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The PS5 and Xbox 2 thread - it's happening

911 Jumper

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As I said before, I think the best has passed. It's all downhill from here. Can't see anything positive about a new gen. I suppose Nintendo is the exception, but that's because Nintendo continues to do its own thing so people will buy the hardware for its games.
 
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tritosine2k

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[]

As I said before, I think the best has passed. It's all downhill from here.
Good riddance.
This sad excuse of ray tracing won't get you prerender quality and distributed computing wasn't even utilised for prerendered games outside of trailers.
Order 1886 was some 4 GPU.
You should be rather excited because they won't double down on pathetic homeopathical* console/RTX tracing garbage.
Oh and Carmack called it 10+ years ago: RT is "workstation tech".

*Extremely dilute, insipid. < Yeah that fits like a glove
 
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Ravielsk

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As I said before, I think the best has passed. It's all downhill from here. Can't see anything positive about a new gen. I suppose Nintendo is the exception, but that's because Nintendo continues to do its own thing so people will buy the hardware for its games.
Its the expected result of the live service model. I have no idea why this is a surprise to anyone. When you purposefully design your games to be gigantic money and time sinks people will naturally pick one and stick with it. A kid that is playing fortnite and spends all his allowance there is not a kid that wants or needs a new playstation or new games.

Consoles should have never embraced this model because as profitable as it may be initially its also equally destructive because when the influx of new players ends the people they brought in essentially evaporate from the market. They are not interested, nor can they be interested, in other games or consoles because they are wholly invested into this one "service". Video games are not like movies that you can stream and watch anywhere at any time(at least not without a prohitably expensive phone) so almost no one is going invest into multiple "services" like they would invest into multiple shows on multiple subscriptions.
 

Devastator

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As I said before, I think the best has passed. It's all downhill from here. Can't see anything positive about a new gen. I suppose Nintendo is the exception, but that's because Nintendo continues to do its own thing so people will buy the hardware for its games.

I can't speak from personal experience the new Xbox, but based on my observation of the PS5, it's rather underwhelming. The only reason I upgraded from my OG (fat) PS4 was because it had become unbearably slow, especially since I skipped the PRO. Although I still occasionally enjoy playing Bloodborne and Grand Turismo on it (and it has a Blu-ray player) there are some significant drawbacks. Firstly, it's severely underpowered, which makes it almost useless today vs. PCs. Secondly, due to supply shortages, Sony couldn't fully transition into the new generation, resulting in most games being released as cross-gen titles, unable to leverage the new hardware properly. Consequently, the PS5 has aged poorly.

Its weak CPU makes games like BG3 unplayable, despite Digital Foundry claiming that low 20 FPS in the city is 'fine' (it feels like they're just promoting it blindly). The GPU is also lacking, and it relies on brute force rendering, making it pale in comparison to a decent PC with DLSS. The upcoming PRO seems equally underwhelming. A slight boost in CPU frequency won't solve the underlying issue of the weak CPU, and a moderate GPU enhancement won't compensate for the lack of features like native AI upscaling.

The only upside may be the promise of future games running at 60 FPS instead of 30 on the non-PRO, but 60 FPS isn't impressive at all by today's standards (not even compared to the average FPS in competitive Quake 3 in 1999). Perhaps the PRO will suffice for casual gamers or those who do not care about fidelity and FPS. However (acknowledging the large price difference), comparing my PS5 to my PC (13900K & 4080) is just beyond sad it terms of all performance and feature outcomes. And who knows how much faster PCs will be by the time the PRO comes out. Furthermore, by delay-releasing their exclusives on PC, Sony is further dispelling any reason to own a PS as a primary platform.

If I'm going to invest time in gaming, I'd prefer to do so with good performance. After all, if performance doesn't matter, there's no reason to move beyond the XBOX 360 and PS3. There's always a minimum acceptable baseline that is increased over time, and the current console generation simply isn't meeting it at all.

I would agree that Nintendo is doing its own thing, so their hardware being even more puny doesn't matter much, thus their product at least somewhat makes sense.
 

Konjad

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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
PS to PS 2 - 6 years
PS 2 to PS 3 - 6 years
PS 3 to PS 4 - 7 years
PS 4 to PS 4 Pro - 3 years
PS 4 Pro to PS 5 - 4 years

PS 5 is now 4 years old, Pro already should've been released a while ago and they should be thinking about PS 6 by now...

