The Codex’s Best Computer RPGs (pre-Diablo)

[Unkillable Cat]

I stated what the games up on the voting block are: Remnants of their time, a slice of history.

I gave points (within the very narrow definition allowed) to the games that advanced or expanded the genre in positive ways.

I also acknowledge by doing so that I have moved on from them. I am not defined or restricted by them, and do not automatically dismiss anything and everything that comes after a certain time period, no matter how much decline has come in latter years.

As much as I'd like to keep living in 1986, I simply cannot.

 

[Butter]

It's interesting that Ultima IV consistently ranks as more popular here than Ultima V (which hasn't got any points so far). Ultima IV was more groundbreaking, but V plays a whole lot better. The Ultima games changed so much with each installment, but in a lot of ways V feels like they wanted to refine the gameplay of IV before moving on.

 

[Stoned Ape]

5 Points:

Dark Sun: Shattered Lands

3 Points:

Pool of Radiance

2 Points:

RoA: Blade of Destiny

 

[Koschey]

Pool of Radiance (SSI)
Ambermoon (Thalion Software)
Dark Sun: Shattered Lands (SSI)
Might and Magic: World of Xeen (New World Computing)
Albion (Blue Byte Software)

2 points each

 

[rusty_shackleford]

5 points:
albion
starflight

 

[luj1]

4 pts Dark Sun
4 pts Wizardry 7
2 pts Wasteland

 

[V_K]

multiple pathways through the games that we take for granted today

That's funny, tell another one.

 

[Disciple]

Counted the votes up to luj1's submission. Comments in spoiler not to influence further votes.

Spoiler

The five most popular games so far are Dark Sun: Shattered Lands, Pool of Radiance, Daggerfall, Wizardry VII and Ultima Underworld. Those five games have the highest total points tallies as well; the only two other games that surpass the >20 points mark are Betrayal at Krondor and Darklands.

Comparing this particular list in the making with the Codex's top 70 ranking from 2014, one can see the rise and demise of certain titles. (It is worth noting that felipepepe goes for Bayesian averages in his analyses, while I'm going here purely by total points). Games like Dark Sun, Daggerfall and Pool of Radiance have leapfrogged their competition, and now they rank higher than they used to, which comes at the expense of titles like World of Xeen (regarded in 2014 as the fifth best pre-Diablo RPG, now at #14). Betrayal at Krondor and Darklands seem to have lost a step among Codexers, but nothing too worrying. The biggest falls from grace of pre-Diablo top 10 RPGs are those of Wizardry VI and Ultima VII.

 

[Fedora Master]

ITT

 

[Butter]

Counted the votes up to luj1's submission. Comments in spoiler not to influence further votes.

Spoiler

The five most popular games so far are Dark Sun: Shattered Lands, Pool of Radiance, Daggerfall, Wizardry VII and Ultima Underworld. Those five games have the highest total points tallies as well; the only two other games that surpass the >20 points mark are Betrayal at Krondor and Darklands.

Comparing this particular list in the making with the Codex's top 70 ranking from 2014, one can see the rise and demise of certain titles. (It is worth noting that felipepepe goes for Bayesian averages in his analyses, while I'm going here purely by total points). Games like Dark Sun, Daggerfall and Pool of Radiance have leapfrogged their competition, and now they rank higher than they used to, which comes at the expense of titles like World of Xeen (regarded in 2014 as the fifth best pre-Diablo RPG, now at #14). Betrayal at Krondor and Darklands seem to have lost a step among Codexers, but nothing too worrying. The biggest falls from grace of pre-Diablo top 10 RPGs are those of Wizardry VI and Ultima VII.

The difference in voting system could be an influence here. You can give 5 games the maximum points in felipepepe's system, but only 2 games here. In the case of Wizardry, I suspect a lot of people don't want to double dip and pick 7 over 6.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Betrayal at Krondor - 4 points
Might and Magic: World of Xeen - 2 points
Darklands - 2 points
Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall - 1 point
Wizardry 7 - 1 point

 

[Darth Canoli]

Deuce Traveler Great initiative! Thanks for taking the time to compile the list and to your secretaries to.

