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The New DOOM Thread (2016)

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Nobody here has yet played the game and everyone shits on it. You are all shitty angry teenagers raging against the weather.
I don't give a damn about this new Doom, maybe it will be total shit, but you, gentlemen, are sometimes painful to read. I just ask myself sometimes: what am I doing reading this diarrhea from angsty teenage posers?
Well back to the weaboo forum for me, where people actually discuss game mechanics in depth.
Good day bros.
 

Blaine

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I played Duke Nukem 3D, Doom, Quake, and Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold (fantastic game) pretty extensively back in the day. I picked Blake Stone up from a drug store bargain bin and ended up playing the shit out of it.

Here's an example of its level design (one floor of one level):

7f9f6abfb0.png


Fucking amazing. Not the greatest level design of all time, but damned fun finding all the necessary keycards, the secrets, etc.
 

Siel

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Honestly, game might be fun for a few hours. But 60 bucks is way too high for a 10 hours long single player game with no modding tools. Will surely wait for sales.
 

shihonage

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Nobody here has yet played the game and everyone shits on it. You are all shitty angry teenagers raging against the weather.
I don't give a damn about this new Doom, maybe it will be total shit, but you, gentlemen, are sometimes painful to read. I just ask myself sometimes: what am I doing reading this diarrhea from angsty teenage posers?
Well back to the weaboo forum for me, where people actually discuss game mechanics in depth.
Good day bros.

You belong to the curious category of people who lack the ability to derive conclusions from continuous gameplay footage. To each their own, of course, but if I were you, I wouldn't be flaunting my inferior cognitive abilities with such abandon.
 

tormund

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Nobody here has yet played the game and everyone shits on it. You are all shitty angry teenagers raging against the weather.
I don't give a damn about this new Doom, maybe it will be total shit, but you, gentlemen, are sometimes painful to read. I just ask myself sometimes: what am I doing reading this diarrhea from angsty teenage posers?
Well back to the weaboo forum for me, where people actually discuss game mechanics in depth.
Good day bros.
Except people were discussing mechanics and game design all the time in this thread, and were explaining in detail what they dislike about what was shown in various promos (craploads of which have been released so far). We have bunch of people around who play classic shooters on regular basis an generally know their shit as far as game design goes, not to mention that we have some who mod/map for some of those games.

But you are free to jump in with your cheap crap that works only on GAF, even if I never saw you write anything about this or any related game before. I'm sure it makes you feel better about yourself.
One thing I like about this forum is that comments like yours are rare, and when they happed they are dealt with accordingly by other users.
 

sexbad?

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I will stream this in 12-13 hours after I'm done with work for the day (meaning 7-8PM EST). So far I've only played the first level, and I guess it's okay.
 

Blaine

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You could be right, I never "got" Doom in the first place.

Now look, I'm a bit on your side here in terms of taking the initial "it's shit" rage with a grain of salt, but if you never "got" Doom in the first place, why are you... but....

Well, never mind. I played Doom a fair bit, but it's obvious from shihonage's avatar (among other things) that he's a big Doom fan. However, close adherence to the original Doom isn't necessarily the only thing I care about in this case.

shihonage The gameplay videos I've seen seem to show tight and fast movement and controls to me (unlike modern military-style trudging around slowly and laboriously while taking scripted cover), the difficulty certainly doesn't seem to be casual-tier from what I've seen (even if it doesn't suit the style of the original Doom), and the level design I've seen doesn't seem obviously linear and shitty.

If someone can point me to the stream or footage where a map of the levels is shown, that'll be good. I'm going to look for one now. I just forgot this even existed until three days ago and hadn't been following it.
 
