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Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

What is the best Might & Magic game in the series?

  • Might and Magic: Book I

    Votes: 17 2.3%
  • Might and Magic II: Gates to Another World

    Votes: 29 3.9%
  • Might and Magic III: Isles of Terra

    Votes: 59 7.9%
  • Might and Magic: World of Xeen

    Votes: 183 24.5%
  • Might and Magic: Swords of Xeen

    Votes: 5 0.7%
  • Might and Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven

    Votes: 215 28.7%
  • Might and Magic VII: For Blood and Honor

    Votes: 130 17.4%
  • Might and Magic VIII: Day of the Destroyer

    Votes: 26 3.5%
  • Might and Magic IX

    Votes: 11 1.5%
  • Might and Magic X

    Votes: 73 9.8%

  • Total voters
    748

lukaszek

the determinator
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i shall keep it in line and spirit of your arguments

- mmx have better puzzles than most of the other games in the series
- mmx char gen choices matter most than in other games in the series
- mmx runs better than certain other game(s) in the series
- mmx got more inspired landscape than certain other games in the series that even made it to top3 in this poll
 

Justinian

Arcane
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You said 'arguably', which apparently you're unable to do.

Therefore, no brofists for you.

Case closed.
I was about to, but since you're being rude, I deleted my comment. I said it was already arguable, and someone already argued. That actually proves my point better, since the debate arose organically and didn't need me to artificially create one.

I win.
 

Crispy

I feel... young!
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The entire series is popamole, and X is arguably the least popamole of them all.
This is what you posted. I accepted the challenge and presented my arguments. You have none to support your statement.

I don't think I'm being rude; this is RPG Codex and you just insulted one of the greatest computer roleplaying games series ever. I'm not going to sit here and take that shit, especially when you qualify it by stating that it's "arguable".
 

lukaszek

the determinator
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King Crispy what makes you think that you can win argument against user who is deleting his posts in order to keep count at 69
 

Crispy

I feel... young!
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It's funny because I was just about to tell him I'm going to refer to him from now on as "One of Seventy".
 
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Talking about being exploitative - Terra isn't free from it. There are methods to exploit and completeley break the game, if you're patient and know the game well and played it a few... dozen... times.
True, M&M being torn apart by meta knowledge is kind of a consistent theme. I think that's actually part of the charm of the series, exploring and acquiring that knowledge is what makes the games great rather than just about level grinding. My issue with Xeen is that the exploits don't even require meta knowledge and tend to be very simple (warp to the 2nd town in clouds for level boost then cast day spells to invalidate almost all difficulty in clouds/darkside except for the hardest areas) or accidental (go to darkside for 30 mins to see what's there, possibly by accident just clicking at things in clouds, come back and you've outleveled half of clouds).
 

Justinian

Arcane
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The entire series is popamole, and X is arguably the least popamole of them all.
This is what you posted. I accepted the challenge and presented my arguments. You have none to support your statement.

I don't think I'm being rude; this is RPG Codex and you just insulted one of the greatest computer roleplaying games series ever. I'm not going to sit here and take that shit, especially when you qualify it by stating that it's "arguable".
M&M being popamole is established codex tradition.
tricycle.jpg


All the m&M's i've played had simple char development (always boost the same skills) and simple gameplay (spam damage spells or basic attacks). x has more enemies that require different approaches, positioning matters sometimes (IE: the naga boss that will push you off the lighthouse), the world is small but dense, lots of high quality puzzles to break up the combat, most in depth class/race design in the entire series. Only thing it really loses out on is the cheese. 6/7/8 had very good cheese. And you could use mods+real time mode to let you strafe like a FPS.
 

Crispy

I feel... young!
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This is an old meme, but a good one. It's designed to infuriate and does a good job of that. Do you even know who is being referenced in the 'Which is better and why? Discuss!!' caption?

