The Witcher 3 Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Necroscope]

Potatoes are not more popular in Poland than they're in America. Not so long ago I was even asking my countrymen on the Dex what's going on with the whole thing. It's just an Internet misconception.

 

[Decado]

Americans fucking love potatoes.

 

[Necroscope]

 

[Cadmus]

For example I don't understand why muricans seem to have problem with watching movies in the original language with subtitles. You are missing half the fun that way.

We aren't trained to do it. 99.9% of our media is our own, unlike pretty much every other country I have been to. So you could go 30 years into your life without even realizing the French make movies, let alone watch one. One day a kwa bro encounters his first subtitled foreign movie and he's like "wtf is this shit?" and quickly changes the channel before his world view is challenged.

Also video games aren't movies. If your English version sucks, it just means your translation sucks.

Seriously. Translation is pretty fucking cheap. There is no excuse for poor translation.

Good writers are rare, and good translators are rarer still. My fifth form latin teacher described it as a kind of poetry. I think that's apt. You're translating the idea into different words, in a different language, while retaining the rhythm of the original.

That's no small thing.

I have worked in translation for highly technical stuff (so, a lot harder to translate than video games) and I can tell you this:

Good translation is never done by one person. Generally, when you want to have a document translated, you send it to a person fluent in both languages. Then, you send that document to an editor who is fluent in the final language. The last step is HUGELY IMPORTANT but also the one most often skipped by people who are trying to save some money. Which is ridiculous when you think about it, because what you're looking for here is essentially an editor. You never, ever go from the first draft of a document (no matter the language) right to release, so why on Earth would you do it for a translation?

And that's the biggest problem with The Witcher, by the way, and a lot of other shitty translations. The actual translation per se is usually pretty good. The problem is that a competent editor is rarely used to edit the translated work. People think "Okay well it's translated, ship it!" which is ridiculous. The point of having an editor who speaks/writes the translated language fluently (in the Witcher's case, English) is so that a native speaker can read/hear the dialog and pick out the words/phrases/sentences/intonations that will sound "off" to a native speaker, who in this case is the group that makes up your audience.

In my opinion and experience, that's why translations end up fucking terrible. And there is no excuse for it. You can go on E-Lance and find a competent editor for a few thousand bucks. It is peanuts.

Blablah, fuck a duck. Technical translations are far easier than translating a literature or anything resembling an art, so you're full of shit. And I know how a goddamn translation process works as I'm sure many people here do and I do them too, you're not a special snowflake and there's nothing remotely difficult about it. If you're translating a legal document, you need to know the law itself and string together the nonsensical retarded 20 line sentences so that the outcome is correct. When you're translating a technical text, you need to know the technical thing and the actually used words/or slang. It's not a brain surgery.

What's far more difficult is translating an artistic text. I'm not saying that a conversation about dwarf tits is an art but there are certain things involved that are up to the translator to make read and look good instead of blindly juxtaposing one technical term for another. Yeah, I often read many games don't even have an editor which is stupid. But I think you're underestimating what it takes to make a good translation.

There's a reason great works of literature are discussed in the terms of who actually translated them, because it's fucking difficult and subjective and the translator's personality seeps through.

 

[Decado]

For example I don't understand why muricans seem to have problem with watching movies in the original language with subtitles. You are missing half the fun that way.

We aren't trained to do it. 99.9% of our media is our own, unlike pretty much every other country I have been to. So you could go 30 years into your life without even realizing the French make movies, let alone watch one. One day a kwa bro encounters his first subtitled foreign movie and he's like "wtf is this shit?" and quickly changes the channel before his world view is challenged.

Also video games aren't movies. If your English version sucks, it just means your translation sucks.

Seriously. Translation is pretty fucking cheap. There is no excuse for poor translation.

Good writers are rare, and good translators are rarer still. My fifth form latin teacher described it as a kind of poetry. I think that's apt. You're translating the idea into different words, in a different language, while retaining the rhythm of the original.

That's no small thing.

I have worked in translation for highly technical stuff (so, a lot harder to translate than video games) and I can tell you this:

Good translation is never done by one person. Generally, when you want to have a document translated, you send it to a person fluent in both languages. Then, you send that document to an editor who is fluent in the final language. The last step is HUGELY IMPORTANT but also the one most often skipped by people who are trying to save some money. Which is ridiculous when you think about it, because what you're looking for here is essentially an editor. You never, ever go from the first draft of a document (no matter the language) right to release, so why on Earth would you do it for a translation?

