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The Mass Effect 3/BioWare Thread

SoupNazi

Guest
I don't know why you mention the rachni queen as an example of something potentially good, Sceptic. That whole thing is the worst gaping plot hole if I've ever seen one. "Hurr durr reapers assembled corpses of rachni and made me" my ass.
 

Regdar

Arcane
Joined
Apr 24, 2011
Messages
665
I don't know why you mention the rachni queen as an example of something potentially good, Sceptic. That whole thing is the worst gaping plot hole if I've ever seen one. "Hurr durr reapers assembled corpses of rachni and made me" my ass.

The krogan who's covering Shepard's escape survives if you import him from ME2. There's an extended cutscene involved and some extra war assets. But yeah, generally every time that a plot point involving a character that had died or hadn't been discovered in previous games, they get a generic replacement, so the only difference is fewer lines of dialogue. Although I'm sure if Bioware discovered a way to reuse voice acting for these clones they would have. Oh wait, they did it with Legion - and in the most derptastic way imagineable. :lol:

It's actually worth it, I think, if one could stomach the game a second time, to import a "worst possible save" where the maximum amount of party members and important NPCs were either not recruited or killed, just to see how similar the game plays out. C&C my ass.
 

SoupNazi

Guest
I meant the fact that if you don't kill the rachni queen in ME1, she's "kidnapped" by the reapers and turned into a half-rachni half-reaper freak. If you do kill her, you encounter a half-rachni half-reaper freak. And everything is the same, except for a few lines of "BUT OMG WE KILLED THE LAST RACHNI HOW CAN THIS BE". The right way to handle that would have been to just not have that mission in the game at all, with "ravagers" just being reaper design that resembles the rachni or something. But NOOO every player needs to see every single bit of content they make!1!1!!
 

SoupNazi

Guest
So I just finished the game and it's even more derp that I thought it would. I thought people were just exaggerating, but wow. I'm not sure if I was stupid though, but I didn't get any other "choice" than to take control of the Reapers? I tried shooting things as I saw in vids but couldn't. Also, in the ending cinematic, none of the shipmates were there, and after it pans to Normandy crashlanding, when the door opens it just goes black (so I don't see who leaves) and goes straight to credits.

One thing I found interesting is that I never even met the Brothean so I'm not sure where I went wrong with that, either. Either way, pretty much plothole after plothole, and not even ones you need to pay special attention to - they just jump out at you and even if you haven't been paying much attention to ME2 like me, it stands out.

Also not sure where the theory that Shepard was indoctrinated all along comes from (unless that's really just a satire theory to make the ending seem less derp?), because the kid at the end says Illusive Man couldn't control them since they already controlled him. So in theory if Shep was indoctrinated, she couldn't control the Reapers either.

Either way, I give it 5/10 purely because I managed to finish it and because some of the missions were actually pretty fun. But honestly, I only finished it because I really liked ME1 and wanted to see an end to Shepard and some of the characters I've grown to like. Seeing Liara and Garrus dead on the battlefield before entering the magical beam of light elevator was sad :(
 

Sceptic

Arcane
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Joined
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Messages
10,878
Divinity: Original Sin
I don't know why you mention the rachni queen as an example of something potentially good, Sceptic. That whole thing is the worst gaping plot hole if I've ever seen one.
Oh god no, I am NOT mentioning is as a good plot, but purely in terms of C&C mechanics, ie what the good option in ME3 is changes depending on what you did in ME1. The idea is theoretically solid. You saved the queen in ME1, and she kinda proves in ME2 that she's trustworthy (when you meet the asari she's controlling), and you save her again in ME3? awesome, you're a smart player, you get rewarded. You killed her in ME1 because you're a genocidal maniac (and let's face it, it WAS pretty obvious form the way the renegade choice proceeds that this wasn't a "too risky for the galaxy" choice) and then proceeded to save the clearly-indoctrinated built-by-Reapers expy? you're an idiot, and the game punishes you accordingly. Keep in mind I'm talking purely in cause-and-effect here, not judging the quality of the underlying story. Now of course in terms of plot the whole thing is pretty stupid, because hey rachni are extinct! oh hey they're not after all, we found this queen! oh hey, even if you kill the queen you STILL find some rachni in a sidequest! oh and by the way there's this new queen being built 2 games later!... yeah.

