The Super BunnyHop Thread

[Siveon]

I actually liked the original, good to see the remake isn't godawful.

 

[NullFlow]

 

[Mozg]

Urgh, the Neogaffian unfair Dark Souls 2 complaining

He explicitly chose to omit mentioning the clever secret most new players won't find while complaining about the close bonfire placement it opens up (using a black powder barrel you have to roll down a set of stairs and then set off with a fire attack to blow open a cracked wall), then made a "look at how stupid this is" clip about a shortcut because he kept missing it trying to roll onto it... when just running for it hits it easily every time. And it's again a thing a new player probably wouldn't do anyway.

Just like Obsidian's old stuff: People will never forgive a low budget, ugly game no matter what is right about it.

 

[Perkel]

Urgh, the Neogaffian unfair Dark Souls 2 complaining

He explicitly chose to omit mentioning the clever secret most new players won't find while complaining about the close bonfire placement it opens up (using a black powder barrel you have to roll down a set of stairs and then set off with a fire attack to blow open a cracked wall), then made a "look at how stupid this is" clip about a shortcut because he kept missing it trying to roll onto it... when just running for it hits it easily every time. And it's again a thing a new player probably wouldn't do anyway.

Just like Obsidian's old stuff: People will never forgive a low budget, ugly game no matter what is right about it.

But he went from otherside where that dude send down that barrel. There is a chance that barrel won't explode but overall him getting that bonfire first time is probable.
Way less probable would be from other side where you can easily destroy that barrel or.

Either way he used bastille part about to much bonfires use and not because level design there was bad. To much bonfires is something that i didn't like after DeS alone, DS1 at least had to do it because of interconected levels and only few bonfires provided 10 estus gulps. DS2 was completely comical with bonfires literally everywhere. DS3 still has to much bonfires but they are usually better hidden or after hard parts of game.

 

[Mozg]

But he went from otherside where that dude send down that barrel. There is a chance that barrel won't explode but overall him getting that bonfire first time is probable.
Way less probable would be from other side where you can easily destroy that barrel or.

Either way he used bastille part about to much bonfires use and not because level design there was bad. To much bonfires is something that i didn't like after DeS alone, DS1 at least had to do it because of interconected levels and only few bonfires provided 10 estus gulps. DS2 was completely comical with bonfires literally everywhere. DS3 still has to much bonfires but they are usually better hidden or after hard parts of game.

The video and the complaint about a simple L-shaped corridor are about coming in from the Forest of Fallen Giants side. Even then it's possible he broke the wall completely by accident and assumed it was a scripted event or something, but it still shows a received contempt for the game that he wouldn't second guess himself about picking just that bonfire to be the one demonstrating what's wrong with DS2 when it's actually a strong point of clever secret design that's different from the secrets in DS1. And then didn't second guess complaining about how broken and dumb a shortcut is because he tried the same incorrect solution to using it over and over.

I don't think SBH is a bad critic, but I think it goes to show that pervasive internet conventional wisdom is contagious and it funneled his perception of the game.

Edit - Like, as a mental exercise, imagine that DS1 didn't have any game sections where you have to walk on narrow tightropes over instant death pits. Then imagine those sequences got transplanted to the ugly, low-budget sequel with weird shader problems, cheap geometry, and constant fields of tiled textures that had a botched launch; you think people wouldn't consider those awkward, frustrating game segments to be obviously shitty?

 

[GrainWetski]

DS3 definitely has way too many bonfires. Especially towards the end of the game(just before Prince Lothric, don't remember the areas) you find a new one/shortcut every 2 minutes.

The first Dark Souls still has the best level desgin by a pretty big margin. I think it has a lot to do with the lack of early teleporting forcing them to actually think about how they make the levels.

 

[Perkel]

DS3 definitely has way too many bonfires. Especially towards the end of the game(just before Prince Lothric, don't remember the areas) you find a new one/shortcut every 2 minutes.

The first Dark Souls still has the best level desgin by a pretty big margin. I think it has a lot to do with the lack of early teleporting forcing them to actually think about how they make the levels.

It has everything to do with lack of teleporting from start. Getting to bonfire at bottom on blightown felt like relief but still you were fucked as you were not able just to telle out of there.

 

[sullynathan]

DS3 definitely has way too many bonfires. Especially towards the end of the game(just before Prince Lothric, don't remember the areas) you find a new one/shortcut every 2 minutes.

The first Dark Souls still has the best level desgin by a pretty big margin. I think it has a lot to do with the lack of early teleporting forcing them to actually think about how they make the levels.

Grand archives literally has one bonfire. It's one of the better designed areas in the game. If anything the game has more bonfires in the early game than the late game.

 

[Murk]

Hehehehe he thinks the open door by the drop in LB is a boss shortcut

edit: "movement and combat that feels less precise than the first"

hehe yahhhh sure

It seems to me that he is mistaking visual presentation and aesthetics for design ideas. I don't fault anyone, especially a popamoler, for enjoying things that look cool and are presented very well. What I don't understand is the basis for many of their complaints that seem contradictory. He talks about verticality... and praises it in DS1. Cool. Then, in DS 2, he fails to mention cleverly designed parts of the game like No Man's Wharf and its multiple shortcuts that are both 2-way and 1-way, or how pretty much the entirety of Forest of Fallen Giants (save for the initial river area) is composed of 2 levels that are omnipresently there, with you constantly swapping from top to bottom to top to bottom. He talks about bonfire placement, yet neglects how DS 3 has bonfires in literal sight of each other in a direct line that you walk to.

