The Dragon Age: Inquisition Thread

[RK47]

I would like to see some analysis of DAI, or better, some explanation from devs as what the fuck they were trying to achieve with this. How can you jump from complex mechanics and quests to a fucking MMO filler and awessome button shit? WHY?

You can't make sense of this fucked up mess aka gaming industry without having brain surgery.

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1/30 Juicy Blackmail Collected

 

[Athelas]

So that coming from a guy who's behind BG2

He was one if its many designers, not its sole architect. And I believe his role since then has shifted from general design (including combat encounters and area design) to only writing (which he was always bad at).

Of course all games have a whole team of developers, it's never just one man anyway but you shouldn't diminish Gaider's contribution to BG2.

I'm not diminishing his contribution, I was talking about how his role has shifted. He may or may not be a gifted gameplay designer, but I don't see how that justifies anything when those skills aren't being put to use (if anything, it makes it even more egregious). And Gaider certainly doesn't seem to mind the direction Bioware headed in.

 

[Sòren]

wait a second this -find 30 secrets- thing was NOT a joke?

 

[RK47]

wait a second this -find 30 secrets- thing was NOT a joke?

Nope. They were serious.

 

[RK47]

 

[Abu Antar]

Had this game been shipped exactly like it is now but with the name "Obsidian Entertainment", the press would have complained about every bug and it would have gotten a Metacritic score of 79. Talk about life (for Obsidian) being unfair. Now people are hailing this as the game to take inspiration from if you want to create your own rpg.

 

[Viata]

Had this game been shipped exactly like it is now but with the name "Obsidian Entertainment", the press would have complained about every bug and it would have gotten a Metacritic score of 79. Talk about life (for Obsidian) being unfair.

Games award is about money. And we all know EA have enough money to spend on this if they can get people to buy their games.

Now people are hailing this as the game to take inspiration from if you want to create your own rpg.

I'm okay with this. Recently, it's been quite hard for me to play any new rpg(I believe I have played only Divinity and Shadowrun Returns of the ones released this year), so if I know game X was inspired by DA:I, I can ignore that game.

I hope his face reminds us of how this shit is beyond salvation:

 

[Roguey]

The jury was made up of gaming journalists and gaming journalists fucking love Bioware because they're adult children with terrible, pretentious tastes.

Had this game been shipped exactly like it is now but with the name "Obsidian Entertainment", the press would have complained about every bug and it would have gotten a Metacritic score of 79. Talk about life (for Obsidian) being unfair. Now people are hailing this as the game to take inspiration from if you want to create your own rpg.

There actually were reviews that mentioned bugs, I was impressed.

Except for the PS4 version, its metacritic scores are lower than D:OS's and it's definitely a step-down from ME3. OTOH, a step-up from DAII which makes sense because that was worse.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

wait a second this -find 30 secrets- thing was NOT a joke?

trololo you thought that was a joke, so naive. Of course nobody actually would search for that shit, right? I found like 6 or 7 when I clicked on a glowing thingie that was right in my way.

 

[mastroego]

So, this game is now GOTY. I guess it is now a good game.

Best Role-Playing Game:

• Bravely Default
• Dark Souls II
• Divinity
• Dragon Age: Inquisition (Winner)
• South Park: The Stick of Truth

What an ugly world. How I hate the shallow masses. ~grieves
Don't mind me. I just stand over here and cry into my cauldron quietly.

Masses will behave like masses and corrupted award-givers will give awards to the highest payer.

It saddens me more to see Codexers actually playing this degenerate thing and giving it even a tiny shred of legitimacy.

 

[Franny Frogpill]

It saddens me more to see Codexers actually playing this degenerate thing and giving it even a tiny shred of legitimacy.

It's a bit sad, true. But without RK47's videos I would have fallen for the first sale as well. Can't throw any stones, myself.

 

[PhantasmaNL]

Hm, from the above list i would choose DOS. Larians budget for goty manipulating is probably about 10 euros.

Still playing and enjoying this though (not in a completionist way, so skipping A LOT of fetch me 10 x from y "quests"). I switched from archer rogue back to my mage and respecced as frost. Party setup is most of the time Blackwall (probably the most "normal" of the bunch) Solas (drones on about da fade, but hes Ok. Does the barrier-ing, dispelling plus rifts), Dorian (a necromancer gay mage magister from tevinter, you really cant go wrong here - hes well written and va-ed i must admit).

 

[DalekFlay]

Game of the year or not, you can take solace in the fact this is going to sell nowhere near as many copies as Skyrim did, so Bioware still failed in EA's eyes.

 

[Franny Frogpill]

Game of the year or not, you can take solace in the fact this is going to sell nowhere near as many copies as Skyrim did, so Bioware still failed in EA's eyes.

Promise?

