Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

[LarryTyphoid]

Good luck with Wiz4, it's obviously very different and frustrating in new and exciting ways compared to the others.

You don't really have to worry about versions with Wiz4 at least in regards to the stupid stat bug, since you don't follow the usual mechanics for levelups and attribute changes as the other games (and honestly I'm not sure if they even count in this game for anything other than window dressing).

So far, I don't see what's supposed to be so hard about Wiz4. I mean, all you have to do is find the pentagrams to level up, so there's no grinding, and the success rate for running from battles is very high compared to Wiz1-3. Even if there's some kind of a boss fight, all you have to do is go from the pentagram, new party of summoned monsters in tow, and run from every battle to meet the boss at full strength. I've heard that there's some sort of time limit or key limit for Wiz4, but I bet you could easily start from the beginning and plan out an optimal route from the map you've already made. Maybe I'm jumping the gun, since I'm only on level 2 out of 10, but so far Wiz4 is looking to be my favorite Wizardry game so far. The mapping is my favorite part of this series so far; Wiz4 removes all that grinding garbage and leaves you with only a mapping puzzle, plus a good bit of humorous writing. Unless I hit some kind of real brick wall, Wiz4 seems like it's going to be easier to beat than the previous games. Even if there's some kind of nightmarish teleporter/turntable maze, you get an infinite use dumapic item on the first level.

Honestly, Wiz4 is so easy so far that I'm starting to get scared. What kind of terrible devilry is awaiting me in the darkness for this game to end up being harder than Wiz1-3? Can anything be as bad as both my Fighters having agility levels below 5 in Wiz3? Or teleporting into a wall in Wiz2 without backing up a save, and being forced to play all of Wiz1 again? Is Trebor's ghost gonna come out of my monitor and rip my dick off or something?

 

[Butter]

That infinite use Dumapic item has a chance to disappear on use. Also the next floor is going to try your patience in a very real way.

 

[gman42]

Honestly, Wiz4 is so easy so far that I'm starting to get scared. What kind of terrible devilry is awaiting me in the darkness for this game to end up being harder than Wiz1-3? Can anything be as bad as both my Fighters having agility levels below 5 in Wiz3? Or teleporting into a wall in Wiz2 without backing up a save, and being forced to play all of Wiz1 again? Is Trebor's ghost gonna come out of my monitor and rip my dick off or something?

Like I said, it's just frustrating in a different way. The mapping puzzles do get more nightmarish as you go up, but if that's your jam then you might not mind it. I will say that if you're only on the 2nd level up, you ain't seen nothing yet.

There are also a *lot* of puzzles that involve gathering items and using them in the right place, at least compared to the early Wiz games (not so much if you compare it to the 6/7/8 trilogy). And some of them have alternate solutions that might affect something way down the road.

The million keystroke limit thing I think is a little gimmicky, and IIRC it's damn near impossible to hit zero unless you're wandering around forever trying to figure shit out, and never going back to old saves.

 

[unseeingeye]

Just posting a link to download the most recent update to the Wizardry 6 remake in Wizardry 7 engine by dfortae, version 1.3.1: http://www.fortaeverse.com/downloads/DFortaes_Wizardry_6_Re-master_v1.3.1.zip

Been messing around with it and it is very well made. He has a spreadsheet that lists all of the items, spells etc that are added if anyone is interested, I'll link that too. All you do is download that file, unzip it and copy and paste everything into your DSAVANT folder. Works with the GOG and Steam versions for me, most likely it will even work with Wizardry Gold but I definitely don't feel like testing that out.

 

[Fowyr]

So far, I don't see what's supposed to be so hard about Wiz4

Good luck with the Land of Light and Darkness and Maze of Wandering
P.S.
Trebor sucks!
Don't forget about his shadow.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Just got to level 4 of Wiz4. I think the giant room of landmines was my first real taste into the bullshit this game can throw at you - I see what Butter was talking about. Honestly, it was so ridiculous that it made me laugh, which I think was the point. Took me maybe an hour and a half of playtime to get through it all. I didn't explore the whole thing so I bet they hid some kind of secret item in there.
I've seen a few places where you can use items, so I'm assuming you'll have to revisit a bunch of floors once you get Malor. Don't let any video game journalists get a hold of this, or they'll start calling Wiz4 a "Metroidvania".

