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The Outer Worlds: Spacer's Choice Edition - Obsidian's first-person sci-fi RPG set in a corporate space colony

IHaveHugeNick

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Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,552
And yet every Eurojank shovelware is praised around here as long as it stays close enough to BG or Fallout templates from 25 years ago.

Honestly you just sound jelaous that these games made in Europe are well liked.

No, I'm mildly amused at internal inconsistency of posters who in one thread are champions of RPG innovation while in the other thread they furiously jerk off to "Fallout except with Russians".
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
But even if I go full liberal and pretend that women can successfully write for a male audience (which is not impossible, I just consider it very rare), can they at least try to hire competent ones that can appeal to said audience?

One of my favorite fantasy adventure romp authors is a woman (Martha Wells), so there are definitely women out there able to write good adventure stories.

The problem is, I think, also with the educational background of the particular women (and soymen) who get hired into game writing positions. They all went through some kind of creative writing courses at university, which are usually very liberal/hard left, and which are all about pretentiousness and/or "making a point" with your writing. Those courses don't usually teach you how to write a compelling pulp fantasy narrative.
 

Deleted Member 22431

Guest
I meant it's good for him, not necessarily for us. And yes, the fact he is criminally underutilized for his writing talent and criminally overused for his persona and popularity is what I'm criticizing.
Guys, for the last time. This writing thing separated from game design is a myth. Avellone did a good job in PS:T because he was a creative lead and a designer. There is no such thing as a writer separated from game design. We need good game designers. What do you think Avellone doesn't get the opportunity to be a lead designer? Because they pigeonholed him in this "best writer of all time" nonsense. Avellone is a talented game designer. He needs to design games. Writing talent here is just another name for design talent.
 
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Deleted Member 22431

Guest
As they should. Dead Money is the best part of New Vegas.

Yeah , the DLCs are great, but i was talking about the main game. People praise Avellone for the writting of the main game too when was actually Gonzalez.
Yes, because of a personality cult. Now that I think about it, I don't think I ever read one single interview of this guy. But hey, Sawyer took photos of the desert and Avellone wrote a story!
 

Deleted Member 22431

Guest
No, I'm mildly amused at internal inconsistency of posters who in one thread are champions of RPG innovation while in the other thread they furiously jerk off to "Fallout except with Russians".
There is no incoherence at all. You can make good contributions without being revolutionary, and you can be heavily influenced by a game without indulging in cargo cult. If the developer is inspired enough and competent, he will do his own thing, but if he is a hack, he will try to imitate a formula for whatever reason without proper understanding of what he is doing.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,718
Pathfinder: Wrath
But even if I go full liberal and pretend that women can successfully write for a male audience (which is not impossible, I just consider it very rare), can they at least try to hire competent ones that can appeal to said audience?

One of my favorite fantasy adventure romp authors is a woman (Martha Wells), so there are definitely women out there able to write good adventure stories.

The problem is, I think, also with the educational background of the particular women (and soymen) who get hired into game writing positions. They all went through some kind of creative writing courses at university, which are usually very liberal/hard left, and which are all about pretentiousness and/or "making a point" with your writing. Those courses don't usually teach you how to write a compelling pulp fantasy narrative.

Here's the thing with that. I don't know if anyone is familiar with one William W. Johnstone. He was an author of mostly hyper-masculine fiction that would appeal to the usual suspects who like that kind of thing. He died in 2004, but books under his name continued to be published and are still being published, yet his usual readers didn't even realize he died and that his niece took over his name and wrote the other books. So it's not so much what gender writes these books so much as the ideals, philosophy and preconceptions of the world appeal to the readership. I.e. it's not about reading about other people, their struggles and experiencing another point of view, it's about staying in your echo chamber and having your conceptions "confirmed". This is making a point, but a point you like, while everything else is soymen (soy isn't bad for men) and women taking over and trying their best to not appeal to a "male audience".

Don't get me wrong, Nubsidian has shit writers, but the problem lies elsewhere.
 

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,552
But even if I go full liberal and pretend that women can successfully write for a male audience (which is not impossible, I just consider it very rare), can they at least try to hire competent ones that can appeal to said audience?

One of my favorite fantasy adventure romp authors is a woman (Martha Wells), so there are definitely women out there able to write good adventure stories.

The problem is, I think, also with the educational background of the particular women (and soymen) who get hired into game writing positions. They all went through some kind of creative writing courses at university, which are usually very liberal/hard left, and which are all about pretentiousness and/or "making a point" with your writing. Those courses don't usually teach you how to write a compelling pulp fantasy narrative.

