The Witcher 2 Enhanced Edition

[DraQ]

CDPR know what makes the fagboxers tick.

In all seriousness though, that is some technically impressive cgi from a fringe potato developer.

That bald guy looks like he lowered his int to 4 and spent the points on agility.

You obviously haven't played the game. Not to spoil anything, but Letho is one of the most intelligent characters.

And he actually uses his int 4 looks for maximum advantage.

 

[Regvard]

CDPR know what makes the fagboxers tick.

In all seriousness though, that is some technically impressive cgi from a fringe potato developer.

That bald guy looks like he lowered his int to 4 and spent the points on agility.

You obviously haven't played the game. Not to spoil anything, but Letho is one of the most intelligent characters.

I haven't. He still looks dumb though. Blame the artist.

 

[Regvard]

CDPR know what makes the fagboxers tick.

In all seriousness though, that is some technically impressive cgi from a fringe potato developer.

That bald guy looks like he lowered his int to 4 and spent the points on agility.

You obviously haven't played the game. Not to spoil anything, but Letho is one of the most intelligent characters.

I haven't. He still looks dumb though. Blame the artist.

Honestly if you play the game you are going to find out HIS thoughts on the issue, you know. WTF. Characters with depth! Actually The original Witcher had equally interesting deep characters. They were not fleshed out in the mediocre obviousness of Biowarian archetypes (the faggot, the emo and the combination of the two) but rather gave hints to their motivations and interests and LEFT them at that. For a game, it is quite very decent experience. In fact the only game I remember having that feeling earlier is Planescape and MOTB. Now you know why I call them mature games; they are NOT the same level as mature literature probably, but for games, they are a whole new level.

The difference between MOTB, Planescape and Witcher franchise is the narrative consequence. The MCA games are spiritual in nature, as in they deal with the realm of human ideas and beliefs. Witcher on the other hand is more earthy analogue that provides pure, blunt entertainment but is sophisticated about it.

I vaguely remember installing W1 and getting low fps on my shitty laptop. Unless adding 2 peanuts to my GPU helps, it will have to wait until I graduate. Will keep this in mind though, thanks.

 

[Kaol]

I didnt like the branching storyline in TW2 either. The game felt a chapter too short and that missing chapter is basically spent on a stroyline branch i'm totally not interested in playing.

Its nice having C&C in a game but if that means i have to pay for hours of gameplay i never experience then it dosn't work.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Regvard
Look Witcher has SHITTY combat. I hope I warned you in advance. But I would claim its still worth the effort.




Kaol

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...choice-and-consequences-in-video-games.69180/

If you read this thread, you will realize that true c&C is almost impossible to implement.

 

[toro]

Meh. It wouldn't matter even if I was in the North Pole, so that argument was invalid from the start.

Sure, considering that you are unable to see the fundamental similarities between TW and ME series. Let's agree to disagree.

I didnt like the branching storyline in TW2 either. The game felt a chapter too short and that missing chapter is basically spent on a stroyline branch i'm totally not interested in playing.

Its nice having C&C in a game but if that means i have to pay for hours of gameplay i never experience then it dosn't work.

Even if true c&C is impossible to implement, decent C&C can be implemented. As masterly illustrated by an obscure game called Fallout. And others.
However this is not an potato approved opinion, therefore please reformat your taste and ask for more fluff C&C in your next Witcher. Pronto.

You obviously haven't played the game. Not to spoil anything, but Letho is one of the most intelligent characters.

I haven't. He still looks dumb though. Blame the artist.

So nice to get such an informed opinion And yes, is worth the effort.

 

[DraQ]

I haven't. He still looks dumb though. Blame the artist.

He actually knows he looks dumb.

He's meant to look dumb while being intelligent.
Don't blame the artist.

I didnt like the branching storyline in TW2 either. The game felt a chapter too short and that missing chapter is basically spent on a stroyline branch i'm totally not interested in playing.

Its nice having C&C in a game but if that means i have to pay for hours of gameplay i never experience then it dosn't work.

So it's nice having C&C in a game but if that means you have to pay for C&C in a game then it doesn't work.

 

[Kaol]

No it means that having a large part of the game unplayed due to C&C design is a bad thing. I'm all for C&C just not the rigid way it was done here.

 

[Captain Shrek]

No it means that having a large part of the game unplayed due to C&C design is a bad thing. I'm all for C&C just not the rigid way it was done here.

Are you from BSN? I remember Chris Beastly saying something like this.

 

[DraQ]

No it means that having a large part of the game unplayed due to C&C design is a bad thing. I'm all for C&C just not the rigid way it was done here.

So you want both consequences, and the game always unfolding in the same way so that you never see anything you wouldn't if you chose differently and vice versa, so no consequences.

Joined: Oct 14, 2011

Oh.