I meant the fact that if you don't kill the rachni queen in ME1, she's "kidnapped" by the reapers and turned into a half-rachni half-reaper freak. If you do kill her, you encounter a half-rachni half-reaper freak. And everything is the same, except for a few lines of "BUT OMG WE KILLED THE LAST RACHNI HOW CAN THIS BE". The right way to handle that would have been to just not have that mission in the game at all, with "ravagers" just being reaper design that resembles the rachni or something. But NOOO every player needs to see every single bit of content they make!1!1!!
The entire game is like this. Killed Wrex? Wreav takes his place, with some random guy taking Wreav's place. Killed Mordin? Wiks takes his place. Killed Grunt? some other Krogan is there. Killed Legion? Legion is there (wait what? "holographic reconstruction" my ass). From what I can tell (from not replaying the game. so I may be wrong) the sole exception is Garrus, who truly doesn't get replaced and is just... not there. It's kinda weird watching the bits where he's supposed to be there when he's not.

So I just finished the game and it's even more derp that I thought it would. I thought people were just exaggerating, but wow. I'm not sure if I was stupid though, but I didn't get any other "choice" than to take control of the Reapers? I tried shooting things as I saw in vids but couldn't. Also, in the ending cinematic, none of the shipmates were there, and after it pans to Normandy crashlanding, when the door opens it just goes black (so I don't see who leaves) and goes straight to credits.
Extremely low war assets gives this. Funnily enough, the difference between this and the best ending is.... not that much.

One thing I found interesting is that I never even met the Brothean so I'm not sure where I went wrong with that
Did you have his DLC?

Also not sure where the theory that Shepard was indoctrinated all along comes from
Fanboys gonna fanboy, obviously. Personally I find the Marauder Shields being the last bastion of sanity and the true savior of the universe meme to be much more entertaining.

Either way, I give it 5/10 purely because I managed to finish it and because some of the missions were actually pretty fun. But honestly, I only finished it because I really liked ME1 and wanted to see an end to Shepard and some of the characters I've grown to like. Seeing Liara and Garrus dead on the battlefield before entering the magical beam of light elevator was sad
That was also a low-score event, and actually saved you from yet ANOTHER plot hole, because otherwise they would've magically vanished when the beam hit and would've magically reappeared on the crash-landed Normandy. Don't ask.

Some of the side missions were pretty good. And some of the character arcs were pretty good too. I do like that the sidequests and the NPC missions are actually entertwined with the main plot, you don't see this very often and it's actually a great way to write sidequests... provided your actual plot is good of course. But ultimately the main plot with Cerberus, the Catalyst, the Reapers' motivation, etc just makes no sense no matter what, so it would've taken a pretty major overhaul to fix the game into something that's actually good, regardless of the derp endings.
 

racofer

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The entire game is like this. Killed Wrex? Wreav takes his place, with some random guy taking Wreav's place. Killed Mordin? Wiks takes his place. Killed Grunt? some other Krogan is there. Killed Legion? Legion is there (wait what? "holographic reconstruction" my ass). From what I can tell (from not replaying the game. so I may be wrong) the sole exception is Garrus, who truly doesn't get replaced and is just... not there. It's kinda weird watching the bits where he's supposed to be there when he's not.

This is just like that thing I was talking about.
 

SoupNazi

Guest
Ah... that explains my confusion, thanks, Sceptic. I didn't have Javik's DLC indeed (didn't know there was one - and wow - a DLC just to meet a prothean - talk about fan service turned into money cow).

I had about 1800 war assets and 50% readiness (no MP at all), so I see I was just over the line of failing utterly (which is 1750). Hilariously enough you're right that seeing Liara and Garrus dead was probably better than them magically appearing on Normandy afterwards :lol:. I'm actually pretty happy with my ending, it's a fitting end for the adventure my Shep had, though I can see how by seeing all of them people felt bummed, and obviously plotholes are gonna plothole.