Here's the thing with that. I don't know if anyone is familiar with one William W. Johnstone. He was an author of mostly hyper-masculine fiction that would appeal to the usual suspects who like that kind of thing. He died in 2004, but books under his name continued to be published and are still being published, yet his usual readers didn't even realize he died and that his niece took over his name and wrote the other books. So it's not so much what gender writes these books so much as the ideals, philosophy and preconceptions of the world appeal to the readership. I.e. it's not about reading about other people, their struggles and experiencing another point of view, it's about staying in your echo chamber and having your conceptions "confirmed". This is making a point, but a point you like, while everything else is soymen (soy isn't bad for men) and women taking over and trying their best to not appeal to a "male audience".

Don't get me wrong, Nubsidian has shit writers, but the problem lies elsewhere.

When you play Pillars 1 with a developer commentary and you enter the brothel in Defiance Bay, the voice of Obsidian's female developer joyfully announces that RPG players always demand brothels in their games. So just a short while ago no one even cared about diversity this, SJW that, including the women on the staff. It was universally understood that little computer people in the video game are just bits of code and you can do all kinds of horrible things to them and there's no problem.

Just 5 years later the climate has changed so much that no only you can't have a brothel, but everything needs to be crafted to avoid the wrath of various Neopuritan pressure groups. All this world salad about formative experiences, valley girls and debate how to raise a perfect video game writer is just ignoring the elephant in the room. I seriously fucking doubt Obsidian's Old Guard is on board with any of this nonsense, but in a climate like this, people are afraid to stick their necks out, when even Holywood big shot celebrities are currently having their careers ruined for less.
 

Hot Coldman

Educated
Joined
Jul 28, 2017
Messages
90
What was it with this game and its aversion from any good looking people? Andromeda-syndrome..
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,718
Pathfinder: Wrath
When you play Pillars 1 with a developer commentary and you enter the brothel in Defiance Bay, the voice of Obsidian's female developer joyfully announces that RPG players always demand brothels in their games. So just a short while ago no one even cared about diversity this, SJW that, including the women on the staff. It was universally understood that little computer people in the video game are just bits of code and you can do all kinds of horrible things to them and there's no problem.

Just 5 years later the climate has changed so much that no only you can't have a brothel, but everything needs to be crafted to avoid the wrath of various Neopuritan pressure groups. All this world salad about formative experiences, valley girls and debate how to raise a perfect video game writer is just ignoring the elephant in the room. I seriously fucking doubt Obsidian's Old Guard is on board with any of this nonsense, but in a climate like this, people are afraid to stick their necks out, when even Holywood big shot celebrities are currently having their careers ruined for less.
You understood me wrong. Doing terrible things to computer people (or whatever thing of yore) is not some kind of neutral position which SJWs have strayed away from, it is a specific position that appeals to a certain demographic or one which has been normalized through excessive repetition and re-confirmation. Now that the status quo is being disrupted, all kinds of theories are popping up about how women are ruining writing in video games and beta cucks are bootlicking peons of the modern left and politics. Buff dudes saving maidens is politics, having brothels for the enjoyment of straight men is politics, having pretty women is politics, and yadda yadda. So, it is not so much the lack of politics that appeal to people who are complaining, and more about what kind of politics it is, the ones with which they agree.

Whether Obsidian's writers believe what they are preaching is wholly besides the point. And again, don't get me wrong, Nubsidian has shit writers.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
The problem is not that women write games. They can write fantastic stories.

Sure they can. But their style is generally different. There are already algorithms that can identify the writer's gender, it's so well defined. (Btw finally a way to determine if there are any actual women on Codex).

I wouldn't say women can write fantastic "stories" per say, not in terms of plot structure, pace, action and high-concept themes. But they far surpass men when it comes to finegrained character studies, societal interactions etc., as you'd expect.

Hence they're actually well suited to writing RPGs, at least things like companions, dialogues etc., the connection tissue between the big blocks.

So you're both right and wrong. First, the problem with TOW companions isn't that they're written by women. It's that they're written by third-rate hacks who've never been told they suck and should find a job in a cubicle making coffee instead. Because in the coastal America everyone is special, everyone is a champ.

But second, the main problem with TOW's overarching themes being so vapid, lame and low-concept absolutely IS gender.
Analyzed a page of MCA's work
Genre: Formal
Female = 486
Male = 1065
Difference = 579; 68.66%
Verdict: MALE

Part of a short story by Kate Dollarhyde
Genre: Formal
Female = 566
Male = 291
Difference = -275; 33.95%
Verdict: FEMALE
 

Pablosdog

Prophet
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
1,879
So I beat the game

I got the "everyone pretty much working together ending". The best parts of the game are in Byzantium. There's a real lack of enemy variety, unique weapons/armor end up being pallete swaps. The ending is pretty abrupt and you can sneak your way through the entire final area incredibly easily.
Companion quests are pretty short(except for Parvati's which is strangely like double the fucking length of everyone else). The economy is absolutely fucked.