This generation of Xbox and Playstation are is in the water.
 

deuxhero

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Sony already claimed PS5 is in "latter stage of its life cycle". Like I said when they confirmed that.
If we're taking "latter stage" as the most generous of "past halfway" that's still putting discontinued in ~May 2027 at the latest (and consoles rarely have any good new games in their last year). That's about normal for consoles, but they rarely have good games released in their final year, Sony already announced they have no big exclusives planned for over a year, and software sales are so bad that even games announced literally yesterday are cross-gen with PS4 (I know at least one instance a few years ago of a company releasing a game for Switch+PC+PS4+PS5, then releasing the sequel on only Switch+PC+PS4 because PS5 sales were so bad). I think there's a non-zero chance the final PS4 game will also be the final PS5 game, and it's pathetic we're even considering that.
 

Ravielsk

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Its weak CPU makes games like BG3 unplayable, despite Digital Foundry claiming that low 20 FPS in the city is 'fine' (it feels like they're just promoting it blindly). The GPU is also lacking, and it relies on brute force rendering, making it pale in comparison to a decent PC with DLSS. The upcoming PRO seems equally underwhelming. A slight boost in CPU frequency won't solve the underlying issue of the weak CPU, and a moderate GPU enhancement won't compensate for the lack of features like native AI upscaling.
The hardware is not really the issues here. There is simply no way to make a economically sound console that will not eventually get winded from some future game. The PS5 was a perfectly fine piece of hardware when it was launched, the problem is that it was launched into a fucked up market.

Said fucked up market being the result of the biggest historical mistake console manufacturers and game publishers have made in recent memory, the merger of the PC and console markets. Before the 7th gen of consoles very few games were truly multiplatform and there was a very good reason for that separation. Having two explicitly separate markets meant that say the PSX did not have worry about whether its meeting the technical standards set by Quake or have some sort of app to compete with Thief. It meant that games could be designed specifically for the controller and the specs of the machine and be impressive within that context.

Did anyone really care that SOCOM ran mostly at below 30fps? No, maybe some but hardly enough to matter.
Did FFXII have to explain why it has fewer sidequests than Gothic 2? No, because while both are RPGs they targeted entirely different demographics.
Did Golden Eye have to justify not supporting mouse aiming in multiplayer when Duke3d did? No, that straight up did not even cross anyone's mind.

However if the markets were merged back in the 90s all of these, admittedly stupid problems, would be something the devs would have to tackle. People have limited amounts of time and money and as such will be by default looking for the best way to spend both. In the case of consoles and videogames this means that when they can clearly see that no only they are not getting anything substantially better with the PS5 and in some cases get a markedly worse experience the choice is clear for them.
 

Devastator

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Its weak CPU makes games like BG3 unplayable, despite Digital Foundry claiming that low 20 FPS in the city is 'fine' (it feels like they're just promoting it blindly). The GPU is also lacking, and it relies on brute force rendering, making it pale in comparison to a decent PC with DLSS. The upcoming PRO seems equally underwhelming. A slight boost in CPU frequency won't solve the underlying issue of the weak CPU, and a moderate GPU enhancement won't compensate for the lack of features like native AI upscaling.
The hardware is not really the issues here. There is simply no way to make a economically sound console that will not eventually get winded from some future game. The PS5 was a perfectly fine piece of hardware when it was launched, the problem is that it was launched into a fucked up market.

Said fucked up market being the result of the biggest historical mistake console manufacturers and game publishers have made in recent memory, the merger of the PC and console markets. Before the 7th gen of consoles very few games were truly multiplatform and there was a very good reason for that separation. Having two explicitly separate markets meant that say the PSX did not have worry about whether its meeting the technical standards set by Quake or have some sort of app to compete with Thief. It meant that games could be designed specifically for the controller and the specs of the machine and be impressive within that context.

Did anyone really care that SOCOM ran mostly at below 30fps? No, maybe some but hardly enough to matter.
Did FFXII have to explain why it has fewer sidequests than Gothic 2? No, because while both are RPGs they targeted entirely different demographics.
Did Golden Eye have to justify not supporting mouse aiming in multiplayer when Duke3d did? No, that straight up did not even cross anyone's mind.

However if the markets were merged back in the 90s all of these, admittedly stupid problems, would be something the devs would have to tackle. People have limited amounts of time and money and as such will be by default looking for the best way to spend both. In the case of consoles and videogames this means that when they can clearly see that no only they are not getting anything substantially better with the PS5 and in some cases get a markedly worse experience the choice is clear for them.
I agree with your points about the merging of markets. Perhaps that's what also accentuates the hardware issues. However, I wouldn't overlook the weakness of the hardware itself. The inadequacy of 30 FPS will only become more apparent over time to those who care. With larger TVs (75") becoming cheap, the shortcomings like low framerate or poor frame pacing become glaringly obvious compared to the inferior screens of the past.