And that's the biggest problem with The Witcher, by the way, and a lot of other shitty translations. The actual translation per se is usually pretty good. The problem is that a competent editor is rarely used to edit the translated work. People think "Okay well it's translated, ship it!" which is ridiculous. The point of having an editor who speaks/writes the translated language fluently (in the Witcher's case, English) is so that a native speaker can read/hear the dialog and pick out the words/phrases/sentences/intonations that will sound "off" to a native speaker, who in this case is the group that makes up your audience.

In my opinion and experience, that's why translations end up fucking terrible. And there is no excuse for it. You can go on E-Lance and find a competent editor for a few thousand bucks. It is peanuts.

Blablah, fuck a duck. Technical translations are far easier than translating a literature or anything resembling an art, so you're full of shit.

I would take your objection a lot more seriously if you were not so obviously butthurt.

And I know how a goddamn translation process works as I'm sure many people here do and I do them too, you're not a special snowflake and there's nothing remotely difficult about it. If you're translating a legal document, you need to know the law itself and string together the nonsensical retarded 20 line sentences so that the outcome is correct. When you're translating a technical text, you need to know the technical thing and the actually used words/or slang. It's not a brain surgery.

Well here you are just showcasing your ignorance. Translating technical documents is incredibly difficult, especially in cases where the language for describing certain technical terms does not exist in the target language (for example, in Arabic, where there is currently a huge gap between technical terms vis a vis English.) You simply do not know what you're talking about.

What's far more difficult is translating an artistic text. I'm not saying that a conversation about dwarf tits is an art but there are certain things involved that are up to the translator to make read and look good instead of blindly juxtaposing one technical term for another. Yeah, I often read many games don't even have an editor which is stupid. But I think you're underestimating what it takes to make a good translation.

Not really. There are millions of people fluent in multiple languages who routinely translate shit. We are not talking about the fucking Odyssey here. We are, as you so rightly admit, talking about dwarf tits. The actual translation from Polish to English could have been done by any number of qualified people. But it is apparent that they never bothered to use a competent editor after the fact. Once again, translation is not simply the work of one person.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Technical translations are far easier than translating a literature or anything resembling an art, so you're full of shit.

hue

huehuehue

HUEHUEHUEHUEHUE

 

[Necroscope]

Translating anything of professional nature takes way more knowledge than translating a typical text (about, say, fishing), hence subjects like "English for lawyers" at universities. I can imagine it's similar with any technical jargon.

 

[Cadmus]

Translating anything of professional nature takes way more knowledge than translating a typical text (about, say, fishing), hence subjects like "English for lawyers" at universities. I can imagine it's similar with any technical jargon.

Yes, it takes knowledge but does not require much artistic input from you, hence you can basically translate it with tons of work and a dictionary, but translating an artistic text takes a different skill set altogether.

 

[Necroscope]

but translating an artistic text takes a different skill set altogether.

Indeed.

 

[Lemon]

I would argue it's pretty hard to find a good translation. As Lemon said, translations are hard, it doesn't matter whether they are "fucking cheap".

And there's certainly a difference between translating technical writing (which may require a certain expertise of its own) and prose.

 

[Haba]

TRANSLATING is easy
EDITING is hard

 

[toro]

That's one stupid bird.

 

[WhiteGuts]

+

=

Spoiler

What am I doing with my life

 

[norolim]

Technical translations are difficult, because you need to know/invent vocabulary and have at least average knowledge of the subject field. The language used in such texts is, on the other hand, rather easy, both grammatically and structurally. Once you learn how to write a good MSDS or user manual in your target language, you'll know how to write them all. It's not so with prose.

When localising dialogue lists and descriptions found in games, you not only translate, you also interpret (not in the sense of oral translation). The language used is not as tight as in the case of technical texts. The structures are more complex and usually convey much more than just the basic level of meaning. When translating, you have to make sure that the target is not only accurate in terms of content, grammar and vocabulary but also in terms of mood, intention, effect on the reader, dialogue flow etc. (and trust me, it's all especially difficult, when the client sends you an .xls with scrambled dialogue lines and no context).

I've done lots of both technical texts and games, and I would never take a job to translate a game into English, because it's not my native language. I have a pretty good command of it, but I did not learn it by exposure (the way children learn languages). Therefore, I'll never be as good in it as a native speaker. And this, I think, was the main problem with W1 translation: it was done by Polish translators and was never read by (competent) editors, who use English as their native language.

 

[DalekFlay]

I've done lots of both technical texts and games, and I would never take a job to translate a game into English, because it's not my native language. I have a pretty good command of it, but I did not learn it by exposure (the way children learn languages). Therefore, I'll never be as good in it as a native speaker. And this, I think, was the main problem with W1 translation: it was done by Polish translators and was never read by (competent) editors, who use English as their native language.

