TOEE is orgasmic

[Roguey]

Temple+ and Co8 w/o New Content is just vanilla + bugfixes and some minor quality of life stuff

It isn't.

Standard versions contain mainly bugfixes, rules compliance modifications, AI tweaks, and content restoration, in addition to a few actual mods like the Rannos and Gremag revenge scenario and the Moathouse Ambush. These are 'mini-mods' compared to the major expansions, and we include them in the standard modpack because we don't feel they significantly impact the balance of the game, and because our longterm feedback indicates that over time, they have become considered part and parcel with the basic game. Many players don't even know that they are mods.

Arrogant modders. In addition to that, it makes all sorts of changes to AI and monster abilities.

The vanilla experience is really just ToEE with patch 1 and 2. 3.0.4 adds a negligible amount of new items and restores the brothel and children. Temple Plus adds a lot of convenience and new features

I've never progresses passed level 2 and if I'm going to have to go through that damn hub after an hour of character creation I'm just going to drop the game again.

If taking on the frogs and bandits is unfeasible for you (killing them will bring you up to level 2) just use the console to cheat yourself up to level 2. It's no big deal.

 

[Max Damage]

I mean, vanilla enemies don't even bother to wake up allies from sleep, but ok. I guess running through doors, casting from scrolls without provoking AoO, not being able to craft items despite having required spells and classes, and monsters spawning inside walls - some people can't give up such unforgettable untainted vanilla experience.

 

[Dorateen]

Temple of Elemental Evil has a larger party and a more robust implementation of the 3.5 ruleset (naturally, being an officially licensed D&D product).

But Knights of the Chalice has better encounter design and is a more thorough adventure.

 

[anvi]

KOTC is one of my favorite games ever! I couldn't believe such a small indie game could be so good. But I love TOEE too. I love overcoming the brutal early levels and seeing my party become all powerful. Also most of the stuff I hate (exploring towns) can be fixed with SpeedHack from Cheat Engine. It is amazing, you can run across an entire town in 2 seconds. I think the Hommlet would still be a bit of a chore, but not too bad because most of it is running around and at this speed it would be ok. I cringed when I visited the town of Nulb because I hate having to visit all the various places, but again with speedhack, I visited everywhere and talked to everyone in about 10 minutes. Really amazing. It also makes combat much faster too. I rarely use it in combat, but at the start of a battle if a dozen enemies just need to run over to your party, you can make that enemy turn go by in 1 second

I think for a first time player it would be best to go with vanilla game and Temple+. I am happy with CO8 for this run through because it is my third time playing so I don't mind some half baked new ideas. So far anyway..

 

[Max Damage]

Temple of Elemental Evil has a larger party and a more robust implementation of the 3.5 ruleset (naturally, being an officially licensed D&D product).

But Knights of the Chalice has better encounter design and is a more thorough adventure.

True. My big hope for KotC2 is to have more classes, KotC is one of my all time favorites but Fighter/Cleric/Mage is a very limited choice (and, since there's no multiclassing, pretty biased against fighters). If KotC2 builds enough upon very solid core of KotC, it'll be among my favorite sequels of all time
anvi I think I may use a speedhack for Hommlet quests next time. As pretty the village is to look at, it really can use some of that digital Haste magic.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Also most of the stuff I hate (exploring towns) can be fixed with SpeedHack from Cheat Engine. It is amazing, you can run across an entire town in 2 seconds.

Do you know that you can teleport to any part of town via the signposts in Homlet, Nulb and later Verbobonc ?

 

[Sitra Achara]

FYI

1. You can alter running speed in Temple+ through the console->Cheats->Speedup
2. There's a little known Co8_config.ini file that allows you to turn off some of the new plots that are included in Co8 Standard. In Temple+ you have to move it to the main ToEE folder however. (otherwise Co8 installs it inside ToEEroot/modules)
Also it only affects new games (the script is triggered by the shopmap portal).

Alternatively via console set

game.global_vars[450] |= 1

To disable them.
To pick and choose individual ones:

Spoiler

Target of Revenge (Hommlet Traders revenge scenario)
game.global_vars[450] |= 2**10

Moathouse Ambush (The moathouse ambush after killing Lareth)
game.global_vars[450] |= 2**11

Arena of Heroes (The ethereal arena that appears after the Moathouse chapter )
game.global_vars[450] |= 2**12

Reactive Temple (Temple factions taking up defensive positions based on certain triggers, like killing opposing faction leaders without being in their employ)
game.global_vars[450] |= 2**13

 

[Max Damage]

Yeah, those help too, definitely one of the best features of Co8 along with Temple map quick travel between floors.