 

[RPGMaster]

Insight into the design process of characters, their interactions and dialogue within bioware :

The Idea
A couple years ago, BioWare did a BioWare Base panel on LGBTQ representation in our games at PAX. We heard concerns, praise, and a lot of heartfelt discussion about how we present characters from the LGBTQ community. One of the most repeated requests was for representation of transgender and/or genderqueer characters in a way that did not make them either a monster or a joke. When the panel was over, some of us kicked around ideas about what we could do.

Talking over drinks at the bar later, we hit two major challenges. First, any conversation about the subject had to come up naturally in-game. A minor character like a shopkeeper would have no reason to explain that she is trans, so either the conversation would never come up or it would come up because her voice was clearly masculine, at which point it would look like a joke to most players, no matter how we tried to write it. Second, the character had to serve a purpose beyond “being there to be a genderqueer person.” Every character in our game serves a purpose—reinforcing the theme of a plot, character, or area—and we do not have the budget for someone who is just there to tick off a box.

As we discussed ideas, the possibility came up of Iron Bull’s lieutenant being such a character. Bull needed a lieutenant. He’s a mercenary commander, and even if we didn’t have the memory budget to have his entire company around all the time, I needed to be able to remind players that Bull has a history of command. In addition, Bull’s loyalty is pulled between life under the Qun and a life of freedom, and I needed a character on each side who could represent that pull.

Cremisius “Krem” Aclassi met both challenges. His conversation could come up naturally, along with discussions of life as a mercenary, and he could serve a vital role in the story as a grounding force who would remind the player that Bull is more than just hired muscle. Krem’s status as a trans man, rather than being just tacked on, could emphasize Bull’s character by opening up discussions of Qunari gender roles.

The Execution
Once we had decided what we wanted to do, we tackled the concept of Krem with other departments to figure out how to do it correctly. In doing so, we saw how much of our game’s engine was based on set gender assignments, from voice to face to animation set to localization plan for foreign languages. Every single department stepped up enthusiastically to make sure that Krem was created with respect. Colleen Perman gave Krem his fantastic face using the character art team’s head-morph system, John Epler nailed his animation and body language, Caroline Livingstone and Jennifer Hale found a great voice for a trans man in a world without access to transitional procedures, and Melanie Fleming made absolutely certain that Krem was gendered appropriately in all languages.

On the writing side, I wrote Krem as best I could, and the editing team looked at every line and cleaned up dialogue and paraphrases that could give the wrong impression. I then passed him to two friends in the GQ community… at which point they showed me where I was absolutely messing things up and gave me constructive feedback on how to improve. In the first draft, Bull was the one who brought up Krem’s binding as a friendly joke. My friends pointed out how incredibly hurtful such a callout was for many trans people in real life (“Hey, by the way, you’re actually a woman, just wanted to remind you!”) and that it made Bull into an incredibly offensive jerk. This was not at all what I wanted—people playing now will note that Bull and Krem give each other grief about little things all the time, but never attack truly sore spots—and I rewrote the scene so that Krem is the one who brings it up first. This makes it clear that Krem is comfortable discussing being trans, and the player will not be offending Krem by asking questions about it.

In the investigate hub where you can ask Krem about his past in Tevinter, the first draft had him deserting after fighting off someone who discovered his secret and tried to assault him. My friends noted that this played directly into the sad “attacked trans person” cliché, and while it was plausible, it was an ugly event that could well trigger trans people who have experienced harassment in real life. The goal was for Krem to be a positive character who was living his life happily now, and I revised his departure from Tevinter accordingly.

(Very few writers enjoy talking about things they messed up in their first drafts, and I am no exception. That said, I am hugely grateful to my friends for helping me avoid some obvious-in-retrospect mistakes. Their help was amazing, and any stuff that still bothers people is on me and me alone.)

The Reception
We are all proud to have brought Krem to life in the game, and seeing people in the genderqueer community respond positively to him has been wonderful. We are also listening to feedback on how we can improve with characters in the future. (For example, some trans folks feel I wrote the player choices to be too clueless or uninformed, and wished for options to speak from more personal experience. I’ve heard the feedback, and I intend to do better next time.) It would be a lie to say that this was as easy as creating any other human character—it was uncharted territory for all of us on both the technical and the artistic side—but it was worth the extra effort. The world of Dragon Age has room for people of all backgrounds and identities, and it was a pleasure to show that in one more way.

http://blog.bioware.com/2014/12/04/building-a-character-cremisius-krem-aclassi/

Yeah, this character probably received a lot more effort than the main villain for sure.

What is this "him" shit? Wearing male clothes does not make a woman a man.

Probably spent more time on this character than the gameplay too.

 

[Abu Antar]

So, this game is now GOTY. I guess it is now a good game.