All the m&M's i've played had simple char development (always boost the same skills)
The skills comment is a fair one to make, but you cannot stand by an implication that X's character creation and development on a whole surpasses anything M&M before it.

simple gameplay (spam damage spells or basic attacks)
Utterly unfair and disingenuous. You know as well as I do that X has "simple" gameplay as well. The Might and Magic series has never been known for its tactical complexity.

x has more enemies that require different approaches, positioning matters sometimes (IE: the naga boss that will push you off the lighthouse)
The naga example is an interesting one, but I thought that entire mechanism was rather cheesy on their part; you're forced into it and forced to fight on her terms.

And I don't think that X has more enemies. Are you stating that as a stand-alone statement or are you linking it to the positioning aspect?

the world is small but dense
:hype:

lots of high quality puzzles to break up the combat
I can't recall a single puzzle from the game. Does that mean they're not memorable at all or does it mean I have dementia?

most in depth class/race design in the entire series
M&M has always been rather human-centric, so I suppose this may be true. However, it doesn't qualify the entire series before X as being 'popamole'.

And you could use mods
No.

At least you presented arguments this time. Why did I have to beat them out of you?

Welcome to RPG Fucking Codex.
 

Justinian

Arcane
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This is an old meme, but a good one. It's designed to infuriate and does a good job of that. Do you even know who is being referenced in the 'Which is better and why? Discuss!!' caption?

I used to but I don't remember, sorry. Andhaira?
All the m&M's i've played had simple char development (always boost the same skills)
The skills comment is a fair one to make, but you cannot stand by an implication that X's character creation and development on a whole surpasses anything M&M before it.

Some classes can be built in different ways. For example, you can build a crusader as a pure spellcaster, and they are good at it (unlike previous games' hybrids which sucked at spellcasting). Their promotion ability also complements both a spellcaster and a melee oriented build. Levels and skill points are limited so specialization is encouraged.

simple gameplay (spam damage spells or basic attacks)
Utterly unfair and disingenuous. You know as well as I do that X has "simple" gameplay as well. The Might and Magic series has never been known for its tactical complexity.

In general sure, but compared to its predecessors? You build a knight and all you'll do is use the basic attack all game. X has enemies that require guard breaking, and melee chars have some abilities to help break through blocking, or defend other party members. It's not that complex but it's more than spam basic attack.

x has more enemies that require different approaches, positioning matters sometimes (IE: the naga boss that will push you off the lighthouse)
The naga example is an interesting one, but I thought that entire mechanism was rather cheesy on their part; you're forced into it and forced to fight on her terms.

And I don't think that X has more enemies. Are you stating that as a stand-alone statement or are you linking it to the positioning aspect?

I'm saying it has more enemies that require different approaches from the default "spam attacks/spells until they die." Some previous games had unique enemies, like spellcasters that cast reflection, or those light wisps that dispel your buffs (can easily get you killed if you're a melee heavy party that relies on light magic enchants). This feels like more of the norm in X. IE: the first town is full of poisonous spiders and you need to manage that. if you just plow through mindlessly you'll get taken down by attrition.
lots of high quality puzzles to break up the combat
I can't recall a single puzzle from the game. Does that mean they're not memorable at all or does it mean I have dementia?
I dunno. Do you like puzzles?

most in depth class/race design in the entire series
M&M has always been rather human-centric, so I suppose this may be true. However, it doesn't qualify the entire series before X as being 'popamole'.

The point is that X has a little more depth in most areas, so I view it as less popamole. I greatly enjoyed every M&M game I've played and sneaking as early as possible to eeofol in 7, through tunnels full of massive behemoths, knowing that if i touch one my invisibility (and my life) ends, and also knowing that at my level of mastery, invisibility will run out if I don't move quickly, is still my fondest memory of the entire series. Popamole speaks to the simple nature of the series. It's not an insult and it's not always a bad thing.


At least you presented arguments this time. Why did I have to beat them out of you?

Welcome to RPG Fucking Codex.
Thanks. I didn't sign up to argue with people, I signed up to get feedback for my game (which is pretty popamole). But you know how it goes, you click on something and then you can't help yourself.
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
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My gripe of X is the forced third party needed to play. I hate that shit. You could probably play offline if you didn't need that damn ubisoft shit on.

