Information Thorvalla Kickstarter goes online

[General Maxson]

It's really sad this won't make it. What I have seen looks really good to me so far with the updates. Even that animated dragon and hut. Looks really nice IMO.

 

[Rake]

It's really sad this won't make it. What I have seen looks really good to me so far with the updates. Even that animated dragon and hut. Looks really nice IMO.

Yes the art is nice. The problem is that not enough people have seen it. P:E and Wasteland 2 have interviews all over the place. They were the "big news"on kickstarter.Every person with an interest on kickstarter knew about them even if they were not into RPGs. If Guido asks for similar amounts of money he hes to make his game seen in a similar light

 

[thesheeep]

Well, he made multiple mistakes here:

• He completely overestimated the size of the fan base. Even back then, the RoA games were niche. And while they are great games, the fan base is still rather small, compared to other games like Wasteland, Fallout, etc. So when asked for 1,000,000$, many people probably already thought "No way this is going to make it, might as well not back it at all". Which is of course the dumbest thing to do, as it will scare away people even more, and you wouldn't lose a thing backing a project you think will not make it.
• The original games were RoA games. This one is not. I'm pretty sure that alone made many fans of the old games and RoA in general not pledge this game. Would the license really have been that costly?
• He is only known for doing the RoA games and having worked on PS:T. But what has he done in the last 10 years? Fargo and Weisman, for example, have been much more active in the industry. Or at least were more visible in that time. Unfortunately, for a sum that big, you usually have to have a big name. Or at least it makes things easier.
• No gameplay footage. Many projects are pitched with nothing but ideas shown. This is not helping, at all, as it is perceived as "Yet another dreamer with nothing to show". The demo with the dragon came much too late.
• Hard to say whose fault that is, but I haven't really seen press coverage outside of niche sites. Which would be enough for a 200k game or so, but not 1000k.

I guess I could go on like that, but basically he was kickstarting the project too early with a funding goal far too high to reach when thinking about the fan base.

 

[CSM]

But... but... Logitech mice!

 

[Gord]

Well, he made multiple mistakes here:

• He completely overestimated the size of the fan base. Even back then, the RoA games were niche. And while they are great games, the fan base is still rather small, compared to other games like Wasteland, Fallout, etc. So when asked for 1,000,000$, many people probably already thought "No way this is going to make it, might as well not back it at all". Which is of course the dumbest thing to do, as it will scare away people even more, and you wouldn't lose a thing backing a project you think will not make it.
• The original games were RoA games. This one is not. I'm pretty sure that alone made many fans of the old games and RoA in general not pledge this game. Would the license really have been that costly?
• He is only known for doing the RoA games and having worked on PS:T. But what has he done in the last 10 years? Fargo and Weisman, for example, have been much more active in the industry. Or at least were more visible in that time. Unfortunately, for a sum that big, you usually have to have a big name. Or at least it makes things easier.
• No gameplay footage. Many projects are pitched with nothing but ideas shown. This is not helping, at all, as it is perceived as "Yet another dreamer with nothing to show". The demo with the dragon came much too late.
• Hard to say whose fault that is, but I haven't really seen press coverage outside of niche sites. Which would be enough for a 200k game or so, but not 1000k.

I guess I could go on like that, but basically he was kickstarting the project too early with a funding goal far too high to reach when thinking about the fan base.

True, I'm afraid. Although I don't know about the RoA license. 1E6 dollars might be far from enough to buy the license and fund development - or it might not be available at all.
Probably still licensed exclusively to some other studio/publisher.
Well, I still backed and who knows, maybe he'll come back with another, better attempt.

 

[kaizoku]

Well... it seems Thorvalla will never see the light of day.

He looks committed on not trying again:

I am not sure where this idea comes from, folks, but restarting this project has never been an option for us. It is simply not feasible. This Kickstarter was designed to raise the funds needed to pursue the project. Without it, there won't be a project.

 

[toro]

Well... it seems Thorvalla will never see the light of day.