Apparently, destroying or keeping the Collector base somehow influences the ending, but I can't tell how - I mean I see the break-down, and it just scrambles the endings about a bit or something, but what effect does that actually have, in the story? All I could see that was a direct consequence of me not destroying it was the human-reaper remains used in the Cerberus base for decoration.

On a more positive note, I really enjoyed Thane's arc and his death, as well as Jack's (though I suppose if she hadn't been there not much would have changed? I liked what they did with her in terms of development however. Shooting shit with Garrus on top of the Presidium was also a nice touch. It's sad because it's clear that some aspects of the game, or should I say some dev decisions/writing wasn't so bad so there was definitely potential for three great games, instead I see it as one great (ME1 - sue me), one bad (ME2) and one mediocre (ME3 obviously). Oh well. I definitely won't be replaying this though, and when the DLC with "improved" endings come out I'll probably just watch youtube endings again like I did with the ME2 and ME3 endings.
 

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
All I could see that was a direct consequence of me not destroying it was the human-reaper remains used in the Cerberus base for decoration.
It's there even if you destroy the base. "They must have scavenged it from the destroyed base"
 

RPGMaster

Savant
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
Messages
703
I like this Weekes guy. He seem to be pretty disappointed with the game as well and though he can't come out an rip his employers a new one directly he did so in a subversive manner.

All the stuff about choices and consequence aren't his fault, they're clearly "from above". He basically stuck a finger up to EAware by revealing what he did.

He also wrote my favourite (ie, least retarded) stuff in ME2&3.

He should work for someone better.


Also fuck you guys I LOVE ALPHA PROTOCOL THIS MUCH!!!
 

RPGMaster

Savant
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
Messages
703
All I could see that was a direct consequence of me not destroying it was the human-reaper remains used in the Cerberus base for decoration.
It's there even if you destroy the base. "They must have scavenged it from the destroyed base"

That's the big consequence Walters promised.

2j0bjvs.jpg
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,722
Actually, the difference is they delete the human reaper skull from that environment if you destroy the cerberus base. And you get 10 (actually 5 if you don't play multiplayer) less war readiness.

Technically, the reaper skull is "very big" compared to your character? :roll:
 

SoupNazi

Guest
man, how hard would it have been to just design that area in two variations (with and without the human reaper at all)? how long would it take a person who's responsible for level design? back then when I was playing with GTKradiant and making maps for Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy it would take me about half a day of work (i.e. not more than 3-4 hours). jesus christ, denton
 

Outlander

Custom Tags Are For Fags.
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Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Somebody should compile ALL the plot holes, ALL the in-game evidence proving that Bioware flat-out lied to their costumer's faces, along with appropriate screenshots both from the game and from interviews/tweets/press releases and do a massive Bioware-ripping-Oblivion-style-epic-RPGCodex-review.

The lulz and the butthurt would be of majestic proportions.

I'm willing to help hunting down incriminating evidence from various websites.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,001
In an inteview with NowGamer at Gamescom, we asked if BioWare was taking risks with Mass Effect 3's plot, including a negative ending in which the Reapers win. Gamble simply said, "Yes". We asked him again to confirm what he had just said and he said, "Yes".

This doesn't sound like a lie though.
 

CrustyBot

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
814
Codex 2012
Chris Priestly said:
They are not lies. This thread is closed.


LOCKDOWN!

:hearnoevil::balance: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


McNu4.gif


Somebody should compile ALL the plot holes, ALL the in-game evidence proving that Bioware flat-out lied to their costumer's faces, along with appropriate screenshots both from the game and from interviews/tweets/press releases and do a massive Bioware-ripping-Oblivion-style-epic-RPGCodex-review.

The lulz and the butthurt would be of majestic proportions.

I'm willing to help hunting down incriminating evidence from various websites.

I'd do it, but I haven't played Mass Effect 3.