Btw, does the hacked MMX work ok?
 

lukaszek

the determinator
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@crispy when reading your comments I do wonder if you played mmx at all.
races+classes combo being unique tuple stands of in the series. Combat is tactical as opposed to prebuffing and auto attack/cast spamming. With occasional loyd beacon and/or invis.
Whole areas can be locked to you if you dont include specific race in your rooster.

Yet you keep making those wild claims
The skills comment is a fair one to make, but you cannot stand by an implication that X's character creation and development on a whole surpasses anything M&M before it.
Utterly unfair and disingenuous. You know as well as I do that X has "simple" gameplay as well. The Might and Magic series has never been known for its tactical complexity.

Either you misremember mmx or rest of the series. Mind you that you keep making unfair comparrisons, like if mmx needs to beat in every asspect every other game in the series. Yet my claim is that in those areas indeed it does. As such it does reserve recognition, well at least mine. It did push series in right direction, alas it was doomed to fail even before the release
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
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A race area cock block eh? Sounds like Phantasie 1 again in a way.
 
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Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
@crispy when reading your comments I do wonder if you played mmx at all.
races+classes combo being unique tuple stands of in the series. Combat is tactical as opposed to prebuffing and auto attack/cast spamming. With occasional loyd beacon and/or invis.
Whole areas can be locked to you if you dont include specific race in your rooster.

Yet you keep making those wild claims
The skills comment is a fair one to make, but you cannot stand by an implication that X's character creation and development on a whole surpasses anything M&M before it.
Utterly unfair and disingenuous. You know as well as I do that X has "simple" gameplay as well. The Might and Magic series has never been known for its tactical complexity.

Either you misremember mmx or rest of the series. Mind you that you keep making unfair comparrisons, like if mmx needs to beat in every asspect every other game in the series. Yet my claim is that in those areas indeed it does. As such it does reserve recognition, well at least mine. It did push series in right direction, alas it was doomed to fail even before the release

I finally got around to X last year and was surprised how much strategic play there was to it, along with the depth of the devotion to the lore. Felt a little unfinished (though not nearly as unfinished as IX) but ultimately a fitting tribute.
 

Crispy

I feel... young!
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I admit that I do put on rose-colored glasses when it comes to the classics, and I do and have give(n) M&M X its due praise, but no one is going to come here to this particular website and denigrate the Might & Magic series on a whole and not have me throw my cane and dentures at them in protest.
 
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MajorMace

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@crispy when reading your comments I do wonder if you played mmx at all.
races+classes combo being unique tuple stands of in the series. Combat is tactical as opposed to prebuffing and auto attack/cast spamming. With occasional loyd beacon and/or invis.
Whole areas can be locked to you if you dont include specific race in your rooster.

Yet you keep making those wild claims
The skills comment is a fair one to make, but you cannot stand by an implication that X's character creation and development on a whole surpasses anything M&M before it.
Utterly unfair and disingenuous. You know as well as I do that X has "simple" gameplay as well. The Might and Magic series has never been known for its tactical complexity.

Either you misremember mmx or rest of the series. Mind you that you keep making unfair comparrisons, like if mmx needs to beat in every asspect every other game in the series. Yet my claim is that in those areas indeed it does. As such it does reserve recognition, well at least mine. It did push series in right direction, alas it was doomed to fail even before the release

I finally got around to X last year and was surprised how much strategic play there was to it, along with the depth of the devotion to the lore. Felt a little unfinished (though not nearly as unfinished as IX) but ultimately a fitting tribute.
You're a good man Desiderius. And M&MX indeed deserves a mention. Its budget was abysmal. The devs were inexperienced. Ubisoft clearly didn't give a shit. But Julien Pirou (pbuh) still gave it some love.

I take advantage of the situation to plug Pirou's p&p tribute to M&M : Lore & Legacy.
 

