Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[Deuce Traveler]

I'm glad you started with the first one and that you liked it. As you mentioned, the story is thin in each individual game, but the series as a whole has bits of a story that seems a bit more epic when you play through it all. The story found in MM1 really isn't wrapped up until MM5. As you mentioned, the exploration is the best aspect of play, and although your characters seemed overpowered at the end it was likely due to you being rewarded for taking time to find numerous secrets throughout the gameworld.

Now get on to MM2!

 

[Scroo]

Hmm seeing everyone praising it I guess I really should give M&M 1 a try. I am looking for an oldschool rpg to play atm anyway so why not M&M 1. What's a recommended party?

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Hmm seeing everyone praising it I guess I really should give M&M 1 a try. I am looking for an oldschool rpg to play atm anyway so why not M&M 1. What's a recommended party?

There are six slots and six classes, and you really want one of each. Also, you may want to keep rolling for high stats, especially in things like Speed which effects initiative. I actually spent a few nights on character generation while watching Netflix until I felt like I had a good starting party and some back-up characters.

 

[Scroo]

Hmm seeing everyone praising it I guess I really should give M&M 1 a try. I am looking for an oldschool rpg to play atm anyway so why not M&M 1. What's a recommended party?

There are six slots and six classes, and you really want one of each. Also, you may want to keep rolling for high stats, especially in things like Speed which effects initiative. I actually spent a few nights on character generation while watching Netflix until I felt like I had a good starting party and some back-up characters.

Ok good to know, tbh in M&M III - V I was using the pregenerated party but I figured that in the harder earlier games this might not be advised Didn't know that there are only 6 classes tho. Time for some dice rolling then.

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

What is the codex consensus on Swords of Xeen? Worth playing or no?

 

[kmonster]

Ok good to know, tbh in M&M III - V I was using the pregenerated party but I figured that in the harder earlier games this might not be advised Didn't know that there are only 6 classes tho. Time for some dice rolling then.

Use the pregenerated party in MM1. Unlike in the sequels you'll have an hard time rolling a better one.

 

[Sceptic]

I must admit Og's Quest was probably the most difficult quest in the game. Sadly it wasn't very rewarding.

Not in terms of items or XP. Og's quest is probably the hardest in the entire series, but it's not unfairly so and it's probably one of my favourite blobber puzzle. The reward is in the immense sense of satisfaction you get once you manage to put everything together and solve it without help. It's been 25 years and I still remember the satisfaction.

Well I have finished Might and Magic. My opinion of it is that it's a great game that deserves more credit. Everyone goes for Xeen or the M&M6 engine games and forgets or ignores M&M1. That's a big error on my opinion.

And another one joins the MM1 fanclub
Congratulations on completing the game spoiler-free. I'm glad you enjoyed it as much as you did.

The story is not that great though, but it encourages exploration in order to find the needed clues, and the ending itself is actually quite rewarding and unexpected. It's nice that it also ties directly with M&M2. The story probably suffers because there is very little NPC interaction, I'm used to the Ultima series which shine in this aspect and M&M seems to go more for exploration than NPC interactivity. The world itself is full of little tidbits and cllues and I really liked exploring and finding as much information about it as I could.

This is how the Holy Trinity works: Ultima is for storyfags, Wizardry is for combatfags, and M&M is for explorationfags. I find comparing the series knowing this to be a bit unfair. Sure MM1 does have a solid combat system, just like some of the Ultimas had good exploration, but it's not the main draw of the series. As Deuce said the overarching plot in M&M is pretty fun, and I really like M&M's approach to having little tidbits for you to discover rather than advancing a more conventional story through NPCs, as this play up the game's main strength (exploration).

I think the Archer is way overpowered...

This holds true for most games. Even in MM8 the Dark Elf (Archer in everything but name) is very, very powerful.

Looking forward to play M&M2. Not sure if I will use my chars or create new ones. Even if my levels go down, my stats are quite high so probably they are a bit overpowered.

I like importing and I always do it if I have the chance. MM2 levels go higher than MM1, so starting with a bit of a head start is unlikely to make a huge difference at the end. Up to you though.

 

[Scroo]

Ok good to know, tbh in M&M III - V I was using the pregenerated party but I figured that in the harder earlier games this might not be advised Didn't know that there are only 6 classes tho. Time for some dice rolling then.

Use the pregenerated party in MM1. Unlike in the sequels you'll have an hard time rolling a better one.

Oh? Is the pregen party useful tho? And does it make sense to import it to M&M 2 then?

 

[Sceptic]

Oh? Is the pregen party useful tho? And does it make sense to import it to M&M 2 then?

Yes and yes.

As kmonster said, the pregen party has much better than average stats, and it's very well balanced (one of each class, good races for each class, and so on).