Here I go:

• Dark Sun: Shattered Lands - 5 points
• Might & Magic III: Isles of Terra - 3 points
• Wizardry 7: Crusaders of the Dark Savant - 2 points

 

[Tomas]

2 points each:
Albion
Black Crypt
Dark Sun: Shattered Lands (SSI)
Dungeon Master
Lands of Lore: The Throne of Chaos (Westwood)

 

[Brancaleone]

Darklands (3 points, in spite of the font)
Dark Sun: Shattered Lands (3 points)
Ultima 7: the Black Gate (3 points)
EotB2 (1 point)

 

[Decado]

Quest for Glory 1 (Hero's Quest): 5 points
Betrayal at Krondor: 5 points

 

[JarlFrank]

I don't see many votes for sci-fi games :-/

I did my job giving a point to Starflight 2

Not enough people have played it tho

 

[Serus]

3 points each:
Darklands
Wizardy 7

1 point each:
Betrayal at Krondor
Elder Scrolls 2: Dagerfall
Ultima V
Quest for Glory I

Unfortunately my knowledge of crpgs made before ~1991/1992 is very poor and even the ones made 91+ not great. I simply am not as prestigious as i would like to be. Especially painful is lack of playing experience with gold box games.
I consider Quest for Glory series much more as adventure games with some crpgs elements - not really crpgs, but because this is such an excellent series the first part got 1 point from me.
As much as i like Star Control 2 - it is NOT a crpg in any meaningful way. Or even non-meaningful one. I loved this game in the 90s, I still thinks it is an excellent game mixing a few (sub)genres. However crpg is NOT among them.

And finally Unkillable Cat talks nonsense. Maybe he is Unkillable but certainly not very Knowledgeable:

Spoiler

"Basic concepts such as dialogue, branching plotlines and multiple pathways through the games that we take for granted today simply weren't available".
Vast majority of crpgs of today don't have "branching plotlines" or "multiple pathways" in any meaningful ways. At best those are illusions that are made so cats can believe them. And dialogue? Is this a joke? Many - and i mean many - crpgs from the 1st half of 90s had extensive dialogues. Unless one means bioware-ian type of "dialogue", then that's actually is a good riddance. Long exchange about nothing with fake choices to make it look interactive - such a great innovation.
"A large majority of the games listed are just battle simulators using a detailed (and often slow-paced) combat system."
Again: 1) Not really, even if concentrated on combat most of those games have other major gameplay element typical for crpgs - namely exploration. Also character building. 2) Games that are as described above are being made today as well, nothing wrong with combat focused crpgs. 3) Let me make an educated guess what current games have that those "battle simulators" don't. Fake choices. Fake branching stories that leads to the same end result. Long boring dialogues with plenty of... well, fake choices. Such great innovations that make modern crpgs so much better.
Though the more modern crpgs actually ARE better, just not for the reason mentioned at all. It is a very unfortunate one. Interfaces. And sometimes general clunkiness and slowness.

 

[mondblut]

It's interesting that Ultima IV consistently ranks as more popular here than Ultima V (which hasn't got any points so far). Ultima IV was more groundbreaking, but V plays a whole lot better.

Ultima IV is "spot the decline enabler" choice

 

[Strange Fellow]

3 - Dark Heart of Uukrul
2 - Betrayal at Krondor
2 - Wizardry VI
2 - Pool of Radiance
1 - Might and Magic I

 

[Scroo]

5 Points:

Fate: Gates of Dawn

2 Points:

Wizardry VI
Might & Magic: World of Xeen

1 Point:

Dark Heart of Uukrul

 

[Peachcurl]

Strange Fellow 5 games max bro

 

[Falksi]

I don't see many votes for sci-fi games :-/

I fell obliged to rectify that a bit.

My Votes:

Star Control 2: The Ur-Quan Masters (Toys for Bob) - 3

Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday (SSI) - 3

Exile: Escape from the Pit (Spiderweb Software) - 3

Starflight (Binary Systems) - 1

 

[Zerth]

Betrayal at Krondor (2)
Dark Sun: Shattered Lands (2)
Ultima IV (3)
Ultima Underworld (3)

 

[Curratum]

5 points into Hero's Quest (Quest for Glory 1): So You Want to Be a Hero (Sierra)
5 points into Lands of Lore: The Throne of Chaos (Westwood)

 

[Denim Destroyer]

Ultima V (4)
Ultima Underworld (3)
Lands Of Lore: The Throne of Chaos (3)