 

[joeydohn]

So you want both consequences, and the game always unfolding in the same way so that you never see anything you wouldn't if you chose differently and vice versa, so no consequences.

Isn't that what has been said for the past few pages? I guess they want want the kind of C&... like in Fable or pizza toppings.

 

[Carrion]

Even if true c&C is impossible to implement, decent C&C can be implemented. As masterly illustrated by an obscure game called Fallout.

The Witcher 2: Enhanced Edition, now complete with Fallout ending slides. Finally it has decent C&C.

What happened to that new chick that was supposed to be in the EE? The one in some of the preview pictures? I thought I saw her for a second in some cutscene in Chapter I but haven't seen her since. I've now reached Chapter III on Roche's path but apart from the small cutscenes between chapters, I haven't really seen any differences except for the new (pointless) tutorial and the Arena mode, both of which were apparently added in some patch before the EE came out.

 

[Havoc]

Iorweth and Roche have a new (and different from each other) quest in Act III. I think that woman should be in Roche's path.

 

[Carrion]

Yeah, I found her. Nice quest as well, it definitely improves the third chapter.

 

[toro]

No it means that having a large part of the game unplayed due to C&C design is a bad thing. I'm all for C&C just not the rigid way it was done here.

So you want both consequences, and the game always unfolding in the same way so that you never see anything you wouldn't if you chose differently and vice versa, so no consequences.

So you want both consequences, and the game always unfolding in the same way so that you never see anything you wouldn't if you chose differently and vice versa, so no consequences.

Isn't that what has been said for the past few pages? I guess they want want the kind of C&... like in Fable or pizza toppings.

Let's finish this pathetic charade and allow me to use my ASCI skills while doing it.

Witcher Story Design

Chapter1 ----> P1 ----> Chapter 2 ----> P2 -----+---> Chapter 3A (Roche) -----+----> P3 -----> Chapter 4 (Ending)
________________________________________________+---> Chapter 3B (Iorveth) ---+

We know that each chapter contains quests with multiple solutions, which is nice and awesome.
But we also have the Px points where the game basically erases everything that happened before. This is the dark and dirty secret of the Witcher.
And because CdProjekt were aware of this shit, they cleverly tried several ways to hide it:

1) Using the Witcher's entourage: the dwarf, the bard and the pussy. Add Iorveth and Roche to this bunch.
The dialogs of these characters is always on topic, because the game designer knew *exactly* what were the important moments in the story, therefore it could simulate the game world "continuity". Don't ask me why this is not possible in a game with a real non-linear story. Don't ask how many people quit the game because they could not kill Letho on the first encounter. Don't ask me why Iorveth disappears from the game, if you choose Roche's path. And so on.

2) No chapter backtracking is possible.
This is especially useful because the gamer can never go back and assess the results of his actions. And according to the marketing logic, it doesn't make sense to implement consequences which would never be part of the game in any given scenario. In other words: there is not backtracking, because there is nothing to assess! And is true that there is a lot of proper C&C within chapters, meaning that multiple quest results are available within each chapter, however no quest consequence really crosses a chapter border. It's simply not possible: everything is encapsulated and managed. No transgression from the script is possible. Once you cross the chapter border, the latest one or the alternative one ceases to exist. And this is done because of financial reasons instead of an oldskool C&C philosophy.

3) The entire game can be summed like this:
Start ---- > P1 -----> P2 ----> P3 -----> End
MY GOD, THIS IS A FUCKING LINE!!! Even DAO is better.

In conclusion: All the C&C from Witcher is actually fluff, because CDProjekt doesn't really have the balls to go all the way. It's almost impossible taking in consideration the high quality of the game assets.
And I understand that this might not bother a lot of people, the game has a certain quality, but the whole Iorveth/Roche is big bluff engineered to hide a weak C&C implementation, if is not done just to force players to replay the "masterpiece".
As for Fallout, it never had the Px points, therefore the ending made sense.
...
Also if it makes sense, a Fallout ending slideshow is welcomed in any game.
...
And persistent C&C as in Fallout is a superior alternative to this fluff.

So, can we close this discussion? Or we still need to search for a diamond in this pile of shit?

 

[Carrion]

What consequences were there in Fallout that crossed location borders? The reputation system was all good and gave your actions permanent consequences, and I prefer it to the fully scripted approach of TW2, but all the locations were pretty much completely isolated from each other save for a couple of small exceptions. Sure, you could backtrack to a previous location, but there was little reason to do so and you wouldn't see any actual consequences to your actions anyway. Had you used Arcanum or even New Vegas as an example, I might've actually agreed with you, but most of your complaints apply to Fallout just as much as they do to TW2.