:smug:

Anyways, not ME related but fuck it, this thread is still LOL BIOWARE to me.

Some Informations about Dragon Age at PAX

BioWare: The Next Dragon Age Won't Reuse Levels, Will Have Decisions That Matter

BioWare said at PAX East today that it's taking fan feedback on the future of its Dragon Age series — and harsh criticisms of Dragon Age II — to heart. At the developer's first panel today, Dragon Age creative director Mike Laidlaw walked fans through some of the most frequently vocalized criticisms and suggestions, hinting at three key changes coming to the next entry: equipment for your followers, decisions that matter and no more reuse of levels.

Laidlaw couched his statements about the future of Dragon Age by saying that the topics under discussion were not official announcements.

"We're not making promises here, we're talking about ideas," he warned.

On the subject of equipment for followers in future Dragon Age games, Laidlaw illustrated how armor sets might look different on different classes of followers.

"Suppose, in your party, you have a Gray Warden. And suppose you had a Seeker," he said, showing a male Gray Warden and female Seeker. "And you had this thing: a suit of armor, a chest piece, and it had stats and stuff."
Laidlaw showed that armor set applied to the Warden, then to the Seeker, in concept art form. The armor looked slightly different on each, with "thematic" aesthetic differences applied so "they don't lose their identity in the process." Laidlaw then showed a slew of concept art, with various armor pieces from helmets to shoulder guards to bracers, then full sets, each applied to the two different classes.

He also teased the possibility that players might be able to fully customize armor pieces, applying color and types of material (cloth, leather, mail) to armor sets.

On the topic of "decisions that matter," Laidlaw said BioWare is looking to add more character agency ("My character has an active effect on his or her world, determined by my choices") and player agency ("I have control over my gameplay experience") to future Dragon Age games.

And player decisions that carry over from game to game could be given more attention, he said.
As for the oft-heard critique of Dragon Age II, that BioWare recycled dungeons and environments to an annoying degree, Laidlaw said it will stop reusing levels again and again and again.

"We're looking for variety, space and scope," Laidlaw said, showing concept art of huge open spaces (and at least one dark dungeon). He hinted that players will likely "go somewhere new, somewhere a little more… French" in the future.

All that said, all of it to a warm response from the hundreds of gathered Dragon Age fans, Laidlaw reiterated all of this would be "kind of cool, in theory" and that the developer wasn't ready to announce anything it wasn't comfortable showing.

Decisions that matter: How to dress up your characters and make them look pretty.

Update:
Finally found some pics of the panel.

da_panel_1.jpg


da_panel_cosplay.jpg

:lol:

I feel a bit sorry for Jessica Merizan though. I mean, she was probably forced into it. She's a cosplayer, but it's one thing to cosplay in your free time; it's another thing to be cosplaying as part of your job as a "Community Manager" or w/e she does.

How does BSN feel about the article?

6KcxF.jpg


:thumbsup:
 

Sceptic

Arcane
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Joined
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Messages
10,878
Divinity: Original Sin
Ah... that explains my confusion, thanks, Sceptic. I didn't have Javik's DLC indeed
Actually my question is misleading - yes you do have it. You probably just didn't activate it :smug:
Yes, the DLC is included in the game. All you need to activate is to hex edit 6 bytes in the main executable have bought the preorder edition.
(so... does it count as piracy if you can activate content you didn't pay for without actually downloading ANYTHING at all?)
(oh and don't try this at home, not sure how Origin would respond to a modified exe)


I had about 1800 war assets and 50% readiness (no MP at all), so I see I was just over the line of failing utterly (which is 1750). Hilariously enough you're right that seeing Liara and Garrus dead was probably better than them magically appearing on Normandy afterwards :lol:. I'm actually pretty happy with my ending, it's a fitting end for the adventure my Shep had, though I can see how by seeing all of them people felt bummed, and obviously plotholes are gonna plothole.
Thing is, if you have a high rating (like I did) you don't get automatically assigned one ending, you get to PICK between 3. All identical except for the color. So I really do understand people being pissed off. Especially when all the difference between whether you pick the "best" ending with a rating of 5000 or whether you get automatically assigned the worst ending with a rating of 1500 is whether the screen fades to black before or after the Normandy door opens...