Radiane

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Dec 20, 2019
Messages
399
So, the last time I did play Darkside of Xeen, I distinctly remember that every (?) place on the surface of the worldmap had been "cleared" from monsters, and my heroes were all around level 50, but in reality they could have reached level 90 or beyond but there simply was nowhere any more sufficient money to be found (because leveling up in the training hall costs money)...

And leveling up gets progressively more expensive the higher level you achieve. But without money I just tried my luck with my level 50-party and went up to the clouds (the only place left to explore in the game i think) where my party was brutally wiped out by some cloud dragon or some similar monster. I'm sure that I could have beaten that monster had I some more level ups, but without any possibility to aqcuire any money, it was pretty much a fruitless endeavor.

I must have been pretty damn near the end of the game, but I was so frustrated that I finally erased the game from my harddrive including all save files because it was just frustrating being so stuck in the game. It has been quite a few years when I did play M&M V (i'm pretty sure it was standalone 5, without 4, so no World of Xeen), and it remains the only game I did play from the series

Does this sound familiar to any of you? Is it really possible that you can get into a situation like this, where you have no more money left to efficiently level up and are hanging back literally dozens of levels ?
 

Butter

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I recall having oodles of money, and pushing my characters up to level 90, only to then realize that I needed 2 million gold in the final WoX dungeon. I had to farm gems from the Darkside mountains and get rare items to sell so I could finish.
 
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You must have missed some dungeons, I think pre-uniting the world you should be able to get to at least level 60ish. Granted its very easy to miss dungeons when there's nothing in the log or anything. The log is great for just about everything except telling you where dungeons are and about the keys to open them.

But the main thing to know is the fountains

iiGWUBp.png


Hit the 2.5k HP well (this boosts you past your max so you can have like 3-3.5k HP), +100 resist (applies to all resists, not just elemental), +15 levels (boosts buffs and APR). There's also a +1000 SP well in darkside, and you can choose between the +100 luck (boosts your resistances... somehow, according to guides) or +50 speed on lightside (makes you go first against most enemies). Ideally you have decent base resists from permanent boosts and equipment, resists are basically the only character stat that matters once you've hit the 50 stat soft cap, aside from speed. Well, and aside from just having a busted high level, like my level 255 Ninja who buffs the party, everyone else ended around level 80-85.

The game tells you that every character can have a separate Lloyd's Beacon up in one of the hints at the tavern for a reason.

I recall having oodles of money, and pushing my characters up to level 90, only to then realize that I needed 2 million gold in the final WoX dungeon. I had to farm gems from the Darkside mountains and get rare items to sell so I could finish.

I should remember this since I literally just played it, but isn't this paying for a safe way through a bunch of traps that you otherwise have to walk through? My solution for that was to just keep recasting Lloyd's and dipping back to the 2.5k HP well every few steps. The traps in that dungeon are busted tough. If the 2M gold wasn't for that then I probably just paid it and wasn't paying attention, I wasn't really manually leveling people past level 50 until the finale since there wasn't much point. Like I said, all you get on characters aside from the one casting buffs is a very minor amount of HP.
 
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KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
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I forget if the Bank has interest every day for gold and gems? Same for MM3 maybe. I swear I was making a killing in the bank unless I am yhinking of another game.

Lesseee
Banking in Might and Magic III said:
1) How exactly does interest at the bank work?

2) I see that the hireling The Raven is 134 years old! I know that as characters age they get penalties. Is it the same with hirelings? How does aging work for them?

Thanks in advance for any input on these question!
1. A week is 10 days. On the first day of each week, at 5 AM, your bank account funds increase by 1%. (Note that there are only 10 weeks in a year, so this amounts to 10% interest compounded weekly.) Both gold and gems are increased. This probably won't be an issue if you play normally, but if your bank account passes 2 billion, your bank account may overflow and become negative or small. Shops also stock new inventory at this time.

2. Aging works the same way it does for your characters. The penalties are manageable: at 101, the penalty is only -20 to physical stats. At 201, the penalty increases to 50. (Note that this is a sudden increase.) Strength, Speed, Endurance, and Accuracy go down. Intelligence and Personality actually increase. Death from old age can only happen if one of your stats is 0 or less (but can happen regardless of age if, for example, poison or insanity lowered a stat to 0).

