Jagged Alliance The RPG genre is weak. Very weak. Probably the weakest traditional genre in gaming

[Ol' Willy]

Heroes 3 and maybe THPS 2/Worms Armageddon deserve the top ten

Low-bred, pedigreeless casual detected?

HoMM 3 and Worms Armageddon are low-bred, pedigreeless casual trash? With this statement you made the entire of Russia hate you

 

[Ontopoly]

Hmm...what if the rules exist and are important but are deliberately kept out of sight or given vague descriptions (the game wants the player to experiment, to create tension, mystery, etc)

Then I don't support it. you can't properly create a character if you don't know how the numbers work. It's too shallow in that case and I would consider it a different genre with rpg-lite mechanics on the side. I'm all for certain character building decisions having consequences that you might not know about when you first create the character but I don't think that's what you're referring to.

 

[jungl]

Everything lilura posts is wrong this thread specifically is incredibly sad. Jagged alliance 2 is wizardy 8 under the hood. A level 9 soldier is basically a level 9 fighter ala wizardry so of course they wtf stomp level 3-5 characters if you give them a weapon with high acc like a rifle. Once your understand the mechanics behind the stats and stuff as a tactics game jagged alliance 2 is incredibly overrated. Silent storm was a better tactics game.

Don't join the losers club folks.

 

[Ninjerk]

To me, an rpg is all about the rule system. If the rule system is at the forefront of the gaming experience then it is an rpg. If it's something that happens in the background for you and the game does its best to hide it from you then it's no rpg. It's just a game with rpg-lite elements or some math hidden in the back somewhere. And if the rule system doesn't have a big impact on my character and how I can shape them, then get it out of there. If it's not embracing the rpg mechanics, then it doesn't matter if it has them, it's no rpg. I want the rule system shoved in my face or I won't accept it as an rpg.

Hmm...what if the rules exist and are important but are deliberately kept out of sight or given vague descriptions (the game wants the player to experiment, to create tension, mystery, etc)

What if the 2da files are hidden and the developer wants us to play an RPG but without knowing it?

 

[NJClaw]

To me, an rpg is all about the rule system. If the rule system is at the forefront of the gaming experience then it is an rpg. If it's something that happens in the background for you and the game does its best to hide it from you then it's no rpg. It's just a game with rpg-lite elements or some math hidden in the back somewhere. And if the rule system doesn't have a big impact on my character and how I can shape them, then get it out of there. If it's not embracing the rpg mechanics, then it doesn't matter if it has them, it's no rpg. I want the rule system shoved in my face or I won't accept it as an rpg.

Hmm...what if the rules exist and are important but are deliberately kept out of sight or given vague descriptions (the game wants the player to experiment, to create tension, mystery, etc)

What if the 2da files are hidden and the developer wants us to play an RPG but without knowing it?

Only the Bringer of the Great Revelation can answer this question.

OH MIGHTY Jason Liang WE SUMMON YOU IN THIS DARK MOMENT OF DOUBT! PLEASE ANSWER OUR PRAYERS! PLEASE GRANT US KNOWLEDGE!

 

[Lilura]

Jagged alliance 2 is wizardy 8 under the hood.

lol Wizardry 8. Any RPG with furries is thrown to trash bin.

Silent storm was a better tactics game.

Panzerkleins ruined its tactics, so no.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Silent storm was a better tactics game.

I find the lack of knowledge about "Hammer & Sickle" on Codex disturbing.

 

[Funposter]

Jagged alliance 2 is wizardy 8 under the hood.

lol Wizardry 8. Any RPG with furries is thrown to trash bin.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Jagged alliance 2 is wizardy 8 under the hood.

lol Wizardry 8. Any RPG with furries is thrown to trash bin.

No Kingmaker? Dragon Age: Origins in top games for companion reactivity but no Kingmaker there either?

 

[Jasede]

Silent storm was a better tactics game.

I find the lack of knowledge about "Hammer & Sickle" on Codex disturbing.

We know it, we just think it kind of sucks.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Silent storm was a better tactics game.

I find the lack of knowledge about "Hammer & Sickle" on Codex disturbing.

We know it, we just think it kind of sucks.

This. From what I've heard it was a mediocre follow-up that didn't quite measure to the original.

