Decline Thiaf Pre-Release Thread

[Esquilax]

Thing is, what made the Thief setting unique was the combination of a medieval atmosphere with dark-ages like occult stuff and Hammerite and later Mechanist steampunk technology, the visual design of which was done in a way that didn't break the medieval atmosphere but enhanced it. There wasn't even a big contrast, the themes all fit perfectly into each other, and language was used effectively to reinforce the setting, with Hammerites being all faux olde-English ('Twas probably just the sweet tingling of a boiler) and pagans speaking in their weird, slightly childish language.

There's never been a setting in a game that I've seen that could give so much depth while providing so little detail.

The magic in the setting is absolutely crucial, and without that element, it kills the setting. It all rests on the Keepers preserving the balance between a primordial order and chaos so as not to repeat the mistakes of the Precursors, so by getting rid of that element, it just isn't the same. In the first two games (but especially the first) you would always see that bizarre juxtaposition between civilization and the supernatural - this permeated pretty much everything.

Take a genius mission like The Sword: at first, you're thinking "piece of cake, another mission like Lord Bafford and Assassins, no problem", but it quickly becomes a trip through a bizarre maze of chaos and maddening architecture as you struggle to make sense of what the fuck is going on. This sense of unease happened all the time in The Dark Project.

And even when that wasn't there, there was always a seedy human element at work even in the most mundane of missions. Look at a mission like Life of the Party; on the surface there's this opulent picture of progress everywhere as you move through Angelwatch, but as you dig deeper, you notice something sinister behind that facade. The Mechanists may have moved in and changed a few things, but the City is just as grimy as it ever was.

Now they apparently took away most of the medieval atmosphere - the clothing looks more Victorian as does some of the architecture, there is more "modern" tech (like typewriters) that wouldn't really fit into the setting of TG and T2, I wonder how they want to implement the Hammerites into that setting. Previously, technology was something that only the Hammerite and Mechanist orders worked with, and when anyone wanted to have some tech stuff for his home they'd hire one of the orders to install it. Now tech seems to be more commonplace and not something that is an exclusive thing of those Builder-worshippers, which definitely trivializes the role the Hammerites have in the setting.

Oh gods I hope they're not going to do any bad things to the good old Hammerites.

Yes, the Hammerites in Thief were tolerated by the corrupt noblemen of The City only because (1) The City is a crime-ridden shithole, and the Hammerites are incorruptible zealots who are nevertheless very good at maintaining law and order with an iron fist, (2) their technological and industrial base makes them indispensable, and (3) they're basically a private army of fanatics, so you can't really fuck with them. What the devs will no doubt fuck up is that these guys aren't just zealots: they're agents of order who are probably the only honest people in The City.

What they're probably going to do is this: it's implied that this game's bad guy will be some sort of Baron, so obviously they're just going to keep the Hammerites around to serve as his intolerant, religious fundamentalist lackies. It's going to be so fucking stupid.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

That's it, I'm writing this game off as a colossal failure and a massive middle finger to the true fans of the series.

I don't get it, how can people be this stupid? When you have a franchise that hasn't seen a release in nearly 10 years, and yet has an active fanbase creating new content for it to this very day, 15 years after the franchise first started, how can anyone be so stupid as to totally and absolutely ignore the fanbase? That is exactly what's going on here. These guys have no idea what Garrett is about, let alone what Thief as a whole is all about. It's a game that lets you be an action figure, but doesn't reward you for it. It's a game that rewards players that show patience, discipline and awareness, not the players with twitch-finger reflexes and total disdain for their in-game surroundings.

They're trying to sell a game to a demographic that either wasn't present or was completely ignorant of the game when it was released. They're appealing to a market that doesn't care about the finer points of stealth, that is mostly incapable of appreciating the game 'as is'. So they change the game, try to make it seem like a possible contender to other similar titles... titles that were only designed and released because they realized that there's a market for stealth-based games... a market that was mostly created, and then subsequently heavily influenced, by a trilogy of games that set almost all the de facto standards of stealth games. Instead of leading by example, they decide to follow the current leader, even though the current leader has a rotten lemon for a brain and more swag than you could believe ever existed in the whole wide world.