Best Role-Playing Game:

• Bravely Default
• Dark Souls II
• Divinity
• Dragon Age: Inquisition (Winner)
• South Park: The Stick of Truth

What an ugly world. How I hate the shallow masses. ~grieves
Don't mind me. I just stand over here and cry into my cauldron quietly.

Masses will behave like masses and corrupted award-givers will give awards to the highest payer.

It saddens me more to see Codexers actually playing this degenerate thing and giving it even a tiny shred of legitimacy.

I feel guilty. I didn't buy Dragon Age II or Mass Effect 3. I thought I would give this a shot. Luckily, I didn't pay full price. Got it for 20% off. So my conscience is 20% clean.

 

[DalekFlay]

Game of the year or not, you can take solace in the fact this is going to sell nowhere near as many copies as Skyrim did, so Bioware still failed in EA's eyes.

Promise?

I'm just going off the week one boxed retail numbers. I don't see any way they get to 20 million copies from where they are now, even if they have a long tail and digital download sales are super high. Could be wrong though, it's all a guessing game.

 

[Azarkon]

Insight into the design process of characters, their interactions and dialogue within bioware :

The Idea
A couple years ago, BioWare did a BioWare Base panel on LGBTQ representation in our games at PAX. We heard concerns, praise, and a lot of heartfelt discussion about how we present characters from the LGBTQ community. One of the most repeated requests was for representation of transgender and/or genderqueer characters in a way that did not make them either a monster or a joke. When the panel was over, some of us kicked around ideas about what we could do.

Talking over drinks at the bar later, we hit two major challenges. First, any conversation about the subject had to come up naturally in-game. A minor character like a shopkeeper would have no reason to explain that she is trans, so either the conversation would never come up or it would come up because her voice was clearly masculine, at which point it would look like a joke to most players, no matter how we tried to write it. Second, the character had to serve a purpose beyond “being there to be a genderqueer person.” Every character in our game serves a purpose—reinforcing the theme of a plot, character, or area—and we do not have the budget for someone who is just there to tick off a box.

As we discussed ideas, the possibility came up of Iron Bull’s lieutenant being such a character. Bull needed a lieutenant. He’s a mercenary commander, and even if we didn’t have the memory budget to have his entire company around all the time, I needed to be able to remind players that Bull has a history of command. In addition, Bull’s loyalty is pulled between life under the Qun and a life of freedom, and I needed a character on each side who could represent that pull.

Cremisius “Krem” Aclassi met both challenges. His conversation could come up naturally, along with discussions of life as a mercenary, and he could serve a vital role in the story as a grounding force who would remind the player that Bull is more than just hired muscle. Krem’s status as a trans man, rather than being just tacked on, could emphasize Bull’s character by opening up discussions of Qunari gender roles.

The Execution
Once we had decided what we wanted to do, we tackled the concept of Krem with other departments to figure out how to do it correctly. In doing so, we saw how much of our game’s engine was based on set gender assignments, from voice to face to animation set to localization plan for foreign languages. Every single department stepped up enthusiastically to make sure that Krem was created with respect. Colleen Perman gave Krem his fantastic face using the character art team’s head-morph system, John Epler nailed his animation and body language, Caroline Livingstone and Jennifer Hale found a great voice for a trans man in a world without access to transitional procedures, and Melanie Fleming made absolutely certain that Krem was gendered appropriately in all languages.

On the writing side, I wrote Krem as best I could, and the editing team looked at every line and cleaned up dialogue and paraphrases that could give the wrong impression. I then passed him to two friends in the GQ community… at which point they showed me where I was absolutely messing things up and gave me constructive feedback on how to improve. In the first draft, Bull was the one who brought up Krem’s binding as a friendly joke. My friends pointed out how incredibly hurtful such a callout was for many trans people in real life (“Hey, by the way, you’re actually a woman, just wanted to remind you!”) and that it made Bull into an incredibly offensive jerk. This was not at all what I wanted—people playing now will note that Bull and Krem give each other grief about little things all the time, but never attack truly sore spots—and I rewrote the scene so that Krem is the one who brings it up first. This makes it clear that Krem is comfortable discussing being trans, and the player will not be offending Krem by asking questions about it.

In the investigate hub where you can ask Krem about his past in Tevinter, the first draft had him deserting after fighting off someone who discovered his secret and tried to assault him. My friends noted that this played directly into the sad “attacked trans person” cliché, and while it was plausible, it was an ugly event that could well trigger trans people who have experienced harassment in real life. The goal was for Krem to be a positive character who was living his life happily now, and I revised his departure from Tevinter accordingly.

(Very few writers enjoy talking about things they messed up in their first drafts, and I am no exception. That said, I am hugely grateful to my friends for helping me avoid some obvious-in-retrospect mistakes. Their help was amazing, and any stuff that still bothers people is on me and me alone.)

