replay value" means you may play a game a second time. But that's because most games are shitty nowadays. I hardly manage to play a modern RPG to the end.

 

[whydoibother]

IWD is a completely different experience. It's well designed, gives the player much possibility to experiment with different parties and spell combinations. But it felt totally on rails, there were almost no quests apart from the main quest, the world was well depicted stylistically (I loved the giant Dorn's Deep complex and the Severed Hand) but there was absolutely no free exploration at all to do. You just followed the main story. That strong focus may be a good characteristic to some but for me it severely limits replay value. I think that's the reason I only played it three times as of yet.

I feel the opposite. IWD is not about story or quests, its about encounters, so its easier to replay if you build a different party. Since the experience of the game is 90% just combat, and you can dramatically change how you fight depending on what party you build, it feels different on repeat. On the other hand, story based RPGs usually feel very similar on repeat playthroughs, with minimal differences here or there depending on choices.
The notable exceptions, like how The Witcher 2 had an entirely different act in the middle depending on a choice, are of course major incline, but they are the exceptions to the rule.

 

[AN4RCHID]

I wish more modern games would take the BG approach to quest presentation. An NPC will mention a bandit camp to the south east, but there's no exact location given or even an indication that it is a "Quest". There's no checklist of side quests to mark off or "New Quest", "Quest Completed" notifications. I realize this is more a mark of the game's age than a deliberate design decision, but it's refreshing nevertheless.

This evening I installed the Tales of The Sword Coast expansion because I feel I'm getting near the final act of the main game (in Cloakwood Forest now, getting wrecked by these Ettercaps). The disc comes with this fucking awesome demo movie for Planescape: Torment -

 

[soulburner]

I would donate a liver for a first person RPG with the kind of design like in this trailer.

 

[whydoibother]

I wish more modern games would take the BG approach to quest presentation. An NPC will mention a bandit camp to the south east, but there's no exact location given or even an indication that it is a "Quest". There's no checklist of side quests to mark off or "New Quest", "Quest Completed" notifications. I realize this is more a mark of the game's age than a deliberate design decision, but it's refreshing nevertheless.

First time playing Skyrim, I see a mine. Bandits guarding it. Inside a corpse. Letter shows they kidnapped the guy to force him to work. No quest, just stuff on the ground. In the nearby lake, underwater cave. Inside, a corpse. Some adventurer went diving, drowned. Not a quest, just hand placed micro story. Up the river, an old woman in a hut selling herbs. If you lockpick a trap door, you see some witchy stuff. Being discovered, the witch attacks you. Not a quest, just a little event.
Man, the first ~1 hour of Skyrim felt like I'm going to be playing a really good game.

 

[Steezus]

I wish more modern games would take the BG approach to quest presentation. An NPC will mention a bandit camp to the south east, but there's no exact location given or even an indication that it is a "Quest". There's no checklist of side quests to mark off or "New Quest", "Quest Completed" notifications. I realize this is more a mark of the game's age than a deliberate design decision, but it's refreshing nevertheless.

This evening I installed the Tales of The Sword Coast expansion because I feel I'm getting near the final act of the main game (in Cloakwood Forest now, getting wrecked by these Ettercaps). The disc comes with this fucking awesome demo movie for Planescape: Torment -

Yo, I remember that! I think the video came also with FO1.

What is that giant green thing @0:34 tho? Don't remember that from the game.

 

[Modron]

What is that giant green thing @0:34 tho? Don't remember that from the game.

I would assume that is coaxmetal in his more intact days.

 

[onemananadhisdroid]

One of the side effects of BG1's wilderness oft just being, well wilderness, was the stark contrast when you finally arrived in Baldur's Gate.

Whereas in particular the early part of the main quest is -- certainly by modern game standards -- almost a D&D surivival wilderness simulator; the change in pace when you finally get to the game's main city and the thing is just (comparably) packed with NPCs and stuff is freaking huge.

Obviously the upcoming BG3 won't replicate quite anything like it also, as Larian's map design quite nicely fits the theme/amusement park school of design (with subsequently Bioware pioneering the movie set piece kind of world design).