 

[Pika-Cthulhu]

I dont have words for this, mess. The only thing I can equate it to is a childs imitation of a masterpiece in fingerpaint or the Jesus Fresco thing.

Its fucking, fuck, I think the milk in my coffee just soured in my stomach. Fuck this shit.

FUCK
THIS
SHIT

 

[Infinitron]

I'm not even sure if this game will have Hammerites.

That's it, I'm writing this game off as a colossal failure and a massive middle finger to the true fans of the series.

I don't get it, how can people be this stupid? When you have a franchise that hasn't seen a release in nearly 10 years, and yet has an active fanbase creating new content for it to this very day, 15 years after the franchise first started, how can anyone be so stupid as to totally and absolutely ignore the fanbase? That is exactly what's going on here. These guys have no idea what Garrett is about, let alone what Thief as a whole is all about. It's a game that lets you be an action figure, but doesn't reward you for it. It's a game that rewards players that show patience, discipline and awareness, not the players with twitch-finger reflexes and total disdain for their in-game surroundings.

They're trying to sell a game to a demographic that either wasn't present or was completely ignorant of the game when it was released. They're appealing to a market that doesn't care about the finer points of stealth, that is mostly incapable of appreciating the game 'as is'. So they change the game, try to make it seem like a possible contender to other similar titles... titles that were only designed and released because they realized that there's a market for stealth-based games... a market that was mostly created, and then subsequently heavily influenced, by a trilogy of games that set almost all the de facto standards of stealth games. Instead of leading by example, they decide to follow the current leader, even though the current leader has a rotten lemon for a brain and more swag than you could believe ever existed in the whole wide world.

Who is the current leader?

 

[Jack]

Well, anyway, back to the dark mod. Hey, do you know you can disable the light gem in the Dark Mod? I mean, if you swing that way, challenge-wise, you can do it.

I haven't even tried the dark mod yet, I've been waiting for it to go stand-alone. It looks very promising, how polished/unfinished is it currently?

 

[octavius]

This game is gonna be so awesome. We have taken away everything that made the old Thief games so slow, dull and boring to appeal to a new generation. But we will keep Garret, because he was so badass. Except we have changed him into an assassin. How cool is that?

This new Thief game is a fucking insult to the old devs. Are there no such thing as professional courtesy in the video game industry?

 

[Mortmal]

Sadly only for french codexers, this thief parody is too funny to not post :

 

[Manjuice Nutella]

Jack I think even stand-alone it will require some resources, just torrent that shit game. There's not an awful lot of missions for it though, this may or may not be subject to change in the near future, especially regarding the incoming bitterness/craving for more with Thiaf.

It's nice enough, I suppose, certainly more 'purist' than Deadly Shadows (obvious lore walkarounds aside of course) if you like literally "more of the same".

 

[SCO]

Well, anyway, back to the dark mod. Hey, do you know you can disable the light gem in the Dark Mod? I mean, if you swing that way, challenge-wise, you can do it.

I haven't even tried the dark mod yet, I've been waiting for it to go stand-alone. It looks very promising, how polished/unfinished is it currently?

Well, they need to redo a couple of meshes and their animations (zombies and 'werewolf' meshes, lots of work actually), and a few sounds. SO not all that much in absolute terms (but i actually expect it to take a lot of time, because that is the MO of mods and artists). I wouldn't wait around, doom3 is 5 eurocraps right now on flea markets everywhere, i haven't even played it, and could have probably not removed it from inventory guilt free, except its code is actually the base of the mod, so maybe not.

 

[Aldebaran]

What they're probably going to do is this: it's implied that this game's bad guy will be some sort of Baron, so obviously they're just going to keep the Hammerites around to serve as his intolerant, religious fundamentalist lackies. It's going to be so fucking stupid.