Indeed.

It's little things sometimes, that stand out like a big flashing light to native speakers. You're obviously extremely good at English as a second language, but even in your post above a ton of little things clue me in to the fact you're not a native speaker. Stuff like "a pretty good command of it" and "as good in it as a native." I'm not mocking your skill at ALL, but as a native speaker this stuff stands out. There is a ton of it all over The Witcher, and some sections have much worse, and it's all very distracting. Also the whole editing issue mentioned before, where lines don't see to link up well or at all. You can get the gist of everything and I completed the game, but it harms the whole story and feel of the game for me for sure.

 

[Infinitron]

Due to the structural issues I mentioned, I suspect that Witcher 1's dialogue is awkward even in the original Polish. Unfortunately, I have no way of verifying this.

I also forgot to mention those NPCs whose dialogue didn't really make sense/didn't "flow" logically if you didn't click your dialogue options from top to bottom.

 

[Storyfag]

Due to the structural issues I mentioned, I suspect that Witcher 1's dialogue is awkward even in the original Polish. Unfortunately, I have no way of verifying this.

I also forgot to mention those NPCs whose dialogue didn't really make sense/didn't "flow" logically if you didn't click your dialogue options from top to bottom.

Yes, these issues do exist in the original Polish too. They are not severe, however. Also, I would like to point out that an NPC refusing to talk to you until you leave the area and return is not a bug, but a feature. That is: this is done on pupose when you insult an NPC or when you need to give it some time to finish a task for you.

 

[Infinitron]

Yes, these issues do exist in the original Polish too. They are not severe, however. Also, I would like to point out that an NPC refusing to talk to you until you leave the area and return is not a bug, but a feature. That is: this is done on pupose when you insult an NPC or when you need to give it some time to finish a task for you.

It doesn't always happen like that, though. And even so, it's a silly feature - never said it was a bug.

 

[norolim]

"a pretty good command of it" and "as good in it as a native."

No offence taken. What would a native speaker say for the parts you quoted?

It doesn't always happen like that, though. And even so, it's a silly feature - never said it was a bug.

It's not a silly feature, intrinsically. It forces you to choose your dialogue options carefully, because you know, that if you offend someone, they might not sell you that sword you want. It's the implementation, that was sometimes a little problematic. It wasn't always clear that a given dialogue option may, e.g. be offensive for an NPC.

 

[Perkel]

huh. As far as i remember CD PROJECT RED never did translation of TW1 themselves. Atari did that. They got more or less final work from CPR THEY BUTCHERED IT and then they sent it out to VAs.

Then CPR noticed this shit and got their final work before butchering back into game ( now EE edition). Still it was not their job to do that since they were not distributor of game for US (or other parts of world).

This is why you use publishers and distributors. D/P mostly deal with localization and sells game on market they know.

CD PROJECT (NOT RED) is polish publisher of games like Baldurs Gate 2 and their work on polish version of it was funfucking tastic to point where english V actors in comparison (aside from 1 or 2) were bunch of amateurs with totally shit quality of recordings.

Now if ATARI would actually put some work behind their job instead of butchering script to keep cost down you would get good game script.

In polish both TW1 and TW2 has absolutely stellar script and performance of actors was out of scale (especially for characters like zoltan or jaskier(dendisomething in eng version).

 

[DalekFlay]

"a pretty good command of it" and "as good in it as a native."

No offence taken. What would a native speaker say for the parts you quoted?

No need for an 'a' in the first one, "I have pretty good command of it." Second one would be "as good AT it," not "in it." Simple stuff, but as an English teacher it's a red flag.

 

[Modron]

Is the removal of the a from that sentence really proper english? Kind of sounds somewhat along the line of fire hot without it there.

 

[WhiteGuts]

"What is good english"

 

[Jugashvili]

Simple stuff, but as an English teacher it's a red flag.

Weren't you scarred for life from having taught attempted to teach English in Tbilisi? Now that takes courage.

 

[Ptosio]

Due to the structural issues I mentioned, I suspect that Witcher 1's dialogue is awkward even in the original Polish. Unfortunately, I have no way of verifying this.

Maybe, but the dialogue lines themselves were one of the best I encountered in video-gaming. Some things could have sounded "weird" for average person but this stemed from the specific style of Sapkowski's prose which they'd imitated pretty well. Plus, if I remember the interviews/diaries correctly, what we had in game resulted from the changes made by the voice-actors/director during the final recording when they altered everything that turned out sounding odd when actually spoken. No wonder the butchered English script was shit in comparison.

TBH I consider most aspects of the Witcher games mediocre to ok-ish; it's the dialogues where the game really shines.