He criticizes the mass of mobs in DS2... yet completely neglects the mass of mobs in DS 1 in areas like Darkroot with its multiple treemen and their bizarre range, the mass of painting guardians, the many hollows in the painted world, the groups of rats, etc. Nevermind that his example video of "multiple enemies" was literally 2 Syan Knights attacking him at once at the end of the crypt where you see them from super far off and can separate them by walking around the obelisks.

I can't help but think that people just thought DS 1 was cooler... and instead of just living with that view, they seek out reasons to justify their opinion. There are legitimate complaints to be had about DS 2, especially with the quality of the DLCs really showing the contrast of the lower quality base game, but some of the specific shit they complain about is just bizarre.

I get that I'm borderlining fanboyism for DS 2, but the majority of the complaints seriously come off as someone who dismisses the game without actually checking if their criticisms are even accurate. It reminds me of people missing the rotating chamber in Majula, and then complaining that there's no guidance of where to go when there's a literal light guiding you.

The other thing is the talk about polish, yet in DS 3 I have noticed multiple texture issues (one of which is right in the beginning of high wall of lothric), enemies clipping through walls and ceilings, and the retarded geometry of buildings connecting in the most obtuse ways (collections of pillars that are at awkward angles to one another that remind me of when you build walls in an RTS game without accounting for their spacing.)

Also, those post-processing effects on DS 2 were godawful -- the 3rd DLC was an eye-sore, how the fuck do you willingly go back to the occular rape of original lost izalith?

 

[Damned Registrations]

People bitching about too many bonfires in DS3 seem to be forgetting that the number itself isn't really relevant. It could have an average of 20 per area for all I care, if it's because one of the areas just has 200 in it for no fucking reason or they come in little clusters of 10 within rolling distance. The important thing is for their to be a challenge in getting through areas without running out of estus, and DS3 nailed that. DS1 was all over the place depending on if you had kindled the fire you were using (especially with the rite) and DS2 just had bonfires so frequently you'd never run out.

 

[Murk]

Dude there's a bonfire right after the bonfire of Dragonslayer Armor. What was the point even? There's no enemy between the two points. This is the most extreme example of bonfire made redundant because boss kill spawns one, but there are other cases too like Dancer, Abyss Watchers, etc.

 

[Mozg]

A really underrated change is that you can't pop an ember when you're already in ember-mode. DS1 healing-scarcity is largely pretty fake even without kindling because you always have a sack with 10-20 humanities that can heal 1500+ damage each, and you can use them when you're already human or invading. Effigies don't heal at all so lifegems just ended up being much weaker/slower humanities.

OTOH I hate that they nerfed Warmth into the ground even if it let you do something boring just because taking Anodyne from Dragon's Dogma has some cool setups.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Dude there's a bonfire right after the bonfire of Dragonslayer Armor. What was the point even? There's no enemy between the two points. This is the most extreme example of bonfire made redundant because boss kill spawns one, but there are other cases too like Dancer, Abyss Watchers, etc.

The point was to save you an extra 5 seconds of walking through a completely empty area whenever you spawn/warp there. The boss bonfires are pretty much all redundant, and seem to just be there as a thematic/lore thing. Why would you want to walk the extra distance doing nothing? What purpose would that serve? Why do you want there to not be a bonfire there, specifically? Autism? It's not like they spent hours of development adding the extra bonfires. Probably took a handful of clicks and writing in the name of the bonfire. You may as well be asking why they didn't make the elevator longer.

 

[Murk]

I'm glad they saved me those exact 5 seconds and not the plenty of empty areas with long elevators and ladders and all that other shit that would have been better time savers than obviously redundant placements of checkpoints. On that topic, why the fuck can't you 'sprint' up ladders anymore.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Yeah, they definitely should have made the bridge WAY smaller just so when you climb up to it from the swamp it doesn't take as long. Give me a fucking break.

 

[Murk]

Something wrong with your day, m8? The fuck happened that's making you all aggro?

I didn't mention anything about a bridge, I did mention elevators and ladders that waste time since you brought up saving 5 seconds with redundant bonfires.

 

[Damned Registrations]

You think the ladders are arbitrarily long or something? They're as big as they need to be to cover the area they reach. You can't make them shorter without shrinking entire areas of the game. Elevators you could make faster I suppose, but they already go really fucking fast.

 

[Murk]

Oh forget it. You're right, I'm wrong.

(I still wish you could sprint up ladders by holding the roll button).

 

[sullynathan]

Oh forget it. You're right, I'm wrong.

(I still wish you could sprint up ladders by holding the roll button).

you can already do that in souls 2 & 3

 

[Murk]

You can in 2, you can't sprint up ladders in 3. Unless it's some other button.

 

[Ninjerk]

Something wrong with your day, m8? The fuck happened that's making you all aggro?

I didn't mention anything about a bridge, I did mention elevators and ladders that waste time since you brought up saving 5 seconds with redundant bonfires.

He's always like that.

 

[sullynathan]

You can in 2, you can't sprint up ladders in 3. Unless it's some other button.

I can sprint up the stairs while holding o on my PS4 controller but it doesn't seem much faster.

 

[Murk]

Stairs? I'll retest, but I've tried multiple times and I haven't noticed any difference in moving up ladders while holding sprint (nor have I noticed my stamina bar go down while doing so.)

 

[sullynathan]

You know what, you just might be right.

edit: Actually, I am right but it seems to only happen on long ladders

 

[Wolfe]