Yes, I have suspected this from the beginning as well. I can distinctly envision the Hammerites being used for nothing more than the "ha ha ha, religious people" angle. I will be greatly surprised if they are portrayed as anything more than retarded, raving lunatics, and I will be absolutely amazed if they end up working with Garret again. At the very least, it is unlikely that they will represent the in universe metaphysical concept of order/civilization since the magical elements of the series have supposedly been cut.

And I have completely written off the chance of them being right this time, as they were in both of the original Thief games.

But then, I suspect that this will be the least of my gripes with Thiaf.

 

[Insect Hordes]

Thief Reboot​

Easy Difficulty​

=========​

• Use the name and basic setting but disregard any existing continuity.​
• Steal at least 20,000,000 loot.​
• You're a corporation, not a creative entity. Don't impress anyone.​
• Get back to the safety of your own ass.​

 

[Jack]

Jack I think even stand-alone it will require some resources, just torrent that shit game. There's not an awful lot of missions for it though, this may or may not be subject to change in the near future, especially regarding the incoming bitterness/craving for more with Thiaf.

It's nice enough, I suppose, certainly more 'purist' than Deadly Shadows (obvious lore walkarounds aside of course) if you like literally "more of the same".

It's a shame about the lack of missions, I'm sad to hear that.

Well, they need to redo a couple of meshes and their animations (zombies and 'werewolf' meshes, lots of work actually), and a few sounds. SO not all that much in absolute terms (but i actually expect it to take a lot of time, because that is the MO of mods and artists). I wouldn't wait around, doom3 is 5 eurocraps right now on flea markets everywhere, i haven't even played it, and could have probably not removed it from inventory guilt free, except its code is actually the base of the mod, so maybe not.

Hmmm, alright. Looks like I know what I will be doing this weekend, thanks! Might have to re-install TDP and TMA too for good measure since I have a serious stealth craving right now and I haven't checked out the latest fan missions for a couple of years now.

 

[SCO]

For those make sure to get the 'all-in-one' patches on the Through the looking glass forums. They're stickies on the thief forum section.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

This game is gonna be so awesome. We have taken away everything that made the old Thief games so slow, dull and boring to appeal to a new generation. But we will keep Garret, because he was so badass. Except we have changed him into an assassin. How cool is that?

This new Thief game is a fucking insult to the old devs. Are there no such thing as professional courtesy in the video game industry?

No. Even when a dev is talking about an old project they themselves made before.

the only hope for a good thief game would be if the original development team were involved and they were doing through a kickstarter.

By the way, is these guys the same guys that were involved in Deus Ex Human Revolution? Because in Deus Ex, they did a prequel that was not a reboot, and the game was better than anyone could hope in today's low standards, and was at least respectful with the original. But they are taking a completely opposite direction with thief.

It's like they're making Thief: Conviction.

I didn't say anything about the garret visual before, but these new pics he looks like a emo teenager. A titless girl. And the guy in the video saying that garret has to "stand out" from the othe NPCs. Very stealthy...

 

[skacky]

This interview was hilarious. How clueless can they be? Nicolas Cantin proves once again that he cannot design characters for shit and does not even understand what Garrett is all about.

Darth Slaughter These guys didn't work on DX:HR, they're an entirely different team.

 

[Azazel]

There is clearly a man in the background of one scene in that interview who is playing the game in 3rd person. This isn't decline, this is a sinkhole opening up under a city and swallowing thousands alive, leaving them to choke to death in the ruination.

 

[~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T]

Nicolas Cantin (Game Director): In the beginning of the conception we added carte blanche¹ to completely restart a new design of Garrett. We wanted to keep the main DNA of who was Garrett, we didn't want to change that much because it was kinda working already.

Steve Gallagher (Narrative Director): To be honest my biggest inspirations from the very beginning would have been I've played the original games of course they have a sligthy different flavour, times have moved on so I mean we're not still in 1998 but the character was there.

Just a boiler, this? Or perchance something worse?

We wanted to bring in more for the modern audience of today's console market is now in the game doing more action move and that's how we wanted the costume and the suit to reflect that.

