The Codex's official opinion on VtM Bloodlines

[Brotherman Bill]

According to white wolf everything that happened in bloodlines was canon... It might contradict some of the other canon but so does white wolf canon.

Bloodlines on the other hand was internally consistent for the most part, toned down the retarded elements and focused on the good elements. Bloodlines > every jap game ever made.

 

[spekkio]

Even Super Mario BROS?

 

[treave]

Super Mario World has Bloodlines beat in every single aspect except voice acting.

 

[Black Cat]

According to white wolf everything that happened in bloodlines was canon... It might contradict some of the other canon but so does white wolf canon.

Yes, we already said that. Several times.

Bloodlines on the other hand was internally consistent for the most part, toned down the retarded elements and focused on the good elements.

It is internally consistent as long as you don't think too much about it, yes. If you do think too much about it, though, as in the examples given above, things doesn't hold so good.

More comparisons: Some random person sees me rushing with Celerity, it's a masquerade breach. The fight on the cafe on Santa Monica, meanwhile, does not produce a masquerade breach without Wesp's extra content patch, even if you go full Tremere on the four thugs and leave the one witness live. More so, the cafe has huge windows and, at that point, there's always people outside. Also, dozens of zombies rampaging is as much (or as little) of a masquerade breach as having one random bum see me running too fast? Also, if i'm not mixing that part up with some other one many random bums see dozens of vampires going all out on the ruined hotel towards the end of the game but it doesn't count as a masquerade breach while a single bum on a side alley does?

Also, you can feed on the sick on Downtown L.A all you want and they never have to put you down, even when the game itself explains to you what happens to vampires that do so. You must be one really lucky vampire with the rolls.

Etc, etc. Internally consistent it is not.

Bloodlines > every jap game ever made.

Countdown Vampires has it beaten in every aspect, sorry.

 

[spekkio]

Super Mario World has Bloodlines beat in every single aspect except voice acting.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I wonder how many of the people who name drop Mario actually played it and how many just think they are cool for mentioning it, like the teenagers who wear PacMan t-shirts.

 

[treave]

I wonder how many of the Codexers who name drop Wizardry/M&M/Ultima/Gold Box games actually played it and how many just think they are cool for mentioning it, like the teenagers who wear PacMan t-shirts.

 

[spekkio]

C'mon, treave-kun.

FeelTheRads-kun completed PST THREE times, so he's an elite individual, hardcore PC-gaymer and a true BRO!

 

[FeelTheRads]

I wonder how many of the Codexers who name drop Wizardry/M&M/Ultima/Gold Box games actually played it and how many just think they are cool for mentioning it, like the teenagers who wear PacMan t-shirts.

I don't know, I played them and I don't feel the need to go "LOL Wizardry is better than Final Fantasy".

Final Fantasy is shit because it's shit, not because Wizardry is better.

 

[FeelTheRads]

C'mon, treave-kun.

FeelTheRads-kun completed PST THREE times, so he's an elite individual, hardcore PC-gaymer and a true BRO!

Butthurt wannabe-weaboo alert!

 

[treave]

I wonder how many of the Codexers who name drop Wizardry/M&M/Ultima/Gold Box games actually played it and how many just think they are cool for mentioning it, like the teenagers who wear PacMan t-shirts.

I don't know, I played them and I don't feel the need to go "LOL Wizardry is better than Final Fantasy".

Final Fantasy is shit because it's shit, not because Wizardry is better.

Let's not sidetrack this official Troika RPG topic with jRPG arguments.

But for what it's worth, I played Super Mario World how it was meant to be played, in front of the TV, on a couch, and it is legitimately a better game than Bloodlines.

Because even the blindest fanboy can't deny that Mario has better sewer levels.

 

[Black Cat]

Let's not sidetrack this official Troika RPG topic with jRPG arguments.

But for what it's worth, I played Super Mario World how it was meant to be played, in front of the TV, on a couch, and it is legitimately a better game than Bloodlines.

Because even the blindest fanboy can't deny that Mario has better sewer levels.

Someone should go and make a Giovanni Plumber mod for Bloodlines ASAP.

 

[Malakal]

This thread ahs nicely grown due to contributions from our favorite Cat. A wasted potential though since the poll speaks for itself...

 

[SCO]

I'm tempted to rage but it's not worth it.
Yes, bloodlines is a serious *grimdark* game, and that kind of game, the more internally consistent it is, the better the believability. However the p&p roots of the game interfere with the game. The humanity mechanic had to be simplified, to fit in with primitive scripting, and role-player games expectations. The same towards the masquerade.

I don't care about that shit.
I care that the game straightjackets you in the main quest when options should be opening up. All this because the design follows the same error all of them do: if it took time to do, sewers, end assaults, the gamer must do it. I'd take a very obscure quest to skip the rush to the finish, another quest to betray the cammarilla, with visible consequences that derails the main plot - into death or exile, or a quest to betray pisha to the tremere as reputation gain to join the sabbath faction over all of those "errors" being corrected.

Those are simple errors of degree. They could be worked around on a higher difficulty mod. The others are lost opportunities...

 

[Brotherman Bill]

According to white wolf everything that happened in bloodlines was canon... It might contradict some of the other canon but so does white wolf canon.

Yes, we already said that. Several times.

Sorry, I didn't read all the previous pages full of derp. I mean, if you make liberal look like a voice of reason you know your arguments hail from retardoland.

Bloodlines on the other hand was internally consistent for the most part, toned down the retarded elements and focused on the good elements.

It is internally consistent as long as you don't think too much about it, yes. If you do think too much about it, though, as in the examples given above, things doesn't hold so good.

More comparisons:[snip]

Etc, etc. Internally consistent it is not.