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Wasn't the DOS version of Wiz 1 and 3 the most buggy of them all? The PSX, PC or SNES versions are more than enough. IIRC they all have english versions but there's minimal reading in these games anyway. Also, I think the SNES one swaps 2 and 3 for some reason.

 

[Fowyr]

I didn't explore the whole thing so I bet they hid some kind of secret item in there.

They are.

I've seen a few places where you can use items, so I'm assuming you'll have to revisit a bunch of floors once you get Malor.

The best (and very, very secret) ending is achievable only through Malor.

 

[gman42]

The best (and very, very secret) ending is achievable only through Malor.

I'd bitch at you for posting spoilers, but that ending is just so obscure and clearly not achievable through normal human means, so who even cares, lol.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

OK, you guys were right. On level 4 now and I'm getting pissed off. I can barely make progress using my method of saving only at pentagrams because random witches show up and kill me with Makanito all the time. Gonna have to start getting scummy with saves.

 

[gman42]

OK, you guys were right. On level 4 now and I'm getting pissed off. I can barely make progress using my method of saving only at pentagrams because random witches show up and kill me with Makanito all the time. Gonna have to start getting scummy with saves.

Of course the other issue there is that when you restore a save, the adventurer parties on that level all re-populate. So it's in your best interest to try to make it through a floor in one shot without restoring. But then you'll be like 5 steps from the stairs and Trebor starts chiming in with some "mY rEvEnGe iS aT hAnD" bullshit and yeah you're dead. Evil little game.

You have the right idea though, basically you should save every time you make progress (either by gaining a level at a pentagram or obtaining a new item) since even with the annoying level reset, they can't take those things away from you.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

I've been playing Wiz5 whenever I want to take a break from Wiz4. Man, this game is pretty good so far. As far as I know, the DOS version lacks the attribute bug of Wiz1-3. The splashes of color seen in the interface and maze makes Wiz5 look much nicer despite maintaining the wireframe graphics. The font is nicer, too. The interface errors of Wiz1-4 caused by high cycles (for example, the amount of XP received from monsters in Wiz1-3 is extremely hard to see, because with a cycle count over 1000, it appears on the screen for only a split second, unless you don't press any key on the same turn in which the final monster is killed - big pet peeve there) are solved. And you can actually manually save your game!!!
DW Bradley already brought incline to this series, even before Bane of the Cosmic Forge. Unless I run into any big difficulty spikes, I'd probably recommend Wiz5 as a newcomer's first entry into the series.

 

[bandersnatch]

Anyone heard any more news about the Wizardry 1-3 re-releases that Fig funded? I guess configuring DOS box be harder than I thought.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

One of the clues you can get from the wandering oracle in Wiz4 is "Read the Iliad lately?". This is the second game I've played that requires actual knowledge of literature to progress, the first being the Shakespeare puzzle from Silent Hill 3's hard mode. (Well, it's the third if you count pretty much all of King's Quest 1, but that doesn't really count.)

 

[BruceVC]

OK, you guys were right. On level 4 now and I'm getting pissed off. I can barely make progress using my method of saving only at pentagrams because random witches show up and kill me with Makanito all the time. Gonna have to start getting scummy with saves.

Larry, you can ask anyone on this thread but the ONLY way to play a game like Wiz4 is permadeath. That demonstrates true skill and commitment and anything else is just carebear

 

[Suissant]

One of the clues you can get from the wandering oracle in Wiz4 is "Read the Iliad lately?". This is the second game I've played that requires actual knowledge of literature to progress, the first being the Shakespeare puzzle from Silent Hill 3's hard mode. (Well, it's the third if you count pretty much all of King's Quest 1, but that doesn't really count.)