Please be warned, a misguided soul.

It was my role to art direct the team that was working on Altair, same thing that I did with Garrett. Both were character that can often feel -intelligible- we had to make them more actiony figure. Make them stand out in a crowd of NPCs when he needs to stand in the rows at the market and that people would often say oh he's too white he is too black he is standing too much but that's a good thing he needs to stand out when he is in a crowd.

YOU'VE GONE...YOU'VE GONE TOO FAR THIS TIME YOU CAMEL-MANNERED TUNIC-WEARING MOLLYCODDLE! AN ARROW IN THE THROAT OUGHT TO SHUT YOU UP!

 

[Insect Hordes]

My only real beef on the new design is the mask itself. The costume seems pretty much like what would obviously come to mind. The mask however, keeps 'em from having to conjure an iconic face. Which would have actually been difficult as opposed to having NYC poofs sewing up a bondage outfit to hang in their cafeteria. Dark Mod has a PC with a mask but I think that's more of a developmental frugality (along with avoiding legal kerfuffle). It seems like most of the work was already done. Just rip off Michael Wincott and plug in the mechanical eye. Have the fucker find wine and gold hidden in a priest's room, then spout off pithy one-liners.


Another development tip: If someone suggests a mission ending in an ineluctable scripted alarm followed by combat; forcibly remove a digit.

 

[MetalCraze]

Why the fuck would you want a thief to stand out from the crowd?

 

[Xavier0889]

Because we live in the Times of Awesome.

 

[Darth Roxor]

In the beginning of the conception we added carte blanche¹

1. French for blank card, what he is saying is that he started over from scratch.

Is anyone REALLY THAT STUPID?

This means that for Garrett a lot of the stuff that gets him out of bed in the morning

Teeth-brushing QTE

it's maybe not just a ring to him now it's what the ring may have meant before. Let's be poetic, stealing sometimes what he might not be able to have himself, because he's such an independent spirit.

'Aaah, my favourite year...', Garrett takes the wine bottle, as he reminisces of the year he found true love and took him for a romantic walk to the pagan park.



10/10 day 1 purchase

 

[Jack]

In the beginning of the conception we added carte blanche¹

1. French for blank card, what he is saying is that he started over from scratch.

Is anyone REALLY THAT STUPID?

It appears my transcription contains a few errors. Upon listening to it again he's actually saying: "In the beginning of the conception we had carte blanche to completely restart a new design of Garrett" In that context carte blanche means full authority. His thick accent made it sound like he said added when he said had.

 

[Darth Roxor]

It appears my transcription contains a few errors.

I was referring to the fact that someone needs to have that explained... and I thought that transcript was on the site itself. Why are you treating fellow codexers like idiots?

 

[MetalCraze]

Codexers are not idiots?

 

[Darth Roxor]

Also, them comments

Never got into the Thief franchise,it was just one of thoughs games i never got around too... Ill have to fix that with this release

Why not fix it with the orignal or 2 so you get the flavor of it, instead of the unproven one that may have some drastic differences, possibly for the worse?

Bought myself a PS3 for christman ive got a huge backlog of game now... ive beaten MGS:4,Uncharted 2/3 Ico/Shadow of the Colossus HD,God of War 3,Heavy Rain,Deep into Gran Turismo 5 and Journey atm,and ive still got the PS3 Ratchet & Clanks and The Last of Us comming soon... = /

And really,the first 2 Thief games are so old,im sure the gameplay would feel outdated

Sweet, got high hopes for this one. Even though I suck at stealth games.

I've never been very good at stealth games either but I am genuinely excited for this game. My problem with stealth games is I get all OCD and try to go back and try another way that'll get a different outcome. I mean, it got so bad for me with Dishonored that I only beat around two missions of the game and gave up (not because it was bad, but because the numerous options for approaching a mission overwhelmed me).

This looks interesting. I've never heard of Thief before. How long has it been around?

Has a bow, probably gonna be epic.

Problem?