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I was just reading the thread and, while I'm a total scrub when it comes to Doom and its mods, it just read too much like Lyric Suite bashing Mad Max Fury Road while absolutely refusing to watch it (see dedicated thread) . Just saying.
 

bylam

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I tend to like the id shooters because they have pretty solid gun mechanics - everyone hated Rage but at least I felt like the AI did something more than the standard popamole since HL and the gun feel was responsive with satisfying effects.
So that said, I bought the new Doom.
I did the following things on start - turned off all the glory kill BS (at least the parts that were allowed), turned on simple crosshairs and inverted the mouse (fuck you non invert heathens)

After about 1hr of playing:

- Story bits are less intrusive than Doom 3, so it is better in that respect.
- It is fast and the shooting feels good. I am ignoring the Glory Kill stuff, which might make me miss out on power ups, but there seem to be plenty scattered around the levels.
- Levels so far have a nice variety of tight corridors and outdoor arenas. So far it works, though it has been very linear thus far.
- Weapon upgrades - I mean they exist, and I have gotten one - and never used it.
- I might be gimping myself by ignoring the Glory Kills - I seem to run out of ammo during combat a lot.
 

Infinitron

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/05/13/doom-pc-review/

First Impressions: DOOM
Alec Meer on May 13th, 2016 at 11:45 am.

doomi1.jpg


Doom 4 DOOM [official site] is out in most places as of this morning, but I managed to squeeze in a couple of hours of Bethesda’s demon-botherer last night by catching a private jet to New Zealand, where it had launched a little earlier. Naturally, I flew straight home afterwards to write the following thoughts.

It’s early doors of course, so anything I say below may well become incorrect depending on how things shake out later on. I also haven’t dabbled in multiplayer yet, but will go hang my hide out for an online beating a little later today.

The overriding thought I’d had while playing DOOM is “this is a very pointed “screw you” to Doom 3.” Its straight to business attitude and snarling aggression – Doomguy even punches away upgrade terminals after using them – speak to an absolute determination to waste no time. The gloomy industrial environments and colourlessly fleshy enemies almost trick me into thinking I am playing Doom 3, but every time I start cautiously creeping along I pay for it: this is absolutely a game about movement.

Though every modern shooter owes a debt to the original Doom, so few took its speed: that slip-slidey momentum that makes a game which seemed pacey and menacing at the time now feel like riding a banana skin along a rollercoaster track. DOOM does feel like that, which brought an immediate grin to my suspicious face, but it doesn’t stop short at retro-evocation.

doomi2.jpg


DOOM’s smartest trick (that I’ve seen so far) is to think about what that speed can mean, beyond navigation and strafing, then run with it. What I’ve played has been about near-constant forward momentum: mantling rapidly to higher places with one tap on the spacebar at the end of a jump, and this satisfying one-two beat of shoot then punch an enemy; by the time the shot lands, my run has taken me right up to the thing’s face, so the punch can land too. It feels damn good, even though I’ve done it hundreds of times now.

A ‘Glory Kill’ system which doles out bonus health when a sufficiently wounded enemy is meleed creates a punding sense of flow: dodge, shoot, dodge, shoot, thump, repeat. This is a game with a beat. It feels good. Speed is everything, but it doesn’t feel frenzied so much as it does rhythmic.

The weapons feel tight: you get the shotgun almost right away, and it’s a good one, with both punch and reasonable range. The pistol’s there as an infinite ammo backup capable of headshot insta-kills against weaker foes, while the chainsaw is carefully fuel-limited because it is gloriously lethal. The only other gun I’ve found so far is the Heavy Assault Rifle, and that feels a bit off: somehow too lightweight, not quite as much sense of destruction. I haven’t found a good reason to use it over the shotgun. But it can be upgraded, so perhaps it’ll come into its own later. There’s always the shotgun, anyway: I have no problem whatsoever with a DOOM played with a shotgun throughout, I assure you.

doomi3.jpg


But if the merry dance of combat is pushing my buttons, I’m feeling less keen on the aesthetics. While there’s been a clear attempt to include both the dark mechanical look that characterised post-Quake id games and the red airlessness of a Mars setting, it winds up looking pretty bland.

Dim green lights throughout hint at the route to take (though there’s a compass arrow at the top of the screen too), and I wonder if they’re there not simply to make navigation easier for the inattentive, but rather because otherwise the look of levels is so homogeneous that we can’t subconsciously absorb where all the exits are and what’s somewhere we’ve already been, as we do in most other shooters.