Also, even though it's true that many of the choices and their consequences are sort of isolated from the rest of the game (which isn't really a flaw since short-term C&C is still good), TW2's C&C does cross chapter borders, many times, even if you ignore the obvious Roche/Iorveth choice. Your actions in previous chapters have a notable effect on Chapter 3 (certain characters may be dead or alive, some quests might be available or unavailable based on what you did earlier in the game, the summit part plays out differently depending on your previous actions and the side you've chosen earlier in the game). People you've helped/angered earlier in the game may reward/attack you in later chapters. It's not revolutionary by any means, but it's definitely more notable than anything you can see in Fallout.

 

[Storyfag]

So, can we close this discussion? Or we still need to search for a diamond in this pile of shit?

*Reads through the pile of shit you posted. Fails to see a diamond*

Yep, we still need to search for one. My Gods, you are retarded. Haven't you noticed how many things change in Chapter 3 (which you incorrectly label Chapter 4, for some odd reason), depending on all the small choices you make on your way there? Hell, even the savegame you import from TW1 influences stuff there! I would recommend you actually play the game. Having done that, you will know 1) how many chapters are there, 2) how the game's C&C work.

 

[Havoc]

BTW, VD did a better job than you years ago.

 

[toro]

What consequences were there in Fallout that crossed location borders?

There were a quite a few of multi-location quests. So the question doesn't really make sense in case of Fallout. And you already answered.

Sure, you could backtrack to a previous location, but there was little reason to do so and you wouldn't see any actual consequences to your actions anyway

And that's like your opinion. For me, the simple fact that I could go back to a location was enough. The world was consistent. No fucking continents appeared or disappeared because of a dialog line. And the locations were definitely not the same as pristine as at the first visit.

People you've helped/angered earlier in the game may reward/attack you in later chapters. It's not revolutionary by any means, but it's definitely more notable than anything you can see in Fallout.

Exactly. That's why I can still remember Fallout's ending compared to the fucking circus from TW2 ending.
And don't get me wrong, I really like some things from TW2, but I dislike C&C corridors. See below.

Haven't you noticed how many things change in Chapter 3 (which you incorrectly label Chapter 4, for some odd reason), depending on all the small choices you make on your way there?

I considered Prologue to be Chapter 1.

As for Chapter 3 (http://witcher.wikia.com/wiki/The_Witcher_2_ending):
PrologueChapter IChapter IIChapter III
Aryan Alive Choose Roche Henselt Alive Save Anais
Save Triss
Henselt Dead Save Anais
Save Triss
Choose Iorveth Stennis Alive Save Saskia
Save Triss
Stennis Dead Save Saskia
Save Triss
Aryan Dead Choose Roche Henselt Alive Save Anais
Save Triss
Henselt Dead Save Anais
Save Triss
Choose Iorveth Stennis Alive Save Saskia
Save Triss
Stennis Dead Save Saskia
Save Triss
The decision from prologue has no influence on the end game. Which means that there are actually only 8 paths or endings in the game.
The number has no importance what-so-ever, except that is shows how many paths were allowed by the game designer. No transgression from these paths is possible.
Best example: You cannot kill Letho on the first encounter. It is not allowed. And others.

Also this table illustrates another point: your small choices count for shit. Only one choice per chapter *really* matters in the end.
And the end of the game is a glorified presentation, in which you can choose who appears or not.

As for me, because of the table above, I have to admit that technically TW2 has C&C. But from a gaming perspective, it simply doesn't feel right. It's weak. It's gimmicky.
My *kind* of consequences would be that one consequence is reflected in the game world. But they cheat: choose Roche -> see world number 1, choose Iorveth -> see world number 2. WTF?
Why is not the same world in which I can see the clear and different reflections of my decisions? How can I compare my actions in world number 1 versus world number 2? I cannot. There is not way.
Therefore as a player I have no way to asses the impact of my decisions. That's why it doesn't make sense to replay the game, if the gamer motivation is to see the way he influences the world/story.
But it makes perfect sense from the developer point of view. It's much simpler.

Somebody mentioned early that TW series is about the story of Geralt and that's all that matters. I see no way in which you can separate Geralt from the game world.

Hell, even the savegame you import from TW1 influences stuff there!

The savegames from TW1 influences only the starting equipment/money in TW2. Nothing else. Unless is some obscure shit ... but no secondary NPC reappears in TW2.

BTW, VD did a better job than you years ago.

It's a competition?

 

[Deleted member 7219]

I remember I couldn't kill that big guy in the power armour in Fallout 2 when I first met him. Really spoiled the game for me.

Come to think of it, couldn't kill the Overseer in Fallout 1 (except for right at the very end). Damn. Just wasn't allowed.

 

[sea]

Only 8 endings? Jesus, this game is fucking linear as shit!