Just for curiosity's sake, what is the Silent Hill shakespearian puzzle?

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Just for curiosity's sake, what is the Silent Hill shakespearian puzzle?

You've got 5 books of Shakespeare stories, each labeled with a number from 1-5. There's a keypad with a 4 digit code that opens a locked door you need to get through. A note by the door reads:

In here is a tragedy--- art thou player or audience? Be as it may, the end doth remain: all go on only toward death.

The first words at thy left hand: a false lunacy, a madly dancing man. Hearing unhearable words, drawn to a beloved's grave--- and there, mayhap, true madness at last.

As did this one, playing at death, find true death at the last. Killing a nameless lover, she pierced a heart rent by sorrow.

Doth lie invite truth? Doth verity but wear the mask of falsehood? Ah, thou pitiful, thou miserable ones!

Still amidst lies, though the end cometh not, wherefore yearn for death? Wilt thou attend to thy beloved? Truth and lies, life and death: a game of turning white to black and black to white.

Is not a silence brimming with love more precious than flattery? A peaceful slumber preferred to a throne besmirched with blood.

One vengeful man spilled blood for two;
Two youths shed tears for three.
Three witches disappeared thusly;
And only the four keys remain.

 

[Covenant]

Just for curiosity's sake, what is the Silent Hill shakespearian puzzle?

You've got 5 books of Shakespeare stories, each labeled with a number from 1-5. There's a keypad with a 4 digit code that opens a locked door you need to get through. A note by the door reads:

In here is a tragedy--- art thou player or audience? Be as it may, the end doth remain: all go on only toward death.

The first words at thy left hand: a false lunacy, a madly dancing man. Hearing unhearable words, drawn to a beloved's grave--- and there, mayhap, true madness at last.

As did this one, playing at death, find true death at the last. Killing a nameless lover, she pierced a heart rent by sorrow.

Doth lie invite truth? Doth verity but wear the mask of falsehood? Ah, thou pitiful, thou miserable ones!

Still amidst lies, though the end cometh not, wherefore yearn for death? Wilt thou attend to thy beloved? Truth and lies, life and death: a game of turning white to black and black to white.

Is not a silence brimming with love more precious than flattery? A peaceful slumber preferred to a throne besmirched with blood.

One vengeful man spilled blood for two;
Two youths shed tears for three.
Three witches disappeared thusly;
And only the four keys remain.

Is there any additional information given? I can recognise the plays it's referring to, I think, but I'm missing how to translate that into a four-digit code. I'd try 4136 on the keypad, but I wouldn't be expecting it to work.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Is there any additional information given?

I didn't list which story is given which number. The numbered books are Romeo & Juliet, King Lear, Macbeth, Hamlet, and Othello, in that order.

I can recognise the plays it's referring to, I think, but I'm missing how to translate that into a four-digit code. I'd try 4136 on the keypad, but I wouldn't be expecting it to work.

Here's a hint: simply recognizing the plays is only the first step of the puzzle.

 

[Covenant]

Is there any additional information given?

I didn't list which story is given which number. The numbered books are Romeo & Juliet, King Lear, Macbeth, Hamlet, and Othello, in that order.

I can recognise the plays it's referring to, I think, but I'm missing how to translate that into a four-digit code. I'd try 4136 on the keypad, but I wouldn't be expecting it to work.

Here's a hint: simply recognizing the plays is only the first step of the puzzle.

Hmm...

So Othello, Romeo and Juliet, and Macbeth seem to be the ones referred to in the last four lines - that's 5, 1, and 3, based off the numbering of the books. 'Only the four keys remain'... My first thought was that this was just basically saying 'and the other number is 4', which would make the answer 5134 or 4513, but that seems too simple in retrospect. 'Remain'... Could it be that the point is that 5, 1, and 3 aren't in the code? You'd still need to eliminate two other numbers to leave yourself with four, though. Maybe four keys is a reference to King Lear or something that I'm just completely blanking on.

