Official Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

The Denuvo DRM Thread

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Infinitron, Jan 8, 2016.

  1. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

    DalekFlay
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,842
    Location:
    New Vegas
    Random Youtubers with no stated testing methodology or expertise aren't to be trusted? Who would have thought?!?!? I really worry for the future of the species when people just blindly trust personable people on the internet for their information. Actually forget the future part, the present is fucked already.

    That said Denuvo is cancer for many reasons, even if it has a minimal performance impact.
     
    • Acknowledge this user's Agenda Acknowledge this user's Agenda x 1
    • Doggy Doggy x 1
    ^ Top  
  2. BlackAdderBG Arcane Patron

    BlackAdderBG
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,086
    Location:
    Little Vienna
    Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    It would be cool if Hardware Unboxed made the benchmarks, this guy is pretty bad at that I agree.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  3. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

    DalekFlay
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,842
    Location:
    New Vegas
    Digital Foundry did the Batman comparison and found no significant difference, for what it's worth.
     
    • NPC #61873 came up with this opinion all by his / herself NPC #61873 came up with this opinion all by his / herself x 1
    ^ Top  
  4. BlackAdderBG Arcane Patron

    BlackAdderBG
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,086
    Location:
    Little Vienna
    Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Digital Foundry are retards and shills, would not believe anything they benchmark.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • retadred retadred x 3
    • M: M: x 1
    ^ Top  
  5. Valky Arcane Manlet

    Valky
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2016
    Messages:
    2,418
    Location:
    Trapped in a bioform
    Funny how valve cocksuckers defended their drm by saying shit like securom went away thanks to steam, and now we have denuvo as well as multiple storefronts that impose their own form of DRM.
    Great news to see that a pirate version has removed drm entirely - something that people can't buy a version of lol - but in the end it's still on a forgettable fast food video game from ubisoft.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    • Participation Award Participation Award x 1
    • retadred retadred x 1
    ^ Top  
  6. TheSentinel Arcane

    TheSentinel
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2015
    Messages:
    5,247
    Location:
    Ommadawn
    How are those contradictory? The first companies to use Denuvo were companies that were outside of Steam, namely EA with FIFA and Dragon Age.
     
    ^ Top  
  7. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

    DalekFlay
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,842
    Location:
    New Vegas
    I think the point is more that Steam hasn't prevented other DRMs from existing and being used often (for AAA games anyway).
     
    ^ Top  
  8. TheSentinel Arcane

    TheSentinel
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2015
    Messages:
    5,247
    Location:
    Ommadawn
    Of course not. No one has ever claimed that Steam prevents other DRMs from existing or has done so. It certainly helps make other forms of DRM less popular, but by itself it has no power or intent to weed them out.
     
    ^ Top  
  9. Raghar Arcane

    Raghar
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    Messages:
    11,733
    Looks like he did run it at least twice.

    Assuming first time it loaded into cache, the difference is between running game from SSD, and running game again when DRM didn't killed whole cache.
    Second game simply shows that when there is no DRM, the game is basically streamed without delay.



    I assume game developers are quite capable. And we are comparing game without DRM. Single game same shaders.
     
    ^ Top  
  10. T. Reich Arcane

    T. Reich
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2013
    Messages:
    2,650
    Location:
    not even close
    Steam is a DRM platform as well, just a relatively mild one.
    Doesn't make it less annoying.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Yes Yes x 1
    ^ Top  
  11. Hirato Purse-Owner Patron

    Hirato
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    3,550
    Location:
    Australia
    Codex 2012 Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    I believe those were the times the games took to get to the main menu, not to actually get in game.
    Most games don't load the full rendering pipeline at this stage, but rather do it when presenting the loading screen when attempting to go ingame.

    Poorly coded games won't do that, and instead stutter like very badly until you've played for a few minutes, so it had a chance to encounter and compile the bulk of the shaders you need.
    For comparison, consider how CEMU or RPCS3 perform when you play a game for the first time.
    I wouldn't put it past ubisoft to not set up the pipeline correctly for DirectX.

    Heck, this kind of thing is a big reason why Valve has started distributing downloadable shader caches through steam, so it can precompile these shaders at launch instead of letting the game stutter due to compiling them.
     
    ^ Top  
  12. Hirato Purse-Owner Patron

    Hirato
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    3,550
    Location:
    Australia
    Codex 2012 Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong


    This overlord chap made another one.
    I'd like to point you to 12:00, as he included Gears 5 there which includes a CPU metric that is really useful in showing the actual overhead garbage like Denuvo has.
    [​IMG]

    As you can see there, framerate differences are minimal.
    However, you can also see, the time needed to run game logic has increased quite significantly.