These objections are all laughable and silly. It's like saying Mario is not internally coherent enough because the mushroom people doesn't die when you jump on them. Really, there are no games made that meet such standards as you put forth here - gameplay mechanics cannot simulate the weird looks you get from passing onlookers when wearing outrageous clothes either, but using it as an argument against the game is retarded. Ultimately all these objections are nitpicks that doesn't really touch on the core of the story or the game at all.

Bloodlines > every jap game ever made.

Countdown Vampires has it beaten in every aspect, sorry.

I could see why you of all people say that:

Me, I don't like Yaoi.

 

[Archibald]

Was BC raping wannabe elitists since she joined or this is just recent trend?

Bloodlines is one of my favorite games and i`m gay for vampires yet i have no problems accepting her points. Wtf is wrong with you people.


Also, i had no big problems with that fight in chinatown nor the ending popamole bullshit fights because once i got that side quest early where you have to go down into parking garage and beat crapload of guys to get something from then it hit me that this game will have some serious design flaws. Luckily atmosphere made it up for me.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Also, i had no big problems with that fight in chinatown nor the ending popamole bullshit fights because once i got that side quest early where you have to go down into parking garage and beat crapload of guys to get something from then it hit me that this game will have some serious design flaws. Luckily atmosphere made it up for me.

The garage - another quest that can be finished without combat - if you figure it out. Minor sneaking required. Same with the chinatown club - you can take the backentrance and be immediately at the stairs to above, then you can avoid everyone, you don't even have to enter the main room downstairs.

 

[Archibald]

Sure it can, thou i don`t remember if last few guys could be tricked.

That isn`t the problem. Whole design of that quest is like mini dungeon from some fantasy game. You have move thru bad guys to get to the bottom of the "dungeon" to complete your quest.

Same for ending popamole and certain other places. You have this "modern" setting and gameplay yet whole game is infested with heroic fantasy bullshit.

It doesn`t fit, it doesn`t play well and doesn`t make much sense.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I think I'll join the choir saying that people abusing the word 'popamole' should be banned.

 

[Eyeball]

I can think of only one time during the Bloodlines story I really sat up and thought "hang on, this is some ol'e bullshit!" That was when you, after being forced to be Lacroix's pet bitch for a couple of missions, had the opportunity to to tell him to go fuck himself. He'll then just go "lol, no" and mindcontrol you into kissing his ass and doing some more gofer quests.

And as if that isn't enough, when he tries the same shit at the end of the game, you just shrug it off and proceed to beat him down without so much as a bossfight, he's such a pussy all he gets is a cutscene. How are you suddenly 100% resistant to mind control?

This is just crappy writing, man.

 

[Archibald]

And as if that isn't enough, when he tries the same shit at the end of the game, you just shrug it off and proceed to beat him down without so much as a bossfight, he's such a pussy all he gets is a cutscene. How are you suddenly 100% resistant to mind control?

If you haven`t noticed your characters grows very fast in power.

 

[Eyeball]

Sure it can, thou i don`t remember if last few guys could be tricked.

That isn`t the problem. Whole design of that quest is like mini dungeon from some fantasy game. You have move thru bad guys to get to the bottom of the "dungeon" to complete your quest.

Same for ending popamole and certain other places. You have this "modern" setting and gameplay yet whole game is infested with heroic fantasy bullshit.

It doesn`t fit, it doesn`t play well and doesn`t make much sense.

Disagree - by your logic, Hitman is "heroic fantasy bullshit" as well because 47 on numerous occasions has to kill or bypass numerous "monsters" in order to get to the "boss" whom he has to defeat, often having to retrieve some kind of "magical treasure" in order to finish his "quest."

It's just a type of gameplay that fits certain types of games, fantasy and modern. I quite liked that mission - partly because I love Hitman, but mainly because I loved Fat Larry's ridiculously over the top ghettolicious voice acting.

 

[Eyeball]

And as if that isn't enough, when he tries the same shit at the end of the game, you just shrug it off and proceed to beat him down without so much as a bossfight, he's such a pussy all he gets is a cutscene. How are you suddenly 100% resistant to mind control?

If you haven`t noticed your characters grows very fast in power.

As far as I can tell, the entire game takes place over about a week - how do you go from newborn vampire to being able to take on a vampire so old he served under Napoleon when he was still alive? Apart from standard RPG logic, of course.

 

[Archibald]

As far as I can tell, the entire game takes place over about a week - how do you go from newborn vampire to being able to take on a vampire so old he served under Napoleon when he was still alive? Apart from standard RPG logic, of course.

Cab driver, Kaine/caine/cain/imposter fucked up your bloodline, some hints were given during the game that there is something wrong/strange with you and i`m not sure but IIRC i heard that something official came out from WW to explain that.

Disagree - by your logic, Hitman is "heroic fantasy bullshit" as well because 47 on numerous occasions has to kill or bypass numerous "monsters" in order to get to the "boss" whom he has to defeat, often having to retrieve some kind of "magical treasure" in order to finish his "quest."

It's just a type of gameplay that fits certain types of games, fantasy and modern. I quite liked that mission - partly because I love Hitman, but mainly because I loved Fat Larry's ridiculously over the top ghettolicious voice acting.

I don`t know, maybe it`s just me but when i play it, garage, ending fights and some certain places feel like they are from another game/setting.

 

[Phelot]

You can get through the entire parking garage without killing anyone. As soon as you sneak and get the suitcase, the gangs start killing each other because each one thinks the other stole the case I guess. Saves you the trouble of having to sneak back out.

As for the combat. As I said, I didn't like it, but then there was no reason most of the time to even GET into combat. There is no reward for most mobs, but yeah it's a shame that you HAVE to fight certain critters in order to advance.