I felt a sort of low level confusion about where to go, because everything I’ve seen looks so samey. I even got hit by a cargo train a few times, purely because it was so hard to notice: just another gloomy piece of metal. I’m at a loss for why DOOM would so lovingly revisit Doom’s speed, but not its vibrancy.

doomi4.jpg


Enemies have a similar issue: I’ve met five kinds of monster so far, and the only one which looks meaningfully different is the one that carries a brightly-coloured energy shield. Without that, he’d look the same as the rest: i.e. brownish and hunched. It really doesn’t take long to learn the silhouettes and the movement, so I have no issue whatsoever distinguishing between my foes, but again I’m perplexed as to why Doom’s memorably distinctive bestiary has been devolved into a few variants of Mr Hanky. It’s a colour problem not a model problem though – I’m looking forwards to the inevitable graphics mods which amp up the colour palette, put it that way.

Unfortunately the presentation of the environment has presented a few slow-downs to progress, especially now the levels are growing a little larger, but even if I’m occasionally not sure where the next exit is, a quickly-learned rule of thumb is that if you’re not fighting, you’re in the wrong place. It’s all go all the time, bar a smattering of brief, glowering cutscenes starring completely forgettable characters with silly voices.

I had a sense that the game almost regretted including even those, but felt it had to: I could feel its impatience to get on with things, and its silent, punchy protagonist is very much the avatar of that. He wants to get back to the blasting. Finally, a shooter hero I can truly empathise with.

doomi5.jpg


If this had been a conventionally-paced game that looked this homogeneous, I’d be thinking it was a total damp squib, but the forward momentum and the rhythm means that, so far, it’s getting away with it. Hell, even the weapon upgrade system plays into the urgency: tech points are gained by completing challenges as you play, such as kill two guys with one shot, and then the pay-off isn’t just a bit more ammo but a significant extra ability such as explosive shotgun shells. I imagine that later branches on their tech trees will be less dramatic, but so far it plays into that Everything Big All The Time Ethos.

By God it needs more colour, though. Getting to any new place has not been interesting. Let’s hope that later levels change up the look some more.

DOOM is out now. We didn’t receive pre-release code, but a full review will follow as soon as possible.
 

DosBuster

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- I might be gimping myself by ignoring the Glory Kills - I seem to run out of ammo during combat a lot.
Kinda, ammo is scarce so they do expect you to use the glory kill system as a way to conserve ammo but later on it changes to a point where you can play either way and still have ammo.
 

shihonage

Second Variety Games
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Even if you've played through an area before, even if you know where all the demons are, you will still be jolted because Id's craftsmen did such a careful job orchestrating your claustrophobia. Yes, we may be a little jaded on scripted sequences guiding the action, but this three-ring circus of adrenaline and fear elevates gaming as an art form and puts it on par with Hollywood. All the event triggers are strategically placed and add that extra bit of fear just when you thought you were safe.

It is a masterpiece of the art form - staying true to the frantic legacy of the Doom series, while ambitiously reaching new heights and bashing down the doors of the next generation of PC shooter. The bar is raised. Let's see someone else climb over it.

Just a reminder of what some Doom 3 reviews were like.
 

shihonage

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Remarkable.

He talks about authenticity to Doom soundtrack.
First rendition sounds very similar to Doom soundtrack.
Then he gets a "9-string guitar" and makes it into a completely unrecognizeable cacophony of noise.

From the looks of the game, this talentless vermin is a solid representative of the rest of the D44M development crew.
 

skacky

3D Realms
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I'm not too fond of how the difficulty scales. In Doom 1 and 2 you'd get a lot more monsters, sometimes less items, and so forth. Here, it seems the only thing that changes is the damage enemies inflict. The most annoying thing about the game is that the higher the difficulty is, the more you have to rely on glory kills to replenish your health since health packs are few and far between and the game is clearly tailored towards piñata items (which don't make any sense, even in Doom). I find these glory kills very boring and tiresome after a while, and I'm just watching, not playing. Also, staggering enemies make them rather useless, you're not under constant attack if you get some to be stunned.
 

