Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

[aweigh]

agreed 100%

 

[Lady_Error]

In practical terms: "To see the consequences of your choices, buy the next game".

The main C&C is deciding whether to join the Umpani or the T'Rang against the other. And of course the four different endings.

Other than that, you can count the reputation among the different races as C&C. If you kill an NPC of a certain race, other NPC's of the same race (eg. shop keepers) will stop doing business with you or even attack you.

 

[Gimble]

I prefer the choices and consequences I found delving deeper than I should or risking opening a chest than what I find with Bioware dialogue wheels, but that's just me.

Where did Bioware come into this conversation and that too as an example of C&C?

What you state is true for any good dungeoun crawler - nothing specific to wizardry. In fact, wizardry 1-5 are even better examples of those criteria than 6-8.

The main C&C is deciding whether to join the Umpani or the T'Rang against the other. And of course the four different endings.

Other than that, you can count the reputation among the different races as C&C. If you kill an NPC of a certain race, other NPC's of the same race (eg. shop keepers) will stop doing business with you or even attack you.

Fair enough. Faction reputation is the basic C&C template and Wiz7 did it reasonably well. It makes little difference to the plot or the main quest who you are allied with though, as only the final choice counts for the ending and wiz8 start.

 

[aweigh]

basic c&c template is the character and attribute development system mechanic with additive of party and resource management. it's what makes an RPG an RPG and gives the player tools with which to define their role during the game's conflict resolution.

it's the primary, and most basic, role-playing tool lifted straight from table-top and onto the video game medium.

factions are definitely part of the RPG template, and obviously contribute to what codexers consider "c&c", but they're far, very far from being fundamental.

 

[Gimble]

basic c&c template is the character and attribute development system mechanic with additive of party and resource management. it's what makes an RPG an RPG and gives the player tools with which to define their role during the game's conflict resolution.

it's the primary, and most basic, role-playing tool lifted straight from table-top and onto the video game medium.

factions are definitely part of the RPG template, and obviously contribute to what codexers consider "c&c", but they're far, very far from being fundamental.

We are just talking different abstractions. The character systems and how it impacts the gameplay is the basic template of an RPG itself (and what you are calling C&C). Games that adhere to a well designed ruleset and appliy it across the board to all characters will satisfy that criteria. The C&C referred to here is at a higher level of abstraction in the sense of how the game provides interactivity where (optional) actions of the characters/party actually make a significant impact on progression/world/story/etc.

 

[aweigh]

yes, branching content has been around in video games for a long time, most notably in the adventure game genre.

 

[Gimble]

Crusaders of the Dark Savant has wonderful story, a tale of unraveling cosmic mysteries and altering the course of the future, one which arcs across two adventures. The choices made about what factions to help and how you end the game would have ramifications ten years later in Wizardry 8. Not many RPGs that focus on narrative choice and consequences can boast as much.

Are you trying to tell me that wizardry 7 is one of the best games of all time, probally the best RPG ever, with fun combats and leveling system, and, because of that, I should immediately immerse myself in this world, albeit my lack of experience in the wizardry series ?

Have you played other turn based dungeon crawlers before? Wiz7 is not a recommended first game for someone new to the genre.

 

[cvv]

I am playing wiz 7, and I am liking it, especially the mapping and combat parts.

If you're an PnPfag then disregard but otherwise there's a phenomenal automap mod by Kori Tama that opens a new window with a permanent automap so you don't have to fiddle with the clunky UI everytime you wanna check the map (you have to play the game in a windowed mode ofc).

There's also a "Mad God mod" that fixes some bugs in the original game (some pretty serious IMHO like some weapons doing double damage against certain monsters and such), adds new weapons and mobs and makes a few changes to fundamental mechanics of the game (all optional). Highly recommended.

 

[Gimble]

No. And I tryed a lot to like isles of terra and world of xeen, but, unfortunately, I didnt liked them. I dont want to play any M&M game for now.

I am playing wiz 7, and I am liking it, especially the mapping and combat parts. If I find some difficulty, I will play wiz 1, 5 or 6, then.

oh, looks like you are fine then. You dont have to complete or even like those other games, just that prior gameplay 'experience'/'mileage' should be good for wiz7. Although I would recommend trying out 6 before 7 though. Wiz 1-5 are even more hardcore.

 

[octavius]

I wouldn't say 1-2 are especially hardcore. They are the easiest ones of 1-7.

 

[Gimble]

I meant in terms of mechanics. While the individual battles may be easier in the earlier games, other aspects like limited saving/resting make it more risky, and hence 'hardcore'.

 

[aweigh]

only wizardry game that i would consider "hard core" is wiz 4, though i agree that playing them "as intended" and not backing up saves is indeed plenty hard core.

but even that is mitigated by the fact that in real wizardry games there is no failure state, as even an annihilated party can be resurrected with gear intact.

 

[Gimble]

only wizardry game that i would consider "hard core" is wiz 4.

Its all relative to previous experience with similar games. Wiz 6-8 more hardcore than M&M. Wiz 1-5 more hardcore than Wiz 6-8, etc.

 

[aweigh]

indeed... i remember my first time playing a wizardry scenario i didn't know that pressing the "backpedal" movement key made you turn around instead of stepping backwards...

lol, i got "lost" in one of the first rooms i entered because i kept pressing the backpedal key and turning around and not realizing it; i couldn't get my bearings enough so that i could find the door back out.

 

[octavius]

MM1 and 2 are more hardcore than Wiz 1-2, but Wiz 3-7 are more hardcore than MM3-7.