 

[Scroo]

Oh? Is the pregen party useful tho? And does it make sense to import it to M&M 2 then?

Yes and yes.

As kmonster said, the pregen party has much better than average stats, and it's very well balanced (one of each class, good races for each class, and so on).

Ok cool, thanks for the help

 

[Natreg]

Ok good to know, tbh in M&M III - V I was using the pregenerated party but I figured that in the harder earlier games this might not be advised Didn't know that there are only 6 classes tho. Time for some dice rolling then.

Use the pregenerated party in MM1. Unlike in the sequels you'll have an hard time rolling a better one.

Oh? Is the pregen party useful tho? And does it make sense to import it to M&M 2 then?

I used the pregenerated party myself and they are really good characters, specially if you are new to the game.

Right now If I did a new playthrough I'll probably generate a party myself. If you go with the generating party approach, I recommend giving them stats above 15 when possible, having a different class and race (those change attributes and resistances) for each character, and most importantly, make sure your Sorcerer has the highest speed of the party while your cleric has the lowest. The pregenerated party went something like this during combat: Sorcerer, Archer, Robber, Fighter, Cleric, Paladin and as you can notice, sorcerer and archer (attack spells) are first, and Cleric and Paladin (healing and defense spells) are last. That approach helps a lot. Alignment is not that important, but to turn undead you need to maintain your initial alignment on your clerics/Paladins. Gender on the other hand is an important part of the game at some point, but I think it's fun to have a mixed gender party




Regarding M&M2, I just finished reading the manual and I got a few questions about it.

I noticed that there is a "control" option that seems to control the difficulty of the game. What difficulty is recommended? is the hardest one too hard? (I tend to select hardest difficulty but I don't want the game to get on my nerves either).

Also I'm a bit confuse about auto-mapping. Is cartography really worth it as a skill? I notice there are spells that do the same. Do these spells need to be active so that squares are marked as stepped on? I'm going to do maps anyway, but having the map with showing me which places I have already visited would probably be helpful in some places.

I noticed 2 new classes, Ninja and Barbarian. Do any hireling use those classes? I really would like to have those, but unless I create specific characters I won't be using them if using my party from M&M1.

Finally I was wondering if I should use both the pregenerated party and the M&M1 party. Would it cause problems with quests If I alternate them or if I mix them?

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

I noticed 2 new classes, Ninja and Barbarian. Do any hireling use those classes?

Yep.

And btw barbarian's name is Drog!

 

[TigerKnee]

Also I'm a bit confuse about auto-mapping. Is cartography really worth it as a skill? I notice there are spells that do the same. Do these spells need to be active so that squares are marked as stepped on? I'm going to do maps anyway, but having the map with showing me which places I have already visited would probably be helpful in some places.

I think the version of Auto-Maps that the spell and the skill gives you are different.

It's worth it if you're super lazy like me and don't like to draw your own maps... that being said, the auto-map in M&M2 is so primitive that unless you have a good memory you're probably going to have to design your own maps anyway. The in-game maps do help, in that I take a screenshot and then label important parts of it with an external paint program

I noticed 2 new classes, Ninja and Barbarian. Do any hireling use those classes? I really would like to have those, but unless I create specific characters I won't be using them if using my party from M&M1.

I can think of at least one Ninja Hireling. I'm certain there are Barb ones as well.

 

[Sceptic]

I noticed that there is a "control" option that seems to control the difficulty of the game. What difficulty is recommended? is the hardest one too hard? (I tend to select hardest difficulty but I don't want the game to get on my nerves either).

I remember nothing about any of this, sorry.

Also I'm a bit confuse about auto-mapping. Is cartography really worth it as a skill? I notice there are spells that do the same. Do these spells need to be active so that squares are marked as stepped on? I'm going to do maps anyway, but having the map with showing me which places I have already visited would probably be helpful in some places.

You only get 2 skills per character, and cartography will eat one of these slots. If you're drawing your own maps you may want to skip the automap entirely. Up to you though.

I noticed 2 new classes, Ninja and Barbarian. Do any hireling use those classes? I really would like to have those, but unless I create specific characters I won't be using them if using my party from M&M1.

There are multiple hirelings for each class. IIRC you get a barbarian quite early and as part of the MQ. I usually got with my MM1 party + ninja and barbarian hirelings just for the hell of it. It's not the best party but it doesn't really matter.

Finally I was wondering if I should use both the pregenerated party and the M&M1 party. Would it cause problems with quests If I alternate them or if I mix them?

IIRC pregen MM2 party starts at level 1, so you mix you'll get an odd combination of level 7s and 1s in one party. I can't imagine it causing a problem though. I would go for the MM1 party as I said earlier, but up to you.

 

[octavius]

Hmm seeing everyone praising it I guess I really should give M&M 1 a try. I am looking for an oldschool rpg to play atm anyway so why not M&M 1. What's a recommended party?