BTW. I really need to play Silent Storm. People were bitching about Panzerkleins back in the first review I've read and this continues to this very day. This is probably the most infamous RPG enemy I've heard about.
I'd say that Matador from Nocturne would be comparable, but he only got notoriety years after the game release.

 

[visions]

The fact that Hammmer & Sickle came with Starforce DRM and hasn't been legally digitally re-released probably doesn't help its popularity.

 

[Ol' Willy]

BTW. I really need to play Silent Storm. People were bitching about Panzerkleins back in the first review I've read and this continues to this very day. This is probably the most infamous RPG enemy I've heard about.

Hammer and Sickle has:
- real economy (though it appeared first in Sentinels)
- NO PANZERKLEINS. LIKE, EVER
- non-linearity
- reputation system
- clothes that affect AI reaction
- actual C&C
- free choice of when to start the mission (night or day)
- INT now affects dialogues

Hammer & Sickle is the closest to the classic CRPGs of all Silent Storm games. Its non-linearity even more impressive.

 

[Ol' Willy]

The fact that Hammmer & Sickle came with Starforce DRM and hasn't been legally digitally re-released probably doesn't help its popularity.

From where I come from, all good games in 2000-s were released with godawful Starforce. I still have STALKER SOC with this shit. What do you think, I wasn't downloading no-cd every time I reinstalled it?

 

[Raghar]

The fact that Hammmer & Sickle came with Starforce DRM and hasn't been legally digitally re-released probably doesn't help its popularity.

From where I come from, all good games in 2000-s were released with godawful Starforce. I still have STALKER SOC with this shit. What do you think, I wasn't downloading no-cd every time I reinstalled it?

I think you should keep no-cd on you HDD to ensure you'd be able to play it.

 

[Raghar]

Panzerkleins ruined its tactics, so no.

So edgy. (It's actually easier without panzerklein just with sniper. Panzerkleins were mostly optional.)

I actually killed a panzerklein with knife with my main character and medic. ... Then panzerklein exploded, and my main character and medic had hands full with trying to heal each other, because they were only ones who had decent medical skill on team.

 

[Paper]

turn based tactics games are for people who can't defend against a 6-pool

also for people with arthritis

 

[jungl]

lol Wizardry 8. Any RPG with furries is thrown to trash bin.



Panzerkleins ruined its tactics, so no.

The mechs come pretty late in the game and they were a cool addition. They came in time to humble your soldiers who were starting to get too good. Squishy sniper has to watch out to not get blasted by mech. The scout now with lot of AP has to carry grenades and can't run in cut things up without get laserd.

Jagged Alliance is a joke as a tactics game. Hogs of war is even superior. You missed out on the Renaissance era games full experience.

 

[Jason Liang]

Jagged Alliance is a joke as a tactics game.

That's the kind of game Lilura likes.

 

[Lilura]

The mechs come pretty late in the game and they were a cool addition.

Wrong. They come mid-game just as the squad are hitting their stride, and just as the player is getting used to the specific combat roles and tactics of squad members. You are the only "person" in the world that thinks Panzerkleins were well-employed in Silent Storm.

Squishy sniper has to watch out to not get blasted by mech.

No, the sniper IS the mech. Which is the whole point: they make the game 2 EZ.

You missed out on the Renaissance era games full experience.

I am the Renaissance. I coined the term for commentary purposes, and invented its language.

 

[Lilura]

Which makes it weak

What makes the genre weak is that its developers are, as a rule, hacks and bums who can't code, can't write and can't design combat systems.

Even pathfinding routines on non-heightmapped (flat) terrain is too much for them, yet JA2, Silent Storm and X-COM Apocalypse feature accurate pathfinding within destructible, multi-storeyed battlescapes.

 

[Funposter]

sorry Lilura you haven't addressed your blatant hypocrisy re: wizardry 8 yet. please get back to me.

ta.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

lilura learned from the best that it's a sign of weakness to acknowledge your mistakes

 

[Raghar]

Why lilura tagged my post fake news? I killed a panzerklein by two characters who were stabbing it by daggers.

 

[Ol' Willy]

I killed a panzerklein by two characters who were stabbing it by daggers.

Of course it's possible. Scout with high Melee and Hide, Always Inflict Melee Critical - and you can shank PKs without much hassle