3, You didn't mention it, but World of Xeen works the same way, as does Swords of Xeen.

Banking in Worlds of Xeen said:
My questions are:
-What is the effect of aging?
-Can I actually die from old age?
-If some of my party dies from old age can I just recruit other, younger, characters and keep the money I have in the bank?
-Has anyone ever done this and can advise on the best way to go about it?
Thanks!

Answers:
Excessive age will begin to add a penalty to some stats, eventually characters will die of "old age" (actually they die because their endurance (and therefore their HP) reaches 0, so they can't be resurrected because they have no HP), and yes, you can replace them as they get old.
Best way to do it is to complete Vertigo, clearing out all the slimes and bugs, level up a couple times, then tell the mirror "Rivercity" to go straight there. If you don't clear Vertigo and level up, you might have some difficulty with the beggars. Once in Rivercity, go to the work place, work for a year, back to the bank, put it in, repeat. Eventually the interest is higher than the money you're making so putting it in the bank isn't as important as just wasting time really fast.
DO NOT GO ABOVE 4 billion! You can have 4 billion(ish) gold in the bank, and another 4 billion in hand. If you add more, it will wrap around to 0 and all that time will be wasted. I suggest stopping at about 3 billion in both hand and bank.
Once you've got your 6 billion combined or your characters are 60 years old, just go to the inn and replace them. They all start at level 1, so buy some good weapons and then tell the mirror "Warzone" so you can fight a few low level monsters to replace the ones you defeated with the first group. Should add a few days, but you need the extra experience.
And then you'll never be wanting for money again, and no other ill effects will happen. The story proceeds as normal and no one else has aged, even though it's now 50 or 60 years later.
There are bits of unused code that I've come across which suggest that there was supposed to be a time limit, but it's incomplete so the idea was probably scrapped.

------
When I needed cash for training at the end of Xeen, here's what I did.
First, make sure you have at least one merchant to handle buying and selling (I train all of my characters as merchants anyway), and put most of your gold in the bank - it earns interest.
1) Teleport to each town and buy up any expensive nonmagical armor (i.e. no prefix or suffix), namely plate mail and plate armor.
2) Use the Enchant Item spell to enchant the armor, then resell it for profit. If you want to speed things up, save your game first, and reload until you get pricy results like obsidian and diamond (this also lets you cut out unfavorable results like wood or leather).
3) Bank your profits from step 2, then visit the taskmaster and work for a week. Afterwards, you'll find that all the shops have restocked and you've earned some interest on your banked gold.
Repeat steps 1-3 as long as you like. Keep as much of your gold in the bank as possible to maximize your earned interest. I was able to rack up enough cash to fully train my characters in just a couple of game years. I haven't tried the other methods posted - I was at the end of the game, after all - but this one worked very well for me.
 

Mauman

Scholar
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Messages
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I remember becoming completely broke at the end of xeen whilst taking on the bonus dungeon.

I did NOT care for figuring out how to fix the problem and thus did not become an ultimate goober.

Besides, eventually having all of my gear broken after every other fight just got a bit thin.
 

Rincewind

Magister
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Codex+ Now Streaming!
Just came to my attention that the DOS version of M&M 2 does support tweaked skin colours in MCGA/VGA mode. It's still the same EGA graphics, but purple and pink get replaced by light-brown skin tones. You need version 1.01 of the game for this to work.

Somewhat confusingly, this only applies to in-game content. In the intro sequence the guy in the tree is still purple, and so is the hand when rolling a custom character.

Of course, the Amiga and MacOS versions are preferable and look way better +M

Relevant config:
[dosbox]
machine = mcga

[autoexec]
mount c c
c:
loadfix mm2 m

EGA mode

WZPqyxu.png


MCGA/VGA mode

(Yes, I'm taking the liberty of using a single-scaline/15kHz shader here too as this is essentially still EGA graphics, although MCGA introduced line-doubling of earlier graphics modes even before VGA)

pwn69Zr.png
 

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