Baron Dupek

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Didn't watched videos but all these glory kills and not a single kick button available? Like the one in Duke Nukem or FEAR?

he [TB] ended up singing praises to that Warhammer Space Marine TPS game, because basically it had a chainsaw, but otherwise it was no different from the Modern Military Shooter that he detests, i.e. it had a highly linear design.

Nobody praised that game for good portrait of female character? This one

Or TB is not the guy who dance what sjw/femnazis sing him?
 

sexbad?

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Didn't watched videos but all these glory kills and not a single kick button available? Like the one in Duke Nukem or FEAR?

he [TB] ended up singing praises to that Warhammer Space Marine TPS game, because basically it had a chainsaw, but otherwise it was no different from the Modern Military Shooter that he detests, i.e. it had a highly linear design.

Nobody praised that game for good portrait of female character? This one

Or TB is not the guy who dance what sjw/femnazis sing him?
I recall reading an article a long time ago about how that one lady should be a feminist icon in gaming or something.

Anyway, you do have a regular melee attack where you just hit the enemy with the butt of your gun. Once the enemy is staggered, you press the same key for an execution.
 

Infinitron

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-05-13-the-doom-campaign-is-actually-pretty-good


The Doom campaign is actually pretty good
Thoughts on the wonky but hectic and surprisingly subtle story mode.

jpg


Since we've only just received Doom review code, we're going to have a full review up next week. In the meantime, here are some early impressions of the campaign.

Remember the original Doom's pistol? It's the crappy little pea-shooter you fall back on when you've no other option, the spindly popgun you switch to when you're saving the beefier weapons for more deserving prey. Well, nowadays they call the pistol "the Standard UAC Energy-Matter-Gel Sidearm", and it is a product of Serious Science. See, there's a "gravity gear dynamo" in the stock which "charges a capacitor" as the "operator" (that's you) moves around. When you pull the trigger, the capacitor "compresses up to four megawatts of Argent Energy into a hardened plasma gel and launches the slug at high velocity".

Said gel slug "has the same impact properties of conventional ammunition, making the weapon act and feel like a standard ballistic firearm". Just like a pistol, then, but smarter. But hold on a moment there, Professor. In keeping with Newton, won't compressing that quantity of energy so quickly lead to overheating? My dear fellow, far from it. The Standard UAC Energy-Matter-Gel Sidearm "is constructed of thermally diffusive metal alloys which allow it to discharge rapidly and repeatedly". Walk with me, if you will, while I expound upon the particulars. Or, you could just shoot a few demons in the head with it. Up to you.

jpg

You don't need to reload. Weapons can be fired till all ammunition is spent, exactly as god/Romero intended.

As you've hopefully guessed, the new Doom is a game with its heart in two places. On the one hand, it aims to restore something of the original Doom's gorgeously treacherous level design and darting combat flow. On the other, it wants to tick all the boxes associated with a modern story-heavy shooter campaign in the Bioshock vein - holographic echoes of now-butchered people fiddling around with ancient artefacts, upgradeable gear, weapon select wheels and a lore database intent on sapping all enthusiasm for the gorgeous weapons by explaining them to death. Consider the Heavy Assault Rifle, which "although recently superseded by the Plasma Rifle as the UAC's standard issue weapon, is still in widespread use due to its dependable mechanical firing mechanism". Do try to bear that in mind next time you shred a Cacodemon with the thing.

The good news is that on the strength of a few hours' play - and providing you turn a blind eye to any pop-up codex notifications - the Doom of 2016 feels like it might actually reconcile these approaches without bursting into flames. Id has evidently thought very hard, if not always sensibly, about where latter-day design trends do and don't agree with Doom's DNA. Case in point, the "intro". Going by the lumps of backstory on the loading screen, I was half-expecting a cosy video call from Wifey back on Earth and some sort of new employee orientation sequence. What actually happens is that you wake up on an operating table, rip away your restraints and pulp a zombie's head with your bare hands, all inside of about 10 seconds. It turns out this is exactly as much orientation as you need in a game about murdering demons on Mars.

jpg

'Hey, you've got something stuck in you. Let me get it. Oh sorry, was that your arm?'