But still, somehow people don't seem to mind playing Starfield at 30 FPS on the Xbox. I find it hard to understand; it's like someone claiming they don't see the difference between 1080p and 2160p. That's what 30 vs. 60 FPS and 60 FPS vs. 120 FPS feel like - night and day. So I guess if there are enough people who for some reason don't care, the consoles will continue to have their share of the market.

Another aspect I hadn't considered before is the $10 increase in game prices and the notable rise in the cost of PS Plus subscriptions. This occurred amidst an economic downturn, with Sony citing inflation and a long period without price adjustments. I don't think this justification works in their favor. In an inflation, people probably prioritize essentials like food and gas over entertainment expenses. If everything gets pricier, non-essentials will likely be the first to be cut.
 

911 Jumper

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PlayStation names Hermen Hulst and Hideaki Nishino as its new CEOs

Hulst is CEO of the newly named Studio Business Group, which includes all of PlayStation’s first-party teams, plus covers the development of PlayStation IP onto other mediums, such as TV and film

Hideaki Nishino will lead the Platform Business Group, which includes console hardware, technology, accessories, PlayStation Network and third-party relations (covering major publishers and indie studios)
 

Elttharion

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PlayStation names Hermen Hulst and Hideaki Nishino as its new CEOs

Hulst is CEO of the newly named Studio Business Group, which includes all of PlayStation’s first-party teams, plus covers the development of PlayStation IP onto other mediums, such as TV and film

Hideaki Nishino will lead the Platform Business Group, which includes console hardware, technology, accessories, PlayStation Network and third-party relations (covering major publishers and indie studios)

IIRC Hulst was the main force behind the closure of Japan Studio.
 

911 Jumper

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PlayStation names Hermen Hulst and Hideaki Nishino as its new CEOs

Hulst is CEO of the newly named Studio Business Group, which includes all of PlayStation’s first-party teams, plus covers the development of PlayStation IP onto other mediums, such as TV and film

Hideaki Nishino will lead the Platform Business Group, which includes console hardware, technology, accessories, PlayStation Network and third-party relations (covering a major publishers and indie studios)

IIRC Hulst was the main force behind the closure of Japan Studio.

Irc, that's what David Jaffe claimed. I don't remember Hulst himself ever addressing it. I am not surprised at his promotion, though. Sony also has another ex-Guerilla Games member [Angie Smets] in the role of Head of Development Strategy at PlayStation Studios, so I expect the Western/Euro influence on PlayStation's strategy to remain strong during the PS5 era. The other guy [Nishino] is a member of Sony Interactive Entertainment America, and is based in California from what I understand.
 

Alienman

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
PlayStation names Hermen Hulst and Hideaki Nishino as its new CEOs

Hulst is CEO of the newly named Studio Business Group, which includes all of PlayStation’s first-party teams, plus covers the development of PlayStation IP onto other mediums, such as TV and film

Hideaki Nishino will lead the Platform Business Group, which includes console hardware, technology, accessories, PlayStation Network and third-party relations (covering major publishers and indie studios)

The asian guy looks AI generated.
 

911 Jumper

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PlayStation names Hermen Hulst and Hideaki Nishino as its new CEOs

Hulst is CEO of the newly named Studio Business Group, which includes all of PlayStation’s first-party teams, plus covers the development of PlayStation IP onto other mediums, such as TV and film

Hideaki Nishino will lead the Platform Business Group, which includes console hardware, technology, accessories, PlayStation Network and third-party relations (covering major publishers and indie studios)

The asian guy looks AI generated.

I thought the same thing when I saw the image. There isn't a single blemish or wrinkle on his face.
 

Alienman

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Sony creating a Japanese AI CEO to pretend they are still under Japanese leadership :)
 

flyingjohn

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May 14, 2012
Messages
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New Sony Ceo likes Bloodborne, game is kicking his ass and friends are telling him to git gud.
Bloodborne is never getting a remake/port to other platforms it seems.
 
Unwanted

Cologno

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Seems like a really shitty time to be buying something superfluous like a console but man they're still moving'em.
 
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Even in a crap economy some people do well. My income this year is currently looking to be at a personal high. I'm thinking about upgrading my PC since my current one is getting a bit long in the tooth. Then again, there would need to be a AAA game I want to play and that isn't looking likely.
 

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