 

[cvv]

CCV, I would never rip off the mapping part. NEVER.

And I dont like to change the games mechanics in my 1st playthroughs. Your tip was gross, man.

Wtf are you talking about dude? All the map mod does is make your automap permanently on-screen, instead of you having to go through the menu and call it up manually every time. It's still the same damn automap.
As for the mechanics fair enough but I said it's optional.

 

[Grauken]

Wiz6 is quite short, but it depends on how well you know the game. Not sure exactly about playtime first time through, maybe 20 to 30 hours

 

[aweigh]

wiz 5 is longer than wiz 6 as it has more content, more npcs, more puzzles, more dungeons. highly recommended.

hard to say how much longer though as no version comes with an in-game clock. i remember my first playthrough of the PSX remake took me a while, longer than 20 hours for sure, and subsequent playthroughs (snes and PC98) were much shorter but I already had the game mapped out.

 

[Gimble]

Wiz 6-8 is a single storyline that doesn't require prior game context (other than TB dungeon crawling experience). Wiz6 gameplay is similar to Wiz7. Since you mentioned you want more than just dungeon crawling, it is recommended to play in that sequence (even though the story may be cliched, it is quite enjoyable nonetheless). Wiz6 and 7 share a similar character system - the baseline of 6 is expanded in 7. Wiz6 is more focused on the castle setting and hence much shorter than Wiz7. What I particularly liked about Wiz6 was the game will trick you into a different ending if you don't pay attention. Importing a wiz6 save will also make Wiz7 start a little better, especially since the itemization of Wiz7 is such that all the stuff that is significantly better than initial equipment is stuffed into the last 25% of the journey.

Wiz5 plays somewhat differently. It has some continuity from Wz3 iirc but it can be played standalone.

 

[aweigh]

wiz 6 is also a much better game than wiz 7, so i would also recomend playing it if only because of that.

 

[aweigh]

Video of me playing the PS3 exclusive Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls on PS3 emulator:


I've read, and heard from knowledgable peeps like Courtier that the game isn't very good. From the very little I've played of it on emulator I can't say for sure yet, but It's looking like a super low-budget, low-effort Wiz-clone in the most derogatory sense; little-to-nothing added or tweaked to shape the experience, coasting on not-that-great Dungeon layouts, and lacking all of the stuff that has been added to the Wizardry series over the years:

- it lacks races beyond the ones found in classic Wiz (this isn't really that big of a deal, though)

- it lacks (AFAIK) some type of weapon enchantment system, something which was introduced in Wizardry Gaiden 6: Prisoner of the Battles in 2005-2006

- it lacks the Item Trading system introduced in Wiz Empire series where the shop-keeper will have a billboard with the items he's looking for (at that moment), and if you have one of the items you can exchange them with him in return for another item that's "randomly" selected (from tiers, though, so it's not really random).

- it lacks the (AFAIK) Alchemy and Psionics spell-schools introduced in Wiz 6 by Bradley and adopted into the Wiz Gaiden and Wizardry Empire series

- it lacks classes beyond the standard ones from classic Wiz... and that particularly sucks because both Gaiden and Empire series have tons of classes, some cherry-picked from Bradley's Wiz 6 and 7, and some new like the Ranger/Archer in Wizardry Empire series, and the Monk in Wizardry Gaiden series

I've only played through the first two floors of this Dungeon of Trials and it's not looking good folks. It is very much a low-effort, low-budget and low-quality rush-job that does not capitilize on any of the best elements of Wizardry, but with the caveat that I've only barely started the 1st dungeon so... who knows, maybe it will make up for it with amazing dungeons.

(It won't, Courtier already told me).

Also I don't like that you cannot select traditional "Class Icons" for the party character's avatars. I don't like the horrendous anime style of Wiz: LoLS, it's also very much a low-effort, low-quality art work; in Wiz Empire series and in Wiz Gaiden series you can always choose to have character portraits be stylized heraldic "class" icons, like a cool throwing star symbol for Ninja, a Door + Keys for the Thief, an open book for the Bishop, etc.

I know It sounds like i'm hating on this game without having really played it but it's still Wizardry, and the formula is enjoyable as always... though I would emphatically exhort anyone looking to play a japanese Wizardry scenario to go first with the leagues better offerings of Wiz Empire 2 (PC) and Wiz Gaiden 4 (SNES), both translated by fellow codexers.

For what it's worth I think Wiz Empire 2 is the best desgined Wiz scenario out of all of them, inclujding Wiz 4 and Wiz 5 which are the high-points of the american scenarios. I've already sperged autistically about how unbelievably good Empire 2 is so I won't do it now.

 

[Darth Roxor]

dirty dumb

rapax scum



this is unrelated to the above post

 

[Dorateen]

dirty dumb

rapax scum

Trynton approves this message.

 

[megidolaon]

are Moat Monsters in first floor of Wizardry 3 supposed to be so hard to kill? playing the PlayStation version, and even with a party of lv 6+7 adventurers, these scaly critters hit hard, have tons of hitpoints, and magic fizzles frequently against them. And, of course, Running away never seems to work until half the party is already dead. I've explored every other part of the floor and there was nothing of interest to be found, so whatever is beyond the moat is probably where I have to go.

 

[octavius]

I don't recall them being that hard.
IIRC you need to go through the moat to reach the inner caster where there are stairs to the next level.

If you thought the Moat Monster were hard I look forward to hearing about your experience with the Priest of Fung.