The Codex’s Best Computer RPGs (pre-Diablo)

[Lady Error]

- Dungeon crawlers with real-time combat (aka DM-likes)

DM is around 11th place. That's probably the most underrepresented subgenre there

Ultima Underworld (currently 2nd place). Not a blobber, but a real-time dungeon crawler for sure. Daggerfall too.

- Dungeon crawlers with tactical turn-based combat (Gold Box, Uukrul, Realms of Arkania, Perihelion, etc)

Pool of Radiance, 8th; Star Trail, 10th. I'd probably include Betrayal at Krondor in this subcategory as well, which is currently at 1st place.

Isn't Dark Sun basically a new Goldbox engine?

 

[Butter]

Dark Sun isn't a dungeon crawler, and it doesn't have blobber exploration.

 

[Lady Error]

Dark Sun isn't a dungeon crawler, and it doesn't have blobber exploration.

Yeah, so it's still another subgenre, top-down view and turn-based. That's 5 subgenres in total and whatever Princess Maker 2 is.

 

[PorkaMorka]

It's isometric (or at least, it has that not-really isometric perspective that they call isometric in video games).

There might be something interesting to say about how DS:SL shares the isometric perspective with later post 1996 isometric Codex favorites, like Fallout, Baldur's Gate, etc.

But I can't think of anything to say, other than to point out that it has more of a modern UI and graphics than a lot of the other games on the list.

 

[V_K]

Ultima Underworld (currently 2nd place). Not a blobber, but a real-time dungeon crawler for sure. Daggerfall too.

Well, he specified "DM-likes", which it's not.

DS:SL shares the isometric perspective with later post 1996 isometric Codex favorites, like Fallout, Baldur's Gate, etc.

The funnier thing is that its setting is an amalgamation of the two - post-apocalyptic DnD high fantasy in a wasteland.

 

[V_K]

Dark Sun isn't a dungeon crawler, and it doesn't have blobber exploration.

Yeah, so it's still another subgenre, top-down view and turn-based. That's 5 subgenres in total and whatever Princess Maker 2 is.

What's really remarkable is that the top 5 games alone represent 4 different styles of combat - TB tactical, TB blobber, First-person action RT, RTwP.

 

[Rincewind]

One does not play RTBs for their combat. Having said that, the combat in DM and CSB is not too bad, since they are relatively slow games, with noticeable cool down times (unlike for example Evil's Doom), and with different weapon attacks. You can also play them (DM, at least) without using that lame two step dance.

Yeah in these games the dungeon itself is the main adversary. Combat is only there for variety and to create some urgency and tension to the exploration and puzzle solving.

But I'd say there is more to the combat than just the two-step waltz; sometimes these games overwhelm you with a large number of dangerous foes, for example the Upper Dwarven Ruins in EotB I (Level 4) with the poisonous Giant Spiders and their constantly respawning spider-web barriers, or the Uggardians (the floating, fast-moving, fireball throwing spirits) in Grimrock I. Defeating opponents like these require some level of tactics as well, which usually boils down to playing some gloriously chaotic dungeon Pac-Man and luring them into rooms where you can finish them one by one. You either like it or not (I do); I for one think it adds a lot to the general atmosphere and sense of danger of the dungeoneering.

 

[Berengar]

This thread is making me think I should move World of Xeen up in my backlog.

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

For instance, I really like dungeon crawlers where I have to map things, so sure, I could just throw away half of the list, but subgenre specific lists would be better in my opinion. Especially for people who are completly new to these games and have no idea about them at all, but for instance are looking for good story based games. Then you don't want to recommend them Wizardry or EoB... you get my drift.

I mean, you could make such threads. We've already got one for blobbers, since Thac0's Butthurt Dungeon thread has been around for a while. Though admittedly, I'm kind of curious if there's enough to fill out threads like Ultima-clones and RPG/adventure games, since I don't think I've heard of any good ones outside of the big titles in their respective sub-genres.

 

[octavius]

This thread is making me think I should move World of Xeen up in my backlog.

Give me 2000 years and a pointy hat and I will clear your backlog.

 

[Slimu]

Dark Sun: Shattered Lands - 2 points
Might and Magic 1 - 4 points
Ultima underworld - 2 points
Betrayal at Krondor - 2 points

 

[Straight elf]

Quest for Glory 4 - 4 points
Quest for Glory 3 - 3 points
Albion - 3 points

 

[Atomboy]

Rogue - 2 p.
Wizardry 4 - 2 p.
Amberstar - 2 p.
Dark Sun: Shattered Lands - 2 p.
The Dark Heart of Uukrul - 2 p.
Shame I couldn't have more than 5 games!