I'm sorry, but "ingenious use of useless space" and the like reads like something one can find in the modern "this game is really shite, 9/10" reviews. I don't have anything against open worlds, exploration, sense of adventure, yada yada, but most of those BG1 areas are simply empty and boring. Add to that the fact that the encounter design in them is what it is and the rare quest you can find is... eh... not particularly stellar in its design (10/10, GOTY!) and the bottom line does not look very good. The reality is that it probably wasn't some sort of design goal, but simply the solution they came up with when the game was shifted from rts design to crpg when they already had assets and maps ready. There's some cool stuff to be found in the game, but that part ain't it.

To an extent, this is actually true. For instance, the actual content that you find if you find it -- a lot of that was sort of a last minute job, as QA found the maps to be "too empty".

Content trickled in. Players could leave Candlekeep and explore the surrounding wilderness. A few monsters patrolled areas. More were added as artists and programmers brought them online. Every week or so, large chunks of the game were plugged in. The developers focused on fleshing out the main path first by building areas important to the story. Sometimes they sprinkled in characters, monsters, and quests as they worked. Other times they backtracked and added color to regions later.

The Infinity Engine’s flexibility came in handy. Four months out from launching Baldur’s Gate, Interplay’s QA testers opined that many areas in the world felt empty. The game was solid in terms of bugs and glitches, but was lacking in things to see, do, talk with, and kill. For the last two months, BioWare’s team made a big push, churning out more characters, items, and quests for players to undertake using the tools Greig had crafted.

Beneath a Starless Sky: Pillars of Eternity and the Infinity Engine Era of RPGs | Shacknews


I've personally actually described BG1 as a happy accident before (subsequent Bioware games were all of a completely different mold).

Don't worry if you don't like this aspect. You're perfectly sane and normal. There's a reason why game worlds nowadays mostly are as they are.


Mostly.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

I feel I'm getting near the final act of the main game (in Cloakwood Forest now, getting wrecked by these Ettercaps).

Unless I'm seriously mistaken, no, you're not.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Funny how BG2tards criticize BG3 for being a "theme park", the irony.

BG3 starts with main character on illithid SPACE SHIP damaged by githyanki DRAGON RIDERS flying through ABYSS. You have an illithid TADPOLE in your brain, but it's not a regular TADPOLE it was modified with NETHERIL SHADOW MAGIC, it gives you SPECIAL POWERS and IMAGINARY WAIFU FROM YOUR DREAMS.
And if you are playing a pre-made character, let's say Gale, in addition to all that you can have A NETHERIL NUCLEAR WARHEAD IN YOUR CHEST.

And that's only the early part of the game. There is no fucking comparsion.

BG1 starts with you in candlekeep, a highly guarded fortress library of the world's most valuable and dangerous knowledge which is also incapable of keeping you safe because the danger is so great.
So you adventure with your stepfather -- a high ranking Harper who used to fight dragons and is friends with Elminster -- and watch him get murdered.
Then you are joined by two more Harper agents.

why do you guys always pretend these games are something they aren't? "wow bg1 was such a low stakes adventure..." ???? Only if you knew nothing at all about the forgotten realms I guess?

And if you are playing a pre-made character, let's say Gale, in addition to all that you can have A NETHERIL NUCLEAR WARHEAD IN YOUR CHEST.

wow that's really amazing, imagine if it turned out your character was actually a demigod or something

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

IMAGINARY WAIFU FROM YOUR DREAMS.

I would not call this thing a "waifu." Especially given the degeneracy game journos are fantasizing about with it.

Spoiler

 

[Steezus]

Funny how BG2tards criticize BG3 for being a "theme park", the irony.

BG3 starts with main character on illithid SPACE SHIP damaged by githyanki DRAGON RIDERS flying through ABYSS. You have an illithid TADPOLE in your brain, but it's not a regular TADPOLE it was modified with NETHERIL SHADOW MAGIC, it gives you SPECIAL POWERS and IMAGINARY WAIFU FROM YOUR DREAMS.
And if you are playing a pre-made character, let's say Gale, in addition to all that you can have A NETHERIL NUCLEAR WARHEAD IN YOUR CHEST.

And that's only the early part of the game. There is no fucking comparsion.

BG1 starts with you in candlekeep, a highly guarded fortress library of the world's most valuable and dangerous knowledge which is also incapable of keeping you safe because the danger is so great.
So you adventure with your stepfather -- a high ranking Harper who used to fight dragons and is friends with Elminster -- and watch him get murdered.
Then you are joined by two more Harper agents.

why do you guys always pretend these games are something they aren't? "wow bg1 was such a low stakes adventure..." ???? Only if you knew nothing at all about the forgotten realms I guess?