Apparently, destroying or keeping the Collector base somehow influences the ending, but I can't tell how - I mean I see the break-down, and it just scrambles the endings about a bit or something, but what effect does that actually have, in the story?
Not sure. Supposedly at low rating the game auto-picks either the destroy or the control ending the red or the green ending depending on that decision, but I don't have enough data to be sure. As for the Giant Space Terminator, what Jaedar said,



On a more positive note, I really enjoyed Thane's arc and his death, as well as Jack's (though I suppose if she hadn't been there not much would have changed? I liked what they did with her in terms of development however. Shooting shit with Garrus on top of the Presidium was also a nice touch. It's sad because it's clear that some aspects of the game, or should I say some dev decisions/writing wasn't so bad so there was definitely potential for three great games, instead I see it as one great (ME1 - sue me), one bad (ME2) and one mediocre (ME3 obviously).
Thane's arc was faaaaaaaaaaar too ponderous for me (painfully so at the end) so I rank it as one of the lows. Jack's was pretty good, but her absence just affects one completely inconsequential death and nothign more. Garrus's was great IMO. Him, Mordin and Legion had some pretty good arcs spanning 2 and 3, and the bromance on top of the Citadel was one of the game's best moments. I even like Tali's little scene when landing on Rannoch. Sure it's no Shakespeare, but compared to what the game's supposed to be (space opera) it's a nice little touch. When it comes to some NPCs in ME2 and ME3 Bioware did manage to write some good banter and characterization, it's a shame it's lost among the general derp of the main stories and some truly awful character arcs.

Regarding how good or bad the games are - I actually like ME1 as a brainless space opera action game with some RPG elements and quick-moving combat that doesn't overly rely on cover, and it's probably the most balanced of the trilogy; nothing great (some would argue or even good) but nothing absolutely terribly bad either (UI issues aside). ME2 was schizophrenic; combat was absolutely horrendous cover-shooter of the most popamole variety, coupled to Bioware's best writing to date sitting side by side with some of their most horrible writing to date. ME3 is... I don't know. I think its combat system is actually very good as an action-RPGlite, definitely the best in the series; ME2 sucked because of too much cover and too few abilities, ME3 has more abilities and more health/shields so less reliance on cover so the whole thing feels more dynamic. Some of the big fights are actually tons of fun on Insanity (though Insanity really is not as difficulty as it should be, but then I wouldn't play a higher difficulty even if it existed so I don't care). Even the upgrade/mods system is way better than ME1's inventory clusterfuck while not being as restrictively boring as ME2's. The big problem is that the entire structure of the SP game is way too linear, and on a related note there are way, WAY too many cinematics; and when you spend the bulk of the game watching things happen outside your control, if your story and set up suck then your "game" is a lost cause. Had they got their act together with the consequences in the final stages of the game all coming together, and if they'd just reduced the Cerberus/Catalyst derp, the game would've been damn fine even with the plot holes and generic setting and all that. Come to think of it it really wouldn't have taken THAT much work to turn it from "WTF is this shit" to "this is actually a pretty good shooter-RPG". Too bad they went full retard instead.

Looking at the rage on BSN I'm glad I was never invested in the series or in Bioware, or in that kind of SF in general, so I can just sit back and coldly analyze. If I'd truly liked the series beforehand (as opposed to "hey this is ok") I would've been raging too.


Somebody should compile ALL the plot holes, ALL the in-game evidence proving that Bioware flat-out lied to their costumer's faces, along with appropriate screenshots both from the game and from interviews/tweets/press releases and do a massive Bioware-ripping-Oblivion-style-epic-RPGCodex-review.
God no, way too much work. That's WAY too many plot holes and lies.
 

waywardOne

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2010
Messages
2,318
FF gets the hot cozzies; DA gets the ugly ones.
 

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