 

[mediocrepoet]

Quest for Glory 4 - 4 points
Quest for Glory 3 - 3 points
Albion - 3 points

Interesting. Why QFG3? The usual thought tends to be that it's the second worst game in the series (but still pretty good imo).

 

[Straight elf]

Interesting. Why QFG3? The usual thought tends to be that it's the second worst game in the series (but still pretty good imo).

It was my first experience with an RPG. I had played many games prior to QfG 3 - typically platformers, 3d shooters, civilization, point and click adventures - and I enjoyed all of them, but I was not immersed in them. I never felt like it was *me* killing the nazis in Wolf 3D, driving the car in Stunts or leading the Roman tanks in their battles against the Japanese Catapults. Every time I loaded QfG, I felt like being transported into a different world inhabited with brave paladins, terrifying villains, magic, sexy waitresses serving delicacies blended with the finest of spices ... so much more interesting than my shitty real world existence, which consisted of sitting through boring classes all day long.

Of course, many games have better design, nicer graphics, higher quality writing But very few games have made me feel so invested in them as QfG3.

 

[Peachcurl]

QfG3 also never received a remake. Or did it?

 

[mediocrepoet]

QfG3 also never received a remake. Or did it?

Only QG1 and QG2 did. QG2's remake was a fan remake and QG1's was from Sierra. They basically brought them into the style of the later games by doing away with the text parser.

 

[Rincewind]

While we're talking about QfG, what's the opinion about the fan-made enhanced versions of QfG3 and 4 that restore some cut content as well? Are they worth it, or is it best to stick to the unaltered originals (incl. bugs)?

https://github.com/AshLancer/QFG3-Fan-Patch
https://github.com/AshLancer/QFG4-Enhanced

 

[mediocrepoet]

While we're talking about QfG, what's the opinion about the fan-made enhanced versions of QfG3 and 4 that restore some cut content as well? Are they worth it, or is it best to stick to the unaltered originals (incl. bugs)?

https://github.com/AshLancer/QFG3-Fan-Patch
https://github.com/AshLancer/QFG4-Enhanced

Not sure about the cut content, but the fixes would probably be worth it alone. QG4 in particular has some weird issues like crashing to desktop when sliding down the slime hill related to fast processor times and animations that persisted forever and a day. The last time I played it, I had downloaded a fix, but I don't recall what it was.

 

[Nazrim Eldrak]

Current results:

Spoiler

It's pretty close at the top.

Spoiler

 

[Catacombs]

Spoiler

Why dots? A bar chart is easier to read.

 

[Karwelas]

Time to strike my fancy, dear Codextar- I mean, Codexlads.

Four Points:
Ultima 7 - The Black Gate: legendary game with legendary consequences for it's genre and hobby as a whole. Shame about what became of the series and ol'Lord British. Ultima Online still may be one of the best MMOs released upon this land and I will love it forever, ever with the very little experience I had with it.

Three points:
Star Control 2: The Ur-Quan Masters (Toys for Bob) - God, there are few words of magnitude that can rightfully explain how perfect this game meshes into the entirety of wonderfulness that it creates - a light, but wonderful lore (that Mass Effect shamelessly stole in bulk), nice and nimble combat gameplay, shitton of secrets to find out, atmosphere to read from the texts, the personality of aliens races you meet (along with their themes. God, fucking Yehat man, I still have their theme on my tabletop and writing playlists. Not to mention its title, Years Late, perfectly meshing with their story.



"THE REVOLUTION HAS BEGUN!"

Darklands: There is very little actual European fantasy in the whole big ol'pot of the RPG stew, but this one hits the onion and meat in perfect manner. Saints and devils, brave knights and dark mages, darkness of Dark Ages and light that only your heroes can carry into this night. But beware, for the night is dark and full of witches.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

a light, but wonderful lore (that Mass Effect shamelessly stole in bulk)

Starflight was the influence for both.

 

[Nazrim Eldrak]

Spoiler

Why dots? A bar chart is easier to read.

Due to the fact that this is not the final result and also old collected data, I did it without much thought. Here you go, and the next time you want something from me, you'd better give me a game on GOG:

Spoiler

 

[Catacombs]

Due to the fact that this is not the final result and also old collected data, I did it without much thought.

Got it. That's more scannable and easier on the eyes.

and the next time you want something from me, you'd better give me a game on GOG

You misread my post. I didn't want anything. I asked why you went with the inferior dot plot when the superior bar chart works better for this kind of data.