The pregens are better than what you will roll in less than several hours, and they come with money and equipment. Only downside is that there's only one female, since gender actually matters in MM1.

 

[octavius]

Regarding M&M2, I just finished reading the manual and I got a few questions about it.

I noticed that there is a "control" option that seems to control the difficulty of the game. What difficulty is recommended? is the hardest one too hard? (I tend to select hardest difficulty but I don't want the game to get on my nerves either).

It's hard to recommend anything, as it depends on your own play style. Personally I tend to go for normal difficulty in CRPGs, but highest difficulty in turn based strategy games. But note that the beginning of MM2 is quite hard even with imported characters, and extremely difficult with new characters unless you meta game.
Come to think of it, if I'm not mistaken the "control" setting only controls the random encounter frequency. The default frequency is not very high. I never went "Oh no! Not again" when I played MM2.

Also I'm a bit confuse about auto-mapping. Is cartography really worth it as a skill? I notice there are spells that do the same. Do these spells need to be active so that squares are marked as stepped on? I'm going to do maps anyway, but having the map with showing me which places I have already visited would probably be helpful in some places.

The automap is pretty crude and it won't show any special places or encounters, nor can you annotate it.
One thing that is imprtant in MM2 is facing. Some things, like entrances to town and dungeons, will only appear if facing the right direction. So make sure you look in all directions when exploring.

 

[Natreg]

Well, I have started M&M2 and explored Middlegate. I decided to go with the pre generated characters to check how difficult it was, so far I'm level 4 already and I just explored the town, so, not that difficult after all.

I'm not enjoying it as much as M&M1 so far. The combats seem a bit slower, and they decided to add way too many enemies on them. The graphics look nice, but the rendering of the walls for some reason doesn't render more than 3 walls on the distance. Maybe M&M1 did the same and I didn't notice but here is quite clear. It may have to do with M&M1 having a black background whereas M&M2 has a more detailed one. I keep making mistakes on the combats since I'm so used to the spell numbers from M&M1... I wish they had retained them with the same number, but I suppose it makes sense since this was the anti-piracy of the game.

Not everything is bad though, Graphics are indeed a step forward, and animations an design looks quite good. They finally added the monster picture in the combat (it doesn't change even if you defeat that specific monster, but it's an upgrade from M&M1 for sure). I also noticed there is an item identify option on shops, so another thing I had problems with in M&M1 solved. Middlegate is by far the place with more notes I have mapped. Only Ranalou's Cavern in M&M1 comes close to this, but that cave was particularly annoying with all those teleporters...

I'm not sure yet what to think of Skills. On one hand they look like a nice addition, on the other it seems when I get the money I'll select a few of them and forget about the for the rest of my play-through...

I'll keep playing of course, and I hope I like it in the end as much as M&M1.

 

[octavius]

Well, I have started M&M2 and explored Middlegate. I decided to go with the pre generated characters to check how difficult it was, so far I'm level 4 already and I just explored the town, so, not that difficult after all.

You must have got lucky with the encounters then.
As for skills, it may be possible to drop the first one you get and replace them with others.

 

[Natreg]

Well, I have started M&M2 and explored Middlegate. I decided to go with the pre generated characters to check how difficult it was, so far I'm level 4 already and I just explored the town, so, not that difficult after all.

You must have got lucky with the encounters then.
As for skills, it may be possible to drop the first one you get and replace them with others.

Well, I did die a lot, but I was also reckless and didn't cast any protection spells or anything. I could probably fare better using bless, sleep and things like that.

I got levels really quickly too, My equipment is not that good though, but I suppose that with time that will change.
I'll explore the caverns below next, and do my first quest, which I already know where to find the goblets thanks to some rumors at the local tavern.

 

[TigerKnee]

The status effects in M&M2 doesn't seem that strong to me... or maybe I should actually keep mathematical track of how often Web fails...

 

[Luzur]

use the wizards wardrobe as a grinding tool.

 

[Dorateen]

Have you met the Cuisinarts yet?

 

[octavius]

The status effects in M&M2 doesn't seem that strong to me... or maybe I should actually keep mathematical track of how often Web fails...

Yeah, buffs and damage spells are more reliable.

 

[Luzur]

Here a guy that is doing a LP of World of Xeen with Jeff Ludwigs Monster mod:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZBORylr4exTi_x_xLSRVF-NxdssI9jy5

the mod:

http://www.jeffludwig.com/xeen/download.php

 

[Daemongar]

That mod looks really, really good. World of Xeen is good enough, but that is an impressive list of fixes. Also, my biggest pet peeve has been at least improved:

Equipped armor breaks when a character is knocked below -80 HP (before this threshold was -10 HP).

Definitely going to have to play this again to see just how balanced it is, but it looks hopeful!