The Reception
We are all proud to have brought Krem to life in the game, and seeing people in the genderqueer community respond positively to him has been wonderful. We are also listening to feedback on how we can improve with characters in the future. (For example, some trans folks feel I wrote the player choices to be too clueless or uninformed, and wished for options to speak from more personal experience. I’ve heard the feedback, and I intend to do better next time.) It would be a lie to say that this was as easy as creating any other human character—it was uncharted territory for all of us on both the technical and the artistic side—but it was worth the extra effort. The world of Dragon Age has room for people of all backgrounds and identities, and it was a pleasure to show that in one more way.

http://blog.bioware.com/2014/12/04/building-a-character-cremisius-krem-aclassi/

Yeah, this character probably received a lot more effort than the main villain for sure.

What is this "him" shit? Wearing male clothes does not make a woman a man.

Probably spent more time on this character than the gameplay too.

This entire interview rubbed me the wrong way, not because transgender characters have no place in games, but because the entire goal was to have a character who is the epitome of positive and politically correct, such that all opportunities for drama, conflict, and investigations of the human condition are forfeit at the altar of not 'offending' any trans players. And then the designer has the galls to say that he/she wasn't designing a token character.

I'm sorry, but what you designed is practically the definition of a token character: a character that exists only to represent a certain gender/race/sexual orientation, and which serves no purpose outside of :incloosive:. Heck, you even admit it at the end:

The world of Dragon Age has room for people of all backgrounds and identities, and it was a pleasure to show that in one more way.

How the fuck is this not tokenism?

And yes, you succeeded in making Krem an utterly innocuous and therefore forgettable character, such that I even had to look up who this character is before making this post. And no, I did not get the impression that she was a trans man, just a manly woman, of which there are plenty in DA.

 

[RPGMaster]

The most memorable thing about Krem is that she stands on chairs when talking to you. Total nutcase.

 

[mastroego]

This entire interview rubbed me the wrong way, not because transgender characters have no place in games, but because the entire goal was to have a character who is the epitome of positive and politically correct, such that all opportunities for drama, conflict, and investigations of the human condition are forfeit at the altar of not 'offending' any trans players. And then the designer has the galls to say that he/she wasn't designing a token character.

I'm sorry, but what you designed is practically the definition of a token character: a character that exists only to represent a certain gender/race/sexual orientation, and which serves no purpose outside of :incloosive:. Heck, you even admit it at the end:

The world of Dragon Age has room for people of all backgrounds and identities, and it was a pleasure to show that in one more way.

How the fuck is this not tokenism?

And yes, you succeeded in making Krem an utterly innocuous and therefore forgettable character, such that I even had to look up who this character is before making this post. And no, I did not get the impression that she was a trans man, just a manly woman, of which there are plenty in DA.

There's an Italian saying which I believe roughly equals the English saying "Truth is the daughter of time".
Worry not, in time all will know that shit is shit and the game will be forgotten.
Real gems will be cherished by small followings (initially), then preserved through the passing of time.
Just think about Torment, to stay (perhaps a bit too dramatically) in the world of video games.

It also happens with movies, for instance. Awards to shit movies are given all the time, nevertheless, those movies being shit, people quickly forget about them after the initial -inflated- interest.

It also happens in literature and has happened throughout history, but it'd take a more cultured and refined man than I am to come up with meaningful examples.

 

[Malpercio]

Oh man... reading people comments on GOTY about this around... I feel like I'm on crazy pills

 

[SarcasticUndertones]

So that coming from a guy who's behind BG2

He was one if its many designers, not its sole architect. And I believe his role since then has shifted from general design (including combat encounters and area design) to only writing (which he was always bad at).

Of course all games have a whole team of developers, it's never just one man anyway but you shouldn't diminish Gaider's contribution to BG2.

I'm not diminishing his contribution, I was talking about how his role has shifted. He may or may not be a gifted gameplay designer, but I don't see how that justifies anything when those skills aren't being put to use (if anything, it makes it even more egregious). And Gaider certainly doesn't seem to mind the direction Bioware headed in.

In all fairness when he was doing area design he was still 'respectable', I remember the extra combat he used to put out for BG2 and he was ok then, but since he's started to put words on a page (I refuse to call him a 'writer') he's become a douchenozzle. Everytime I think of him, which admittedly isn't often, I'm always reminded of the South Park ep where they're all smelling their own farts.

 

[set]

Writing out conflict just so you do not offend your audience is recipe for a trite tale. In-fact, it's probably the biggest literary mistake you can make. Controversy breeds a following.

 

[Gondolin]

Wait, what? Krem is supposed to be man?

 

[dryan]

They're just giving what the people want.
Kotaku praised their representation of Trans-ppl:

https://archive.today/DVXfp