He looks committed on not trying again:

I am not sure where this idea comes from, folks, but restarting this project has never been an option for us. It is simply not feasible. This Kickstarter was designed to raise the funds needed to pursue the project. Without it, there won't be a project.

Without plan B, he definitely seems committed in being stupid. Or a greedy hack like Brenda and Tom.

The only chance of redemption for him is this: terminate the current campaign, select a core group of 2-3 people, build a tech demo and pitch again.

But it will never happen. Greedy hacks don't like to work.

 

[Moribund]

Without plan B, he definitely seems committed in being stupid. Or a greedy hack like Brenda and Tom.

The only chance of redemption for him is this: terminate the current campaign, select a core group of 2-3 people, build a tech demo and pitch again.

But it will never happen. Greedy hacks don't like to work.

But the guy actually make RoA series. Not worked on some part but his studio did it. And the work done in the short time is pretty amazing.

The shaker stuff was something any tard really could whip together in a few days, they gave no details of anything and everything they added in was terrible. And you don't need a million bucks to make some blobber.

The pitch and marketing is all that's been blown here.

 

[toro]

Without plan B, he definitely seems committed in being stupid. Or a greedy hack like Brenda and Tom.

The only chance of redemption for him is this: terminate the current campaign, select a core group of 2-3 people, build a tech demo and pitch again.

But it will never happen. Greedy hacks don't like to work.

But the guy actually make RoA series. Not worked on some part but his studio did it. And the work done in the short time is pretty amazing.

The shaker stuff was something any tard really could whip together in a few days, they gave no details of anything and everything they added in was terrible. And you don't need a million bucks to make some blobber.

The pitch and marketing is all that's been blown here.

True. But people change (even if wars don't .. he he).

 

[Rake]

Without plan B, he definitely seems committed in being stupid. Or a greedy hack like Brenda and Tom.

The only chance of redemption for him is this: terminate the current campaign, select a core group of 2-3 people, build a tech demo and pitch again.

But it will never happen. Greedy hacks don't like to work.

But the guy actually make RoA series. Not worked on some part but his studio did it. And the work done in the short time is pretty amazing.

The shaker stuff was something any tard really could whip together in a few days, they gave no details of anything and everything they added in was terrible. And you don't need a million bucks to make some blobber.

The pitch and marketing is all that's been blown here.

Exactly. And thats why its a pity. If only he had took two weeks time before the kickstarter started to prepare the pitch maybe the result would have been diffirent. Also he said that there is no bad blood between Obsidian and himself. If that's true why on earth he didn't contact them or inXile for support? We just lost an opportunity for a good game...

 

[jewboy]

Well if nothing else I'm sure this fiasco of a pitch will teach future projects how not to do a kickstarter.

Problems:
1. Henkel is just not very good at selling himself, his project, or his team. And why was Neal not involved? Maybe he is camera shy, and I don't blame him, but he should have been involved in some way. If anything he is more famous than Henkel. If he didn't want to be on video he could at least have done a voice over while something like BaK was shown or whatever. And he never really explained how he expected to actually make the game and what past experiences he could draw on to do so.

2. The artwork. Anime or cartoonish artwork doesn't seem to appeal to the people who liked the RoA games. The animation with the dragon should have been shown on the very first day and not as an update when it was already too little too late. And the whole dragon thing was emphasised too much. One monster or character class or type of mount doesn't a game make.

3. Not nearly enough details. About the game, the development team, or their plan once they've secured the funds.

4. The card combat system seems awful to me. I wouldn't back the game for that reason alone. While others are more amenable to being convinced of its virtues, combat was perhaps the greatest strength of the RoA games, and a major change like that is a hard sell for your very first PC game in years and your very first kickstarter campaign.

Would Guido and Neal pitch a game to a publisher with such poor attention to detail? If Henkel isn't good at selling: himself, his team, or his project, I don't know what to say. Maybe hiring a marketing person would be too expensive for what always amounts to a long shot. God knows most Americans wouldn't make a paper airplane for less than a few thousand bucks. A marketing person would probably want 10 grand just to talk to you.