I think the whole thing took 30 hours?(compare that to a crpg like pathfinder where I have like 200+ hours in that game).
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
Buff dudes saving maidens is politics, having brothels for the enjoyment of straight men is politics, having pretty women is politics, and yadda yadda. So, it is not so much the lack of politics that appeal to people who are complaining, and more about what kind of politics it is, the ones with which they agree.
"Everything is politics!" is a shit argument.
Did you even read his post?
he voice of Obsidian's female developer joyfully announces that RPG players always demand brothels in their games.
No, there was not a political motivation to put brothels in the game. Why were there brothels? Because people expected there to be brothels in the setting. "X exists therefore X is political" is not an argument.
This is on the same tier of people saying video games are just male power fantasies.
 

Ivan

Arcane
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
7,744
Location
California
@ Monarch right now and thus far I have to give this :2/5:

I'll focus on the pros for now since I'm mostly negative on this:

-the writing is brief and humorous, VO is solid
-there's seems to be a lot of unique companion interjections when talking to NPCs ( a lot of, "I bet if I had X in my party, they'd chime in here," so in that respect I feel they've done a good job painting the companions' interests
-I like how small the maps are, not much bloat nor are you often spammed with enemy encounters very much
 

Nifft Batuff

Prophet
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
3,562
When you play Pillars 1 with a developer commentary and you enter the brothel in Defiance Bay, the voice of Obsidian's female developer joyfully announces that RPG players always demand brothels in their games. So just a short while ago no one even cared about diversity this, SJW that, including the women on the staff. It was universally understood that little computer people in the video game are just bits of code and you can do all kinds of horrible things to them and there's no problem.

Just 5 years later the climate has changed so much that no only you can't have a brothel, but everything needs to be crafted to avoid the wrath of various Neopuritan pressure groups. All this world salad about formative experiences, valley girls and debate how to raise a perfect video game writer is just ignoring the elephant in the room. I seriously fucking doubt Obsidian's Old Guard is on board with any of this nonsense, but in a climate like this, people are afraid to stick their necks out, when even Holywood big shot celebrities are currently having their careers ruined for less.

Luckily enough there are still countries other than US where you can put brothels in your fictional works without risk for your career.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
When you play Pillars 1 with a developer commentary and you enter the brothel in Defiance Bay, the voice of Obsidian's female developer joyfully announces that RPG players always demand brothels in their games. So just a short while ago no one even cared about diversity this, SJW that, including the women on the staff. It was universally understood that little computer people in the video game are just bits of code and you can do all kinds of horrible things to them and there's no problem.

Just 5 years later the climate has changed so much that no only you can't have a brothel, but everything needs to be crafted to avoid the wrath of various Neopuritan pressure groups. All this world salad about formative experiences, valley girls and debate how to raise a perfect video game writer is just ignoring the elephant in the room. I seriously fucking doubt Obsidian's Old Guard is on board with any of this nonsense, but in a climate like this, people are afraid to stick their necks out, when even Holywood big shot celebrities are currently having their careers ruined for less.

Luckily enough there are still countries other than US where you can put brothels in your fictional works without risk for your careers.
We call those countries Texas.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
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KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
When you play Pillars 1 with a developer commentary and you enter the brothel in Defiance Bay, the voice of Obsidian's female developer joyfully announces that RPG players always demand brothels in their games. So just a short while ago no one even cared about diversity this, SJW that, including the women on the staff. It was universally understood that little computer people in the video game are just bits of code and you can do all kinds of horrible things to them and there's no problem.

Just 5 years later the climate has changed so much that no only you can't have a brothel, but everything needs to be crafted to avoid the wrath of various Neopuritan pressure groups. All this world salad about formative experiences, valley girls and debate how to raise a perfect video game writer is just ignoring the elephant in the room. I seriously fucking doubt Obsidian's Old Guard is on board with any of this nonsense, but in a climate like this, people are afraid to stick their necks out, when even Holywood big shot celebrities are currently having their careers ruined for less.
You understood me wrong. Doing terrible things to computer people (or whatever thing of yore) is not some kind of neutral position which SJWs have strayed away from, it is a specific position that appeals to a certain demographic or one which has been normalized through excessive repetition and re-confirmation. Now that the status quo is being disrupted, all kinds of theories are popping up about how women are ruining writing in video games and beta cucks are bootlicking peons of the modern left and politics. Buff dudes saving maidens is politics, having brothels for the enjoyment of straight men is politics, having pretty women is politics, and yadda yadda. So, it is not so much the lack of politics that appeal to people who are complaining, and more about what kind of politics it is, the ones with which they agree.

Whether Obsidian's writers believe what they are preaching is wholly besides the point. And again, don't get me wrong, Nubsidian has shit writers.

Herp derp muh politics.