I like puzzles that require a bit of knowledge in other areas, but the rest of it is a bit vague for my tastes. I still think Wizardry hit its peak with puzzles in V with the Loon's watch one.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Hmm...

So Othello, Romeo and Juliet, and Macbeth seem to be the ones referred to in the last four lines - that's 5, 1, and 3, based off the numbering of the books. 'Only the four keys remain'... My first thought was that this was just basically saying 'and the other number is 4', which would make the answer 5134 or 4513, but that seems too simple in retrospect. 'Remain'... Could it be that the point is that 5, 1, and 3 aren't in the code? You'd still need to eliminate two other numbers to leave yourself with four, though. Maybe four keys is a reference to King Lear or something that I'm just completely blanking on.

You only need to eliminate one number to get four digits. You're right that the reference to four keys refers to the number of digits in the code, and is not a reference to any Shakespeare play. You also identified the plays correctly.

Here's the solution:

Spoiler

Romeo and Juliet is book 1, King Lear is book 2, Macbeth is book 3, Hamlet is book 4, and Othello is Book 5. "A false lunacy, a madly dancing man" refers to Hamlet. "As did this one, playing at death, find true death at last" refers to Romeo and Juliet. "Doth lie invite truth?" refers to Othello. "Still amidst lies, though the end cometh not, wherefore yearn for death?" refers to King Lear. "Is not a silence brimming with love more precious than flattery?" refers to Macbeth. Putting the numbers of the books in the order these verses are delivered, you're left with 41523. Now, this code must be filtered through the final verse. "One vengeful man spilled blood for two"; the vengeful Hamlet spilled blood, so the number referring to Hamlet, 4, is doubled because the blood was spilled for two: 8. "Two youths shed tears for three"; Romeo and Juliet's number, 1, is tripled: 3. "Three witches disappeared thusly"; Macbeth has 3 witches, and Macbeth's number is 3, so it is removed from the code. "And only the four keys remain"; you're left with the 4 digits you need to enter into the keypad. The final solution is 8352.

You'd need to have a lot of time on your hands to solve this one.

I still think Wizardry hit its peak with puzzles in V with the Loon's watch one.

I haven't had to deal with much in terms of puzzles quite yet in Wizardry 4 or 5. I've heard that Wizardry 7 has some pretty dirty Sierra Quest-style puzzles that can leave you unable to complete the game if you're not careful. I completed Ultima 4-7 without walkthroughs, so hopefully I'll be able to solve Bradley's Wizardry games as well.

 

[gman42]

Puzzles requiring real life knowledge can be satisfying if the subject is in your wheelhouse, and frustrating as hell if not.

Going *way* back, I remember one of the puzzles in Zork II required you to not only figure out the the weird maze you were navigating was actually a baseball field (this part was easy enough for me but I know a lot of non-American players were hopeless in figuring it out), but also know that home plate is generally in the west corner of most ballparks, so you know which compass directions to go in to round the bases and solve the puzzle.

 

[Butter]

Based JVC included the preamble to the Constitution as a puzzle in MM2 and then made Scorpia a hideous monster in 3 after she complained about it.

 

[Desiderius]

Puzzles requiring real life knowledge can be satisfying if the subject is in your wheelhouse, and frustrating as hell if not.

Going *way* back, I remember one of the puzzles in Zork II required you to not only figure out the the weird maze you were navigating was actually a baseball field (this part was easy enough for me but I know a lot of non-American players were hopeless in figuring it out), but also know that home plate is generally in the west corner of most ballparks, so you know which compass directions to go in to round the bases and solve the puzzle.

It’s in the west to avoid looking into the setting sun while batting. The pitcher has the grandstand to block it.

 

[gman42]

It’s in the west to avoid looking into the setting sun while batting. The pitcher has the grandstand to block it.

Yup. And supposedly left-handers are called "southpaws" thanks to that alignment.