The Codex’s Best Computer RPGs (pre-Diablo)

[mondblut]

So people like me and others can be more selective at which older games are the best because I cant play everything and if you dont use the scoring system it makes it much harder to differentiate.

Nah, you should just go check out my glorious thread-series and start playing everything dutifully from 1977 onwards. There, I've just saved you the cost of expensive GPU upgrades for the next three decades!

...by having him kill himself after a few minutes of playing a 1973 2-bit dnd version produced for abacus connected to oscillograph?

 

[Cyberarmy]

2 points for each game.

Death Knights of Krynn (SSI)
Betrayal at Krondor (Dynamix Inc)
Eye of the Beholder (Westwood)
Dark Sun: Shattered Lands (SSI)
Birthright: The Gorgon's Alliance (Synergistic Software)


honorary mentions

Spoiler

Ultima Underworld
Albion
Daggerfall
Al-Qadim: The Genie's Curse (Cyberlore)
Lands of Lore

Those were the days...

 

[Decado]

First of all, I very much applaud your efforts Deuce Traveler, so what I'm going to say is by no means aimed at you. I would just like to point out that all such "everybody is invited" polls are by their nature popularity polls, so the resulting list will by no means represent the "best" cRPGs of this era, but the most played and most popular ones. If what you really wanted to do was a popularity poll, then I rest my case (but also urge you to reconsider using the word "best" in the title).

However, if we are determined to come up with the "best" RPGs, only those who have a comprehensive view of the games released in the 1980-1996 period should be allowed to enter the poll. Otherwise, how could you say with any degree of confidence that game "X" is "best" if you only played 5-10 games out of the possible 200+ candidates?. That's a lot of games, so most people would naturally not be allowed to vote. On the other hand, with the current way of doing things, the opinions of the handful of people who do qualify would be grossly drowned out by the rest of voters. In effect, you're basically adding a lot of random noise to the actually useful data (say 50+ people who played less than 10 games from this era, versus those 4-5 monocled individuals who played 100+).

For the record, when Deuce Traveler suggested we do this, that's what I thought we would end up doing -- basically, forming a "council" of retro RPG "experts" (ugh) and then just deciding as a group through votes/arguments, in much the same way you'd do for the Oscars, the Game Awards, etc. I didn't realize until later on that he was planning to put the vote to the Codex. Which, to be clear, I have no problem with. But now the poor bastard has to manually add up points from what is likely to be 200+ votes.

 

[Decado]

Then again, I really don't see any point in having a council of wise men declare that Krondor is #1 and Dungeon Master is #2. If you wanna do a curated list, I think it doesn't make sense to make it a ranking, but rather like a guide: "The pre-Diablo RPGs you should play and why they matter".

This is a fantastic idea and one I think we should implement. We could cobble together a bunch of writers from the Codex and do a whole series. It would be a lot of fun. I'd be happy write something on Krondor, QFG, etc.

 

[JarlFrank]

Then again, I really don't see any point in having a council of wise men declare that Krondor is #1 and Dungeon Master is #2. If you wanna do a curated list, I think it doesn't make sense to make it a ranking, but rather like a guide: "The pre-Diablo RPGs you should play and why they matter".

This is a fantastic idea and one I think we should implement. We could cobble together a bunch of writers from the Codex and do a whole series. It would be a lot of fun. I'd be happy write something on Krondor, QFG, etc.

I'd be happy to write something about my bae Dark Sun: Shattered Lands.

 

[octavius]

Wouldn't such a project be rather similar to Felipepepe's CRPG book?

 

[Grauken]

3 - Wizardry 7: Crusaders of the Dark Savant
3 - Mordor: The Depths of Dejenol
2 - Wizardry 6: Bane of the Cosmic Forge
2 - Pools of Darkness

 

[Cunt Dickula!?]

The rule with the points looks like the system is very susceptible to noobs like me who don't know many old games to make the votes of connoisseurs useless.

Nevertheless:
5 points to Might and Magic 3: Isles of Terra and
5 points to Might and Magic: World of Xeen

 

[Bruma Hobo]

That would be Ultima VII, Ultima IV is the anti-combatfag choice, which is not the same.

Oh, but it is. How do you think the decline has began? "Gee, violence is bad, I don't like number crunching, why can't somebody think of akshually Playing Roles?"

Funny, but that's how incline began back when RPGs derived from wagames, RPG mechanics are there to let the player explore a setting instead of just popping moles, and Ultima IV was pure Incline in that regard. But I know you're not a pure combatfag (or at least not a retarded one) so you must understand what I'm talking about, otherwise you wouldn't like games like Darklands or Ultima Underworld which are definitely not crunchers.

 

[Gaznak]

Damn, I forgot the thing that must be voted for.

If it's possible I'd ask to change my vote as follows:

Legend: Four Crystals of Trazere (with sequel) = 2 points (removing Hexx: Heresy of the Wizard, it's enough of L:FCoT to present Taglione brothers' genius here)
Demon's Winter = 2 points
Might & Magic III = 2 points

adding

Perihelion = 2 points (the most atmospheric RPG ever, how could I forget about it?)

and I still insist on Crystal Dragon, sorry = 2 points (I see it was in the expanded preliminary list so it will be no big crime to vote for it nonetheless). It's better than Dungeon Master anyway.

