The New DOOM Thread (2016)

[skacky]

I wasn't lying when I said the layouts are that good. Just look at Blaine's pic.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

That map is actually something you normally don't see these days. One may still say it's linear, it's cosmectic and so on, but it is going towards an incline direction.

 

[J_C]

That map is actually something you normally don't see these days. One may still say it's linear, it's cosmectic and so on, but is going towards an incline direction.

Movement is also very fast, you can jump, there are no unexpected invisible walls. This game is looking to be the anti-thesis of modern FPSs. Good job on ID so far.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

One thing I'd like to know is if you can "backtrack" or if the sections close behind you. from the map, you can't actually see the interconnections beteween between floors.

 

[Blaine]

I'm being highly entertained by the full Polygon video.

>enemy is behind you
>punches you in the back
>shoot the air in front of you

>charge pistol
>carefully aim at large, slowly-moving target
>miss

>enemy is two inches away
>shoot to the right of him
>shoot above his head
>fuck it, melee attack

One thing I'd like to know is if you can "backtrack" or if the sections close behind you. from the map, you can't actually see the interconnections beteween between floors.

You can backtrack, and apparently it's required for some secrets.

Would be a bit odd if you couldn't, are you think of the "big box room" shooters like... what was it, Painkiller? Where you move from one box to the next clearing them, and they close off as you go along? I fucking HATE that type of shooter.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Perhaps the most unjust thing you can say of the original Doom is that it's a shooter. Sure, there are rocket launchers and they make Hell Barons go splat pretty good, but the guns aren't really the point. The core components of the 1993 game's appeal are its maps, or rather, dungeons - shifting Stygian warrens of flesh and bulkhead, in which no chamber is without its fair share of false walls, trick floors, mysterious switches, teleportation pads and tantalisingly out-of-reach power-ups.

Perhaps the most unjust thing you can say of the original Doom is that it's a shooter.

most unjust thing

it's a shooter

 

[Blaine]

Well to be fair, interesting and complex level layouts are a very important part of single-player shooters for me.

But yes, Eurogamer are a wagonload of fucktards, just like the entire rest of the gaming media.

 

[sexbad?]

Well, I've managed to locate one picture of the in-game map. This is the first mission map after the tutorial. The blue segment is the player's current room and there are multiple levels:

For comparison, first mission map of Doom (others here):

At best that looks like a Doom 3 level. The geometry is a bit varied, but from what I can tell it is still mostly corridors connected linearly. I've also already experienced the stupid thing where you slowly open a door that shuts and locks automatically behind you, so I don't expect much free flowing in many directions later on.

 

[Durandal]

I wasn't lying when I said the layouts are that good. Just look at Blaine's pic.

You'd have a point, if most of the level wasn't devoid of things to shoot. If anything, it's wasted potential when most of the shooting happens in killboxes with some elevated platforms to double-jump on instead of 80% of the level.
Seriously, I might've overlooked the weapon upgrades and Glory Kills if the level designers learned a thing or two about enemy placement and would fuck off with the umpteenth empty corridor already. Don't praise how great your flow is if you keep wasting my time with exploring samey-looking enviroments for a bunch of hidden armor bonuses. Keep your shit compact.

 

[Blaine]

sexbad? Yes, it's best when "rooms" or "segments" connect to multiple other segments in various directions, which in turn connect to multiple other segments in various directions, with numerous cross-floor connections (elevators) scattered throughout, segment exits that exit several different ways, some one-way connections (drop-downs, for example), drop-downs where you can land on multiple floors, etc. Perhaps there's a certain room on the third floor you can only reach by going a certain way through the first floor, through the second floor, or through both the first and second floors.

The more multi-directional interconnections there are between segments and levels, the more complex and interesting the level design.

Believe me, I know. I love spaghetti bowl level design.

 

[Durandal]

sexbad? Yes, it's best when "rooms" or "segments" connect to multiple other segments in various directions, which in turn connect to multiple other segments in various directions, with numerous cross-floor connections (elevators) scattered throughout, segment exits that exit several different ways, some one-way connections (drop-downs, for example), drop-downs where you can land on multiple floors, etc. Perhaps there's a certain room on the third floor you can only reach by going a certain way through the first floor, through the second floor, or through both the first and second floors.

The more multi-directional interconnections there are between segments and levels, the more complex and interesting the level design.

Believe me, I know. I love spaghetti bowl level design.

Your favourite game is Descent 2?

 

[Blaine]

Descent 2 is p. gud.

 

[skacky]

At best that looks like a Doom 3 level. The geometry is a bit varied, but from what I can tell it is still mostly corridors connected linearly. I've also already experienced the stupid thing where you slowly open a door that shuts and locks automatically behind you, so I don't expect much free flowing in many directions later on.

It looks like corridors on the automap, but that's also how they display walkways and stuff in huge rooms on the automap. Some areas lock behind you until you've killed a certain amount of monsters though, that is correct.