    There are a few ways to read this:
    1: Game Logic: Requires 17% more CPU power to compute
    2. Game Logic: maximum potential performance is down by 14%
    3: CPU Frametime: each frame requires 15% more CPU power
    4: CPU Frametime: Potential performance is down 12%
    Difference between the two is that one includes sending instructions to the GPU, the other doesn't.


    Now if only he had the good sense to produce some numbers like these for a few Denuvo titles...
    That's the kind of metric I want to see, and it's the only actually useful metric for measuring the impact of DRM - at least until DRM starts running on our GPUs too.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  13. Norfleet Moderator

    Norfleet
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    9,166
    This seems like an absolutely terrible argument if their premise is "the DRM has no statistically significant impact, the difference is all in having the most recent patches"...except the "recent patches" made the game WORSE.
     
    ^ Top  
  14. BlackAdderBG Arcane Patron

    BlackAdderBG
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,086
    Location:
    Little Vienna
    Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I agree, what is the point of making your GPU bottlenecked to test CPU heavy DRM :retarded:. Either he is hiding something or just stupid. Drop the settings, put weaker CPU and see if there is actual difference.
     
    ^ Top  
  15. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    20,088
    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    I'm gonna go with stupid, because if you watch the video he states "since our numbers were indisputable, peasants used semantics to split hairs".
     
    ^ Top  
  16. racofer Thread Incliner

    racofer
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Messages:
    21,176
    Location:
    Your ignore list.
    FitGirl is mad as hell:

     
    • Despair x 5
    • Merry Christmas! x 2
    • Informative x 2
    • That's an Elephant x 2
    • Participation Award x 1
    • meh x 1
    • I found this text to be too long and as such I didn't read it x 1
    • Hoo x 1
    ^ Top  
  17. TheSentinel Arcane

    TheSentinel
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2015
    Messages:
    5,247
    Location:
    Ommadawn
    Who cares about this tranny seething. His repacks are fucking shit and take longer to install than it takes me to download and install the regular releases.
     
    • Merry Christmas! x 1
    • Participation Award x 1
    • cool story bro x 1
    • Okily Dokily! x 1
    • retadred x 1
    ^ Top  
  18. flyingjohn Arcane

    flyingjohn
    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,535
    Also is a intel shill.
    Russian repacks make her look like a very slow snail in terms of time and cpu usage.
     
    ^ Top  
  19. Black Arcane

    Black
    Joined:
    May 8, 2007
    Messages:
    1,869,105
    You fell for hir lies.
     
    • Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas! x 1
    • Despair Despair x 1
    • Makes you think... Makes you think... x 1
    • honk honk! honk honk! x 1
    ^ Top  
  20. CyberModuled Learned

    CyberModuled
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2019
    Messages:
    245
    You don't have to care about the tranny itself seething. You should care about the fact that the exploit CODEX (not directly related to FitGirl) has been consistently using for their bypassed cracks is now open in the air to the point where it's very likely Denuvo engineers will fix it meaning less cracks in a timely manner.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  21. Valky Arcane Manlet

    Valky
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2016
    Messages:
    2,418
    Location:
    Trapped in a bioform
    That just means a new equation to solve and a new exploit to make. A scene crack is just as exploitable to reverse engineering as the DRM it is made to patch, I'm sure the people making the exploits know this.
    Every single person working at Denuvo is human scum and deserves a public flogging, they are an enemy against mankind.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    ^ Top  
  22. TheSentinel Arcane

    TheSentinel
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2015
    Messages:
    5,247
    Location:
    Ommadawn
    Sounds like nothing will change then. Codex hasn't cracked anything that mattered in a timely manner in a very long time. Besides, Denuvo and companies of its kind have people infiltrated in these cracking circles, you don't really need leaks for them to catch up to cracker code. Even if they didn't have insider info, they always investigate released cracks, so codex obviously knows that everytime they release a crack it's back to the trenches for 3 months to crack a new version.
     
    ^ Top  
  23. CyberModuled Learned

    CyberModuled
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2019
    Messages:
    245
    Even though in recent memory they've been the only ones really doing it at this point (especially when CPY have been mostly dormant this year)? Besides they did Fallen Order, Code Vein, and BL3 within a week (BL3's version they cracked was the Oct 24th patch and the bypass was released on the 31st) and a few others in recent memory. Also keep in mind that they were the ones that recently made the first iteration of the complete removal of Denuvo with AC:O which while late is at least some form of progress to actually push drm free exes.
     
    ^ Top  
  24. karoliner Magister

    karoliner
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2016
    Messages:
    1,468
    Location:
    Most skilled black nation
    corepack is dead

     
    • Hoo Hoo x 4
    • incline incline x 1
    • Salute Salute x 1
    ^ Top  

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.