The Witcher 3 Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Commissar Draco]

Combat in proper RPG should be all about training and outfiting your PC and encounter tactics (like placement and proper formations) not about player twitching skill and reflex

This is the most arbitrary and senseless distinction I have ever read.

There is nothing inherently inferior about twitch skills and reflexs.

Player Character skill used in combat = Role Playing game.

Player twich skill used in Combat = FPS Game like Doom, DN3D or Quake.

Mind I like both and even Good Diablo clone like Grim Dawn/DS43 too but saying the bastardized mutant spawn of those two genres the modern ARPG is not inferior to both of its illustrious ancestors is asking for dumbfuck tag... at least here on Codex.

 

[Rahdulan]

I'm not a combat fetishist but the constant rolling is annoying, why isn't the stamina going down?

I remember some posted in this thread that it should do just that, review or some shit.

There are apparently two types of rolls and only the long one consumes stamina. Or short rolls were replaced by pirouettes, something along those lines. I know some youtuber talked about being an idiot and rolling all the time to his detriment.

 

[Alienman]

Rolling is second nature to Geralt, he started to roll before he could walk

And remember guys, send those thank you letters to CD Projekt RED hehe

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

The stamina works weird, if it's full it doesn't decrease when rolling, but if it's even 99% - it does decrese because of rolling.

So if you for example enable quen - you can't roll around forever because you don't have 100% stamina.

At least that's what they said on reddit/r/witcher (which is nice way to flush out the negativity of rpgcodex, and vice versa - I recommend it to fanboys that vent here).

A bug then?

 

[Makabb]

Combat in proper RPG should be all about training and outfiting your PC and encounter tactics (like placement and proper formations) not about player twitching skill and reflex

This is the most arbitrary and senseless distinction I have ever read.

There is nothing inherently inferior about twitch skills and reflexs.

Player Character skill used in combat = Role Playing game.

Player twich skill used in Combat = FPS Game like Doom, DN3D or Quake.

Mind I like both and even Good Diablo clone like Grim Dawn/DS43 too but saying the bastardized mutant spawn of those two genres the modern ARPG is not inferior to both of its illustrious ancestors is asking for dumbfuck tag... at least here on Codex.

this is why witcher is not an rpg and should be in general gaming

 

[cvv]

I think Dragonul09's point is that combat should be more organic (don't know if that's the right term) instead of getting killed by a boss, learning his pattern and dominating him from there on.

Dragonul is full of shit.

Single-person aRPGs done well can be tremendous fun even when the combat is terribru (Morrowind). It's just different kind of fun than turn-based, party-based games. And action combat can be good (PB games), even great (Souls games).

There's a lot of shitting and vomiting on W2 combat and it's a bit unfair. Yes the free rolling was idiotic but at least it wasn't a full retard button mash like Amalur or the floaty piece of shit Bethesda have been doing since forever. If they'd changed it up a bit so that you spend some resource while rolling (and make corresponding AI adjustments) plus make the rolls more human-like, not fucking tiger leaps, it would've been a really good system.

 

[Markman]

Dan is streaming on hardest diff, PC version. http://www.twitch.tv/dansgaming
Seems like every encounter can kill you and he got killed like 10 times when fighting the griffin from trailers.

 

[Alienman]

Watching that Dan guy a bit. Trying to avoid spoilers, but... can't you block in Witcher 3 like in the second? Do you have to dodge? Haven't seen he block once

 

[hivemind]

Combat in proper RPG should be all about training and outfiting your PC and encounter tactics (like placement and proper formations) not about player twitching skill and reflex

This is the most arbitrary and senseless distinction I have ever read.

There is nothing inherently inferior about twitch skills and reflexs.

Player Character skill used in combat = Role Playing game.

Player twich skill used in Combat = FPS Game like Doom, DN3D or Quake.

Mind I like both and even Good Diablo clone like Grim Dawn/DS43 too but saying the bastardized mutant spawn of those two genres the modern ARPG is not inferior to both of its illustrious ancestors is asking for dumbfuck tag... at least here on Codex.

Tactics, strategy and character building is also dependant on player "skill" and capability.
Knowing how to place my units around requires just as much of my input as knowing when to press the right button.

It's even more arbitrary because in most of these "bastardized mutant spawns" the twitch skill and character attributes(the allocation of which also depends on the player) compliment each other.

You can't beat Gothic with a sword if you don't put your stat points into STR.

Also

Giving "player skill" some negative attonation is beyond retarded when it comes to video games because games are about skill. Everything you do in any game is about beating the game and ought to require specific input in order to achieve success. The way you construct your party, the way you mash your buttons, the talent you take at level 3, the order of spells you use in an encounter, if all of these and many others more don't require you to figure out what is the right way to get past the given encounters then you are not playing a game and are just instead strolling around in a garden.