 

[Dedup]

3 Points
Hero's Quest (Quest for Glory)
Pool of Radiance
Dark Sun: Shattered Lands

1 Point
Betrayal at Krondor

 

[Melan]

3 points

• Wizardry VII: Crusaders of the Dark Savant (the defintiive CRPG, with magic-meets-technology, rival factions, a "world-puzzle", hokey philosophy, hot space chicks, and devilish fights/puzzles)
• Ultima V: Warriors of Destiny (Ultima at its best: an epic story that grows through exploration, puzzle-solving, and always finding something new)

2 points

• Ultima VII: The Black Gate (the modern, high-interaction CRPG, with excellent, well-written dialogues and quests, superb exploration. I used to prefer the more edgelordish Serpent Isle, but now I recognise TBG as the superior game. The original bread baking and diaper flinging RPG!)

1 point

• Fate: Gates of Dawn (underrated YUGE Euro-RPG with massive wilderness and dungeon sections)
• Dragon Wars (so creative and well-made that it greatly transcends its technical limitations; Mesopotamian background a major plus)

Honourary Mentions

Spoiler

• Ultima VII: Serpent Isle (moar! Ultima! ambitious, dark fantasy, dares to bring on the apocalypse, kinda buggy and gets obscure halfway through)
• Worlds of Ultima: Savage Empires (exploration, great crafting, creative puzzles; criminally underrated)
• Wizardry IV: The Return of Werdna (solid concept; unfortunately, never really inspired a generation of new games)
• Pool of Radiance (the quintessential AD&D romp, Boredur's Gate BTFO)
• Darklands (so many great ideas, procedural generation does not suck at all)
• Betrayal at Krondor (RPGs generally don't do "story" right, but this game does, and does it on a phenomenally shitty flight simulation engine)

* * *
I have some bones to pick with the list of suggestions, since if Quest for Glory - an adventure game if there ever was one - is an RPG, then Lords of Midnight definitely deserves to be an RPG. OTOH if the list is strict, then Ultima Underworld should not be an RPG either, and Star Control II is very iffy. Still, I have decided to vote on this almost prestigious list nevertheless.

 

[GreyViper]

So many good classics so few points.
Here is my pick for this poll.

Dusk of the Gods (Event Horizon) +1
Ultima 7: The Black Gate (Origin) + 3
Dark Sun: Shattered Lands (SSI) + 2
Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall (Bethesda) +2
Ravenloft: Stone Prophet (Dreamforge) + 2

 

[Decado]

A game's impact on the industry is far more important, and how that impact has influenced things today.

This is not a "most influential games ever" poll.

Exactly and important to remember. A lot of the most influential games came out in the 70s and 80s, but I wouldn't call most (or even any) of them "Great" or "The Best."

 

[felipepepe]

Wouldn't such a project be rather similar to Felipepepe's CRPG book?

The book has 600 pages and over 400 RPGs, it's very different from something more straightforward like a single article on like 10 games.

 

[octavius]

Yes, it will start as "10 games".

 

[Decado]

I wouldn't even do 10, I'd do 5. And I'd do five separate posts, and make a big hullabaloo about them. Put them on social etc.

 

[jackofshadows]

Why not do that for whichever top n rated games that will end up here?

 

[Decado]

Dibs on Betrayal at Krondor.

 

[Tombo]

Betrayal at Krondor: 5 points
Exile 3: The Ruined World: 5 points

 

[Joggerino]

I allocate 5 points to the only game I've played on this list:
Princess Maker 2

 

[Nifft Batuff]

3 Chaos Strikes Back
2 Pool of Radiance
2 Eye of Beholdrer 2
2 Dark Sun 1
1 Perihelion

 

[thesheeep]

3: Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall
2: Dark Sun: Shattered Lands
2: Might and Magic: Clouds of Xeen
2: Realms of Arkania: Star Trail
1: Anvil of Dawn

 

[dacencora]

Might and Magic III: Isles of Terra - 5 points
Wasteland - 5 points

 

[Sherry]

Hi!

Gosh I wasn't even tagged in the list but okay= because it is hard to get a mouseys age but it is the mouse from Ultima so where those points go should be no surprise to anyone right so thank-you for puttinbv this together Duece it so going to be hard and I will show my work for those extra marks just like the last time somneone else did something like this about the games to see which ones were the faovrite of the community just it was nots in this specific like Felipepe so nice to recognize them they are really hard working so here we go okay? okay!

(10)

4 POINTS

Ultima VI - The False Prophet. (10-4 = 6)

3 POINTS

Ultima V - Warriors of Destiny. (6-3 = 3)

2 POINTS

Ultima IV - Quest of the Avatar. (3-2 = 1)

1 POINT

Ultima VII: The Black Gate (1-1 = 0)

Holy they are all Ultima games but of course they are you little mouse hehee *squeak* because started all with Ultima 4 watching my brother play it I was too little still but how could anyone not fall in love with the world and the people and you would meet thema gain when you went back years later when the next installment came out and how they moved around the cloud shadows and how they would go home or sleep and work but that did not come until a lot after in the series but Ultima 4 yeah of course because it was the very first I ever saw so why is it not nigher? Ultima 6 was the first Ultima game I was able to play on my own and it was my adventure not trying to live off what my brother was doing in the world in Ultima 4 so it got the most points for me although both have a special place in my heart but there was that freedom of playing my first ever video game myself and doing whatever I wanted and taking as long as I wanted right? Ultima 5 I was two years older when it came out and I remember the cool books and the adventure log from Lord British in the box of their venture in the Underdark and actually finding the location in game and following the description as you went into the Underdark was great to try and find where Lord British and his men ended up I think that is a great way to get the imagination flowing and it made a strong connection with me so that is why it gets three points okay? Okay! I had to get Ultima 7 in too I remember playing in summer during University so it was nice to go back to Britannia after all those years and how the engine changed from Ultima 6 but it just lost that quirky colour that Ultima 6 brought it is too bad the window for the world wasn't bigger oh well so there you go and Merry Christmas and have a wonderful New Year all the best okay? Okay!

Thanks,
Sherry