 

[made]

Eh, ending slides that reflect your choices throughout the game are nice and all but consequences that actually affect gameplay are preferable.
I can sorta see where toro is coming from. The ch 2 Roche vs Iorweth path choice was great, I thought, but perhaps too major and binary for its own good. I'd have preferred more smaller-scale C&C in its place (or ideally, on top of it) that change how your game plays out in subtle ways, not necessarily how the story develops.
Otoh, expecting to kill a major antagonist in the first battle (why not right there in the intro?) is unrealistic in a heavily story-centric game like this where he clearly still has a role to play.

 

[Carrion]

There were a quite a few of multi-location quests. So the question doesn't really make sense in case of Fallout. And you already answered.

And TW2 has quests that continue over multiple chapters. Not that it would matter since it says nothing about C&C.

The savegames from TW1 influences only the starting equipment/money in TW2. Nothing else. Unless is some obscure shit ... but no secondary NPC reappears in TW2.

Some dialogues play out differently. You may meet at least Siegfried and Thaler's agent in the game. You may get trouble from the Knights of the Flaming Rose in at least two parts of the game if you didn't side with them in TW1. You can meet a priest who curses you if you saved Adda, who is now married to Radovid which should affect at least Chapter 3 on Roche's path (not sure, I haven't tested it myself). Shani is mentioned in the journal if you chose her over Triss in the first game. There's more but I can't remember it off the top of my head.

 

[Commissar Draco]

That's all fine and Dandy but did they patched this already?

 

[Yoshiyyahu]

What consequences were there in Fallout that crossed location borders?

There were a quite a few of multi-location quests. So the question doesn't really make sense in case of Fallout. And you already answered.

Sure, you could backtrack to a previous location, but there was little reason to do so and you wouldn't see any actual consequences to your actions anyway

And that's like your opinion. For me, the simple fact that I could go back to a location was enough. The world was consistent. No fucking continents appeared or disappeared because of a dialog line. And the locations were definitely not the same as pristine as at the first visit.

People you've helped/angered earlier in the game may reward/attack you in later chapters. It's not revolutionary by any means, but it's definitely more notable than anything you can see in Fallout.

Exactly. That's why I can still remember Fallout's ending compared to the fucking circus from TW2 ending.
And don't get me wrong, I really like some things from TW2, but I dislike C&C corridors. See below.

Haven't you noticed how many things change in Chapter 3 (which you incorrectly label Chapter 4, for some odd reason), depending on all the small choices you make on your way there?

I considered Prologue to be Chapter 1.

As for Chapter 3 (http://witcher.wikia.com/wiki/The_Witcher_2_ending):
PrologueChapter IChapter IIChapter III
Aryan Alive Choose Roche Henselt Alive Save Anais
Save Triss
Henselt Dead Save Anais
Save Triss
Choose Iorveth Stennis Alive Save Saskia
Save Triss
Stennis Dead Save Saskia
Save Triss
Aryan Dead Choose Roche Henselt Alive Save Anais
Save Triss
Henselt Dead Save Anais
Save Triss
Choose Iorveth Stennis Alive Save Saskia
Save Triss
Stennis Dead Save Saskia
Save Triss
The decision from prologue has no influence on the end game. Which means that there are actually only 8 paths or endings in the game.
The number has no importance what-so-ever, except that is shows how many paths were allowed by the game designer. No transgression from these paths is possible.
Best example: You cannot kill Letho on the first encounter. It is not allowed. And others.

Also this table illustrates another point: your small choices count for shit. Only one choice per chapter *really* matters in the end.
And the end of the game is a glorified presentation, in which you can choose who appears or not.

As for me, because of the table above, I have to admit that technically TW2 has C&C. But from a gaming perspective, it simply doesn't feel right. It's weak. It's gimmicky.
My *kind* of consequences would be that one consequence is reflected in the game world. But they cheat: choose Roche -> see world number 1, choose Iorveth -> see world number 2. WTF?
Why is not the same world in which I can see the clear and different reflections of my decisions? How can I compare my actions in world number 1 versus world number 2? I cannot. There is not way.
Therefore as a player I have no way to asses the impact of my decisions. That's why it doesn't make sense to replay the game, if the gamer motivation is to see the way he influences the world/story.
But it makes perfect sense from the developer point of view. It's much simpler.

Somebody mentioned early that TW series is about the story of Geralt and that's all that matters. I see no way in which you can separate Geralt from the game world.

Hell, even the savegame you import from TW1 influences stuff there!

The savegames from TW1 influences only the starting equipment/money in TW2. Nothing else. Unless is some obscure shit ... but no secondary NPC reappears in TW2.

BTW, VD did a better job than you years ago.

It's a competition?

im not 100% sure, but dont you meet sigfried in Chapter III if you sided with the order of the flaming faggoths in W1?