And it's even far more retarded to give "twitch skill" some special negative attonation when compared to "tactics skill" and "character building skill", it's all the same in the core principle of figuring out what works and beating the game.

 

[WhiteGuts]

You can only parry, I think.

 

[Metro]

Unless this turns out to be the second coming of Gothic after all, it's not going up.

It's the second coming of Gothic... 3.

 

[Makabb]

Watching that Dan guy a bit. Trying to avoid spoilers, but... can't you block in Witcher 3 like in the second? Do you have to dodge? Haven't seen he block once

there are no shields, so how would you block? with a sword? it would be retarded, but i guess if geralt can send back arrows by hitting them they could also have retarded blocking.

 

[WhiteGuts]

You can parry some foes, mostly humans. If you try to parry big monsters or heavily equipped humans, you'll lose health and get stunned, from what I recall.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

This Dan guy uses both the 'side-step' and 'roll' to dodge and even though his stamina is pretty low he doesn't lose it when rolling.

 

[Jools]

The stamina works weird, if it's full it doesn't decrease when rolling, but if it's even 99% - it does decrese because of rolling.

So if you for example enable quen - you can't roll around forever because you don't have 100% stamina.

Quen+SpamRolling is a bit redundant, at least it is so in TW2... Either one is more than enough to win most fights.

 

[Ulminati]

They got rid of the pirouette

Uh? We saw that in videos just days ago.

There was dedicated button for pirouette once.

There still is. It's called "attack".
Pretty much every attack where Geralt has to move more than 5cm to close with the enemy is prefaced with a merry little pirouette. GO watch a coupl eof streams if you don't believe me.

 

[Dreaad]

I think Dragonul09's point is that combat should be more organic (don't know if that's the right term) instead of getting killed by a boss, learning his pattern and dominating him from there on. That said, I never played any of Souls games.

lel fuck you all, I liked TW2 combat, you're mostly just useless spergs when it comes to anything else than excel-sheeting your 40 years old RPG. There are many legitimate complaints to make about this game but the combat isn't one.

Excel sheets and 40 years old RPG are the last thing I compare Witcher 2 combat to, it's apples and oranges. That said, most hack and slash action RPGs/action games I've played had more enjoyable action combat than Witcher 2 (even low budget action RPGs like Bound by Flame being the latest example) for me and I'm not really biased against the game, I like it quite a bit for its strengths (setting, writing/plot, C&C, art direction, Geralt as a protagonist etc.) and replayed it several times.

I get what he's saying too, but it makes no sense. Even in real life any fight that lasts more than 2 minutes is going to have a pattern emerge. You only need to watch boxing, fencing or any other combat sport.... yes real life is more complicated. Frankly however I don't have 3 months to prepare for one fight against a drowner, or even a boss, in any video game. It's not my job. That's why the patterns of enemies in any good (not Witcher 2) action RPG's are relatively simple. In Dark Souls, chances are you will die 5+ times to most of the harder bosses, by that time you should understand the pattern and just be able to work on correct timing... if they dragged it out any longer it would make the game stall completely, spending 3+ hours on the exact same spot in a single player game is already pushing it (maybe smt games being an anomaly).

His moaning about a complex AI that you can't 'predict' was BS, he clearly has no fucking clue. All the best action games EVER released, have clear patterns for their enemies options, even extreme fighting games, because as a hobby you do not have infinite time to study fucking AI patterns. At least not in an action game, strategy games I could understand.

Also I apologize, I didn't mean to rant at you, just share my thoughts based on what you said. The Witcher is indeed a pretty poor example of an action game because:
1.) You are using the same move set for 50+ hours. Which has no combo mechanics, its just light attack or heavy attack.
2.) There is essentially only 3 types of enemies you fight for 50+ hours (normal, blockers, heavy attackers).
3.) Rolling and signs break the game completely.
4.) Traps are fun, but you get no xp for killing shit with traps.
5.) Laggy control responses.
6.) All the fights that could have been interesting are QTE's.
7.) It's shit.

 

[MicoSelva]

This Dan guy uses both the 'side-step' and 'roll' to dodge and even though his stamina is pretty low he doesn't lose it when rolling.

I asked the review guy from CD Projekt RED forums about this. His answer:

There are two types of dodge. Fast dodge and dodge roll. Only Dodge roll consumes stamina. you can take damage while dodge, it does not make you immune.

Note: he plays on hard (3rd of four difficulties)

EDIT: 13 hours left.