Perhaps the most unjust thing you can say of the original Doom is that it's a shooter. Sure, there are rocket launchers and they make Hell Barons go splat pretty good, but the guns aren't really the point. The core components of the 1993 game's appeal are its maps, or rather, dungeons - shifting Stygian warrens of flesh and bulkhead, in which no chamber is without its fair share of false walls, trick floors, mysterious switches, teleportation pads and tantalisingly out-of-reach power-ups.

The 2016 version clearly gets this, though it has yet to really surprise me. While compact by current genre standards, the first few campaign maps are agreeably knotty, with all sorts of secrets visible on walkways or dropped invitingly behind malfunctioning doors. Probe these nooks and crannies and you'll earn upgrade points for your guns - each weapon offers a choice of alternate fires, such as the shotgun's hold-to-charge grenade launcher. More importantly, you'll come away with the sense that the environments are there to savour, rather than conquer. There aren't nearly enough moving parts for my tastes, and the campaign seems over-reliant on arena battles where the inevitable base AI imposes a lockdown till you've slaughtered all the wildlife. But it's a promising start - and if there are too many arenas, I can't knock how how id Software has overhauled the combat itself.

Doom's Marine has always been a nimble beast, zipping past corridor mouths to spew missiles at distant, malignant pixels, but in the past he was limited to the horizontal plane. Nowadays you can jump and climb, and the arena sections are built around this capacity for acrobatics, with loads of crates, pipes and platforms to slide onto and bounce between as you flee the wrath of the underworld.

jpg

Your Marine suit - an ancient relic, apparently - can be upgraded too. It's the usual stuff - more resistance to grenade damage, for example.

The demons have more spring in their step, too. In particular, I adore the newly hyperactive Imp - no longer a sort of clay sausage-man tossing fireballs from an alcove, but a vicious little insect that's forever scrambling up walls or wriggling under shotgun blasts to swipe at your guts. Another early standout is the possessed sentry, a former human elite who rocks a handheld energy shield and shotgun - distressing indeed when you're backed into a corner. In general, there's a nice sense of layering to the encounter design, with bog-standard zombies who shamble towards you slowly but steadily while you're preoccupied with more eye-catching threats.

The game's "Glory Kills" melee execution system has attracted the ire of purists - this lets you polish off a weakened, flashing foe in spectacular style with a single button press, showering you in Stimpacks to boot. It certainly sounds like a banal cosmetic flourish, but actually serves a function similar to Bloodborne's rallying, whereby you'll often need to risk close quarters combat if you want to heal up. There's a similar touch of risk-and-reward to managing ammo reserves - you can masticate opponents with a chainsaw to refill your weapons, which again entails putting yourself in harm's way. I'm hoping later levels will really force me to dig into these systems, in addition to each weapon's alternate fire and the environment.

The trick to rebooting a great video game series is to rediscover its context. Bringing back specific mechanics or systems is pointless in itself, like applying lipstick and blusher to rotten flesh; instead, designers must treat on the old title in broader terms, looking at what made it special for the era and seeking to replicate those emotions, that sensibility, with today's tools and in today's climate. I'm not sure the new Doom has managed this - any shooter that turns a pistol into a potted academic treatise is missing a few screws - but it's definitely trying. It's not just Doom-as-was with refreshed visuals, or a slick, generic, modern-age contender with some throwback cannons. And for that, I'm going to take a risk ahead of our full review and say it might be worth your time. Be sure to steer clear of those codex notifications.
 

Blaine

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Well, I've managed to locate one picture of the in-game map. This is the first mission map after the tutorial. The blue segment is the player's current room and there are multiple levels:

hiQgQXx.jpg


For comparison, first mission map of Doom (others here):

e1m1.gif
 

Belegarsson

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
In my opinion they should have put a small restriction on those glory kills, for example you can only do it when you have under 50hp, that would make glory kill less repetitive and a bit more meaningful as a quick lifesaver.
 

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