 

[sexbad?]

sexbad? Yes, it's best when "rooms" or "segments" connect to multiple other segments in various directions, which in turn connect to multiple other segments in various directions, with numerous cross-floor connections (elevators) scattered throughout, segment exits that exit several different ways, some one-way connections (drop-downs, for example), drop-downs where you can land on multiple floors, etc. Perhaps there's a certain room on the third floor you can only reach by going a certain way through the first floor, through the second floor, or through both the first and second floors.

The more multi-directional interconnections there are between segments and levels, the more complex and interesting the level design.

Believe me, I know. I love spaghetti bowl level design.

Nice strawman, retard. That's not what I want, and that's not what the original Dooms had. They had a good, free-flowing mixture of small and large areas choc full of well designed action. This looks so far like segmented off Doom 3 corridors with a Doom 3 amount of monsters connecting a series of maybe nice challenge rooms.

 

[Excidium II]

It might look like some big level design but it's just empty corridors leading to rooms with item pickups, gear upgrade and collectibles. The main progression is entering locked down arenas, clearing it and moving on.

 

[Blaine]

Nice strawman, retard. That's not what I want, and that's not what the original Dooms had. They had a good, free-flowing mixture of small and large areas choc full of well designed action. This looks so far like segmented off Doom 3 corridors with a Doom 3 amount of monsters connecting a series of maybe nice challenge rooms.

Are you illiterate? It wasn't a strawman, you dumb faggot. I wasn't speaking for you; I was responding to your comment about linear corridors and offering my own opinion of good level design.

Don't like it? Go fuck yourself.

 

[Excidium II]

It's just bioshock school of level design.

 

[Baron Dupek]

I recall reading an article a long time ago about how that one lady should be a feminist icon in gaming or something.
Anyway, you do have a regular melee attack where you just hit the enemy with the butt of your gun. Once the enemy is staggered, you press the same key for an execution.

IIRC it was written by Cliff Bleszynski, no less.

Thanks for the clarification, I find it strange that game focused on finishers have no kick button (ironically - Brutal Doom does have one, or was it Project Brutality?).

 

[skacky]

Also, re: looks like a Doom 3 level. Have you played Doom 3 recently? The levels in that game were as small, as linear and as narrow as they come, with little to no exploration. They gave Half-Life 2's levels a run for their money. Doom 4 has the balls to provide big interconnected levels, sadly full of arenas, in a world of dreary AAA FPS titles filled with dull linear maps so the average dumbfuck gamer cannot get lost. No, I'll take Doom 4's sprawling levels over Doom 3's tiny linear levels any day of the week. The focus on arenas is bothersome but other than that I think Doom 4's levels are definitely going in the right direction and are clearly the game's strongest aspect. I think arenas are pretty cool when used sporadically, hell I use some myself, but Doom 4 just has too many of them, yes.

The main issue are the game's mechanics that undermine the level design's qualities, mostly the piñata system. There's little to no point in scouring maps to get health (something TB says in his video and his conclusion I hugely disagree with). In older Doom games you'd find Soulspheres, armor, weapons and stuff; here's it's mostly collectibles. Were the piñata system not there at all these secrets would be filled with good ol' items. I get the idea of always staying in battle and it sounds nice on paper, but this system was not the right choice because of that. It's like you have two different game designs clashing here. That and monsters are not used to their maximum potential, even if they do move around pretty quickly to catch the player which something I was pleasantly surprised to see.

 

[Excidium II]

Doom 4 has the balls to provide big interconnected levels

With a quest compass. Such balls.

 

[Blaine]

I find it amusing that there's a battery of self-appointed Doom authorities in this thread, when practically everyone over the age of thirty on the Codex played the original Doom, Doom II, etc. Hell, I've had Doom II on Steam since 2008 and have played around with plenty of source ports and WADs. No idea where a lot of my original disks ended up.

Get over yourselves. Doom purists on the Codex, a cult I wasn't aware existed until... well, just now, I guess.

 

[Baron Dupek]

 

[Excidium II]

I find it amusing that there's a battery of self-appointed Doom authorities in this thread, when practically everyone over the age of thirty on the Codex played the original Doom, Doom II, etc. Hell, I've had Doom II on Steam since 2008 and have played around with plenty of source ports and WADs. No idea where a lot of my original disks ended up.

Get over yourselves. Doom purists on the Codex, a cult I wasn't aware existed until... well, just now, I guess.

Don't you have better things to do than defend the honor of a bethesda game?

 

[skacky]

Doom 4 has the balls to provide big interconnected levels

With a quest compass. Such balls.

Of course a quest compass in a Doom game is a fucking sin, but that's not the level designer's fault if the game designers are stupid.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Doom 4 has the balls to provide big interconnected levels

With a quest compass. Such balls.

Quest compass in a game like this is a godsend. It helps you avoid that one "plot" door that will immediately close behind you when you have more than 1 corridor to check.