 

[Infinitron]

There still is. It's called "attack".
Pretty much every attack where Geralt has to move more than 5cm to close with the enemy is prefaced with a merry little pirouette. GO watch a coupl eof streams if you don't believe me.

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm pretty sure I saw actual pirouette "side-step" dodging, and recently.

MicoSelva Ask him if the "fast dodge" is a pirouette. It's absurd that that there's a misunderstanding of the game's basic features at this stage.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

This Dan guy uses both the 'side-step' and 'roll' to dodge and even though his stamina is pretty low he doesn't lose it when rolling.

I asked the review guy from CD Projekt RED forums about this. His answer:

There are two types of dodge. Fast dodge and dodge roll. Only Dodge roll consumes stamina. you can take damage while dodge, it does not make you immune.

Note: he plays on hard (3rd of four difficulties)

EDIT: 13 hours left.

That's good to know but that's in not what I'm seeing when people play on the hardest difficulty.

 

[Jools]

lel fuck you all, I liked TW2 combat, you're mostly just useless spergs when it comes to anything else than excel-sheeting your 40 years old RPG. There are many legitimate complaints to make about this game but the combat isn't one.

Hmmm, wrong-o.

Combat in TW2 was boring as fuck. I am shit at action-RPGs, and even I could beat it on Dark mode, with minimal dying and without potion-spamming. I much preferred combat in TW1 for that matter, at least it was kinda unique, and I didn't mind the timing thing. And you will find many people here (I, for one) who enjoy the combat of Gothic1/2 (WTF, right?), or that don't enjoy "excel-sheeting" as much as you'd like to think.

Really, there is no chance combat in TW2 can pass for "good". It ranges from randomly and needlessly punishing to tediously trivial, depending on how much one spams Quen and Rolls, and on where enemies end up (behind = "you're fucked"). Furthermore, it's really all swordplay: true, they have to stay true to the books, but it still makes combat quite dull, in the end. One can only endure so much watching Geralt pirouette all around overhead-slashing stuff. It's not the most horrible combat system I've experienced, but sure as hell it could use a lot of improving, under many points of view (balance, variety, difficulty).

Oh, and I'm kinda annoyed they made the sword selection automatic (I think I've read somewhere they have). C'mon, it wasn't such a hard "action/choice" to leave to the player...

 

[ArchAngel]

I also found TW2 combat tedious. All the rolling got old by the middle of the game. Then when I decided to not do it and got owned by Harpies I just quit the game completely.

 

[Ulminati]

There still is. It's called "attack".
Pretty much every attack where Geralt has to move more than 5cm to close with the enemy is prefaced with a merry little pirouette. GO watch a coupl eof streams if you don't believe me.

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm pretty sure I saw actual pirouette "side-step" dodging, and recently.

MicoSelva Ask him if the "fast dodge" is a pirouette. It's absurd that that there's a misunderstanding of the game's basic features at this stage.

Some people claimed it was removed. All I know is what I see on streams running on the other monitor. Every time Geralt is fighting multiple enemies and switches targets (or even if there's just one enemy and he's moving towards it while attacking), there's a high chance of him doing a little silly pirouette before striking. I get that it's supposed to be (AAA)wesome. But there's no reason why a swordsman would intentionally turn his back to the enemies. And the high frequency of the pirouette animation playing makes it look stupid rather than (AAA)wesome.

All streamers except one that I've watched so far have complained that the combat is too easy btw. Most of them were playing on hard. They did a mix of pirouette-attacks, igni and the odd roll. I haven't seen rolls draining any stamina, but perhaps I wasn't looking close enough.

 

[MicoSelva]

MicoSelva Ask him if the "fast dodge" is a pirouette. It's absurd that that there's a misunderstanding of the game's basic features at this stage.

Nah, this has no gameplay relevance, and we will see that for ourselves soon. I do not want to bother him about nitpicky details - he gets already too much of that on CDPR forums.

But yeah, there is a lot of misunderstanding caused by people repeating false information. "Uber" graphical settings is one of those. Uber is not a level of settings above "Ultra". Uber = Ultra, it is just another name for the detail level above "High". Unless Uber means Ultra + ubersampling.

That's good to know but that's in not what I'm seeing when people play on the hardest difficulty.

Well, I have no better source of information, so we will need for the release to clear the doubts.

 

[Ulminati]

That's good to know but that's in not what I'm seeing when people play on the hardest difficulty.

Well, I have no better source of information, so we will need for the release to clear the doubts.

There's a dozen people streaming Twitcher3 on twitch right now. You could go into any one of their streams and ask in chat. Odds are you'll get an answer if the question is gameplay-relevant.