Guess which recently released game is very highly regarded among the locals? Disco Elysium. A game made by literal communists and brimming with politics. And it doesn't even have combat! The Codex should hate it for being a subversive leftie game!

But no, it's actually good. I'm as far to the right as you can be, which is as far away ideologically from the writers of that game as you can be... yet I love it, even though it somewhat misrepresents fascism.

Why do people love the game then? Because it doesn't openly push an agenda. It lets the player choose what his character thinks and does and feels. You don't get canned opinions and worldviews shoved down your throat. NPCs are written like actual people who have a history and a personality rather than just being sounding boards for political opinions, or walking stereotypes like "STRONG WARRIOR" and "TRICKSTER THIEF".

It's not about which politics are appealing to us and which aren't. It's whether the game's themes, writing, quests, and gameplay are designed well or not, and which stances the game allows you to take.

In a role playing game, I should be allowed to agree or disagree with any position offered to me by NPCs. Because it's, you know, a role playing game. You decide what character to play. If the developers decide for you what your character should be, the game just became less of an RPG for it.

If those SJW cunts had any kind of talent and all and would deliver a genuinely good game, I could even look past them pushing their shitty ideology into it.
But they can't.
They just write hacky shit that's supposed to sound more clever than it actually is, and recycle tired stereotypes because they're not creative enough to come up with their own ideas.
And their solution to "changing the face of gaming" towards something more "inclusive" doesn't entail adding cool new things of their own, no, it's all about avoiding to do the things that are toxic and bad.
No brothels! No damsels in distress! No buff Conanesque strongmen! No sexualized warrior chicks like Red Sonya either!
Ok, but... what are they actually replacing these things with? They replace them with the same stereotypes, except with reversed roles. Now it's the strong butch dyke woman rescuing the soyboy in distress, which is just as trite and boring a cliche as the buff barbarian rescuing the fair maiden. It's not creative, it's boring and predictable.

It's not specifically about the politics. It's that these people have no idea how to creatively express their ideas. And that is largely the fault of their education and surroundings.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,718
Pathfinder: Wrath
"Everything is politics!" is a shit argument.
It's not a shit argument because this is what it boils down to. Expecting something that has come before means something has been normalized and you don't notice it, which is where the problem is. To make a different analogy, the mass consumption of meat at which most people don't bat an eye is because the systematic suffering and death of animals on a massive scale has been normalized. Everything can be habituated through repetition, no matter how unjustified and extreme. That doesn't mean the normalized thing isn't political, it might not be, but when we are dealing with groups of people (especially prostitutes to be exploited by straight men) it most likely is.

The thing is, people that have been catered to suddenly find out that the entire world is not comprised of people like them and they got cranky. All the while not realizing that companies do continue to cater to them because they are the majority, it's just not all the time with everything ever like it was before, companies will not compromise profit for ideology, they know what to target and how to target it.


If those SJW cunts had any kind of talent and all and would deliver a genuinely good game, I could even look past them pushing their shitty ideology into it.

It's almost as if that's what I've been saying the whole time. It's not politics, it's how shit the writers are, yet people complain it's "politics in muh vidya" while failing to realize that politics have always existed. Actually, they don't fail to realize that, they want to make it seem like the previous politics were a neutral stance with no political affiliation, which is devious.
 
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Daidre

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Messages
2,003
Location
Samara
Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
The world depicted in TOW feels like a retarded theme park.

From what I have seen world is really weird with whole food shortage + deceases angle.

I mean, sky is blue, grass is green, air is breathable and wild-life is mostly classic carbon based mammal. And writers claim that there is nothing to grow/breed for easy food? That people in 24th century are so ignorant that they die from vitamin deficit? There are almost working self-sustaining projects for a Mars colonization in our time, for the fuck sake. And whole let the weak die idea with medicine is even more stupid. Raising new workers to replace them is at least 15 years in medicine + education + food costs and it is unavoidable for colony continued survival.

Edgewater already got a lot of head scratching from me. They seem classic mining town except they don't mine anything. They are, in fact, does not produce anything other than canned dead fish. And why they need so many people for canning dead fish with robots this advanced? And who the hell all marauders that outnumber peaceful population 3 to 1 steal from to survive?

Maybe I am not inventive enough or everything falls into place as plot progress but right now it looks like someone skipped science classes.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,977
Location
Russia
some guy did a genocide run and surprise it barely changed anything lol

https://www.reddit.com/r/theouterworlds/comments/dp1bc6/genocide_run_details/
not unexpected. Even choices themselves are mostly flavour of the same. you only get very strong change if you side with someone else but good dude; and it feels like basically all-bad decision which affects everything. like an after thought; not actual alternative like House/NCR/independent. There is no nuance where you can be pro one small thing or another.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
Death by a thousand cuts is no fun at all. And that's what you're risking if you don't play it safe.
 

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