 

[Moribund]

Well, if he can't do it now maybe he will retry in a couple years and detail the game system more. At least talk about if it will be 2D or 3D and what the combat will be like.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

combat was perhaps the greatest strength of the RoA games

 

[G.Henkel]

Hello everyone,

Just wanted to chime in with a few things here, and clear up some misconceptions that appear to have arisen.

First, to those that backed the Kickstarter for Thorvalla, thank you. You efforts have not gone unnoticed or unappreciated. They also have not been in vain, though I cannot go into deeper details just yet. While this Kickstarter may have indeed not been successful in raising funds, it was successful in other ways.

To the detractors: I thank you too for your opinions. They will help us make a better game. However, I give you something to consider: When Realms of Arkania was first pitched to investors, it too was something out of the ordinary. Most publishers could not comprehend the entire 'adventuring simulator' aspect of the game. All they cared about was the combat, and they could not seem to comprehend why anyone would play games where the player has a greater chance of getting killed by a disease than an orcish sword through the gut. Then take Torment, in the late 90's the very idea of a non 3D game itself was anathema, much less a non 3D game that featured little combat and that required the player to read almost an entire novel's worth of text.

Thus, taking the above into account, does it not seem silly to needlessly pass judgment on elements of Thorvalla like the Card Deck oriented combat? If developers who wanted to try something innovative in order to take the genre into bold new directions were always shot down by people who were afraid of change, or who lacked the capacity to visualize the groundbreaking elements what said developers were trying to implement, we would most likely still be staring at wire-frames on our wide screen LCDs.

Another thing to consider is that unlike some developers who cash in on the same game they made 2 decades ago to gain basically what amounts to free money, other developers prefer to try something new and risky, something that has not been done before. After all, if you want the same game that was made 2 decades ago, just play that very same game! Why shill out your hard earned money for the same damn thing? It is also a shame that those very same developers, who after getting their free money pull strings to make sure others do not succeed using the same avenues of funding, because they see new ideas from old timers as threats and challenges, instead of something the entire industry can aspire to.

Thanks to those who donated once more, and I hope I have allayed some fears and given fans hope for a bright dawn sure to arise.

-G.Henkel

 

[Crooked Bee]

Users posting from the same IP as post #546
AngryKobold (Nov 22, 2012)
G.Henkel (Today)
Country: Anonymous Proxy

 

[General Maxson]

Thanks bee, you saved me form embarrassment.

 

[Brother None]

I was hoping that was not for real. Shooting down the very people you should be trying to pitch to, asking us to accept something just because it's unconvential (we don't have to like/support every idea just because it's something different), and ranting some weird conspiracy theory about devs sabotaging this project. That's...oh boy...

Anyway, fake. Good!

 

[Zed]

Users posting from the same IP as post #546
AngryKobold (Nov 22, 2012)
G.Henkel (Today)
Country: Anonymous Proxy

AFAIK we don't take impersonations lightly. especially not of developers.
this could be anyone using a proxy service that AngryKobold has happened to use.
it could also be that AngryKobold is an alt, and so is this.
could also be a third party impersonating henkel.

it could also be henkel, but it's unlikely, as he has never signed off with "-G.Henkel" before.

 

[Crooked Bee]

It's pretty much obviously fake, in my opinion. I would happily nuke or at least discourage AngryKobold for this, but luckily for him anyone can use an open proxy so I can't say for sure whether it's his alt or not.

 

[HobGoblin42]

He already posted here with a different account:
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?members/guido-henkel.15917

So, I guess this "G.Henkel" is definitely a fake.

 

[Gakkone]

Cancelled.

 

[Gord]

Just received the project update mail...
Too bad, really.

I was hoping that was not for real. Shooting down the very people you should be trying to pitch to, asking us to accept something just because it's unconvential (we don't have to like/support every idea just because it's something different), and ranting some weird conspiracy theory about devs sabotaging this project. That's...oh boy...

Anyway, fake. Good!

Don't know whether G.Henkel is Guido Henkel or not, but I don't see what you are saying here in his post.

 

[Brother None]

Cancelled.

Inevitably. Too bad. Wish they would consider trying again later.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[General Maxson]