Imagine writing this with a straight face thinking both are on the same level.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Funny how BG2tards criticize BG3 for being a "theme park", the irony.

BG3 starts with main character on illithid SPACE SHIP damaged by githyanki DRAGON RIDERS flying through ABYSS. You have an illithid TADPOLE in your brain, but it's not a regular TADPOLE it was modified with NETHERIL SHADOW MAGIC, it gives you SPECIAL POWERS and IMAGINARY WAIFU FROM YOUR DREAMS.
And if you are playing a pre-made character, let's say Gale, in addition to all that you can have A NETHERIL NUCLEAR WARHEAD IN YOUR CHEST.

And that's only the early part of the game. There is no fucking comparsion.

BG1 starts with you in candlekeep, a highly guarded fortress library of the world's most valuable and dangerous knowledge which is also incapable of keeping you safe because the danger is so great.
So you adventure with your stepfather -- a high ranking Harper who used to fight dragons and is friends with Elminster -- and watch him get murdered.
Then you are joined by two more Harper agents.

why do you guys always pretend these games are something they aren't? "wow bg1 was such a low stakes adventure..." ???? Only if you knew nothing at all about the forgotten realms I guess?

Imagine writing this with a straight face thinking both are on the same level.

I get it, you don't know anything about forgotten realms so they're not the same to you.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

You know, a low level D&D campaign. It has a fancy coat of paint, but its not a theme park that you go through to watch the highlights from your seat.

Paint job does matter. It really can change the atmosphere of the entire thing.

It is detrimental to a low level adventure to start with 2-3 high levels themes in the very opening. And then just go back to goblins.

What are you talking about? I'm just dropping the kids off at school in my van. Vans are very ordinary family vehicles. Your criticisms are overblown.

 

[Nano]

BG1 - You start off by fighting wolves and bandits out in the countryside.
BG3 - You start off by breaking out of a spaceship run by tentacle people.

rusty_shackleford:

 

[rusty_shackleford]

BG1 - You start off by fighting wolves and bandits out in the countryside.

But you don't.
The very first encounter most people in BG1 will even have is an assassin.

 

[Storyfag]

BG1 starts with you in candlekeep, a highly guarded fortress library of the world's most valuable and dangerous knowledge which is also incapable of keeping you safe because the danger is so great.
So you adventure with your stepfather -- a high ranking Harper who used to fight dragons and is friends with Elminster -- and watch him get murdered.
Then you are joined by two more Harper agents.

why do you guys always pretend these games are something they aren't? "wow bg1 was such a low stakes adventure..." ???? Only if you knew nothing at all about the forgotten realms I guess?

Shoo, Rusty! We had this discussion before. Keep it contained in the BG3 thread.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

BG1 starts with you in candlekeep, a highly guarded fortress library of the world's most valuable and dangerous knowledge which is also incapable of keeping you safe because the danger is so great.
So you adventure with your stepfather -- a high ranking Harper who used to fight dragons and is friends with Elminster -- and watch him get murdered.
Then you are joined by two more Harper agents.

why do you guys always pretend these games are something they aren't? "wow bg1 was such a low stakes adventure..." ???? Only if you knew nothing at all about the forgotten realms I guess?

Shoo, Rusty! We had this discussion before. Keep it contained in the BG3 thread.

I'm tired of reading "BG1 was such a low stakes adventure!!!" tho
maybe if you just skipped over all the dialogue and thought it was an adventure about solving the iron crisis and you knew absolutely nothing about FR?

how many other games can you say that in the first hour you're moved from fantasy fort knox for your safety, your secret service bodyguard gets murdered, then have two more secret service bodyguards meet you to protect you because you're such a highly valuable target?

 

[Chippy]

I would donate a liver for a first person RPG with the kind of design like in this trailer.

I wont derail the thread, but that's always something I thought Bethesda missed in the Elder Scrolls games - a scaled enemy like Coaxmetal. Since all their games are mostly visual dumb stuff for casuals anyway, they could have at least got something impressive like that in it.

Although they'd probably give it HP in the millions and have you hacking at its little toes for weeks.