 

[anvi]

Also most of the stuff I hate (exploring towns) can be fixed with SpeedHack from Cheat Engine. It is amazing, you can run across an entire town in 2 seconds.

Do you know that you can teleport to any part of town via the signposts in Homlet, Nulb and later Verbobonc ?

Yea the signpost helps a lot, but I have some sort of phobia of virtual exploring. Like when you run down a long path, then have to click a door, then go into a building and pixel hunt for any containers, find it is completely empty. Then you have to click the door again, and run back along the same path and repeat the process for some other door. It makes me

But speedhack reduces every aspect of that (except the loading screen) by about 500%. There are a bunch of games I play now that I just wouldn't bother playing without speedhack. This one, then I am gonna play Underrail which is another one, and then I am gonna play Subnautica which needs speedhack more than anything.

But yeah, signposts, temple+ and speedhack makes this game quite swift!

 

[anvi]

A thread without a screenshot is like a threat without violence.

I made my team of badasses pose just for you.

My screen is 2560x1080, but everything is too small at that resolution, so I have it set to something lower. It maybe loses a bit of definition but I prefer to be able to see what's going on

 

[anvi]

A thread without a screenshot is like a threat without violence.

I made my team of badasses pose just for you.

My screen is 2560x1080, but everything is too small at that resolution, so I have it set to something lower. It maybe loses a bit of definition but I prefer to be able to see what's going on

That image host sucked, this one is crisper:

Spoiler

 

[anvi]

Wow I just got rekt by a random encounter of 3 ettins They hit so hard they killed 3 of my characters dead before I even got a turn. Tried a few times and the result was mostly the same. Had to load a save and avoid the fight. Feelsbad.

 

[Cryomancer]

My unique ToEE critique. No tier 6~9 spells.

But i really think that ToEE is an amazing game.

 

[Roguey]

I mean, vanilla enemies don't even bother to wake up allies from sleep, but ok.

One would have to ask Tim Cain if this was intended design. After all, they don't do such things in other D&D crpgs.

(sure it's fine as an optional rule for people who want more challenge)

 

[anvi]

My unique ToEE critique. No tier 6~9 spells.

But i really think that ToEE is an amazing game.

Imagine a sequel of this game which is higher level! It would be the best thing to ever happen.

 

[anvi]

Speaking of which, I made level 5, slaughtered Emready Meadows and the place north of Nulb with the croc and stuff. It is now time....

 

[Max Damage]

One would have to ask Tim Cain if this was intended design. After all, they don't do such things in other D&D crpgs.

(sure it's fine as an optional rule for people who want more challenge)

After playing KotC, it just feels plain wrong when enemies don't try to do the most obvious action and wake up downed ally. I don't think that makes the spell useless, just makes it (and Deep Slumber) less stupidly OP. As much as I appreciate Tim Cain's effort, author's intent =/= best way to play by default, especially when it comes to very uneven games like ToEE. I like the combat system and graphics of vanilla, but encounter design and many other things leave one unsatisfied, probably why people want to mod in better AI/difficulty/QoL changes. It's not the game I'd personally recommend to play as it is, Co8 and Temple+ really elevate the whole experience that vanilla was aiming for to way better extend.

 

[Sitra Achara]

I mean, vanilla enemies don't even bother to wake up allies from sleep, but ok.

One would have to ask Tim Cain if this was intended design. After all, they don't do such things in other D&D crpgs.

(sure it's fine as an optional rule for people who want more challenge)

KotC has it. It's also clearly stated in the sleep spell description. And other dnd games should only be used as positive examples

 

[anvi]

I had some enemies that heal their downed buddies which is pretty cool. I cleared out a few wings of the temple already, pretty easy. I love it though, feels good to be tough for a change, and I know there are some deadly fights coming up. Not sure what to do with all my money, I haven't bought a single item yet. All my gear is looted.

ALSO I just discovered there is a little arrow next to the face of the mob's corpse you are looting, and it selects the next corpse nearby! I wish I noticed it earlier, it makes looting a bunch of corpses 100 times faster. I can now loot a mountain of corpses, fill up all my inventories, whiz back to town with speedhack, and then sell all my gear with alt-click, all really fast and easy! Makes this game so much more fun for me.

 

[Tito Anic]

Definitely best D&D RPG and it has permadeath mode!

 

[Max Damage]

anvi gold is mostly for crafting scrolls/wand/wondrous items/magic weapons&armor/potions etc. if you've got the feats, spells and levels required. Vendors have almost nothing good in stock, and what they have is pretty damn overpriced even with Appraise, so I'd advice you to spend some cash and xp on crafting. Also, Mother Schreng in Nulb has some magic tattoos for you to spend cash on. Otherwise, best items I found is +4 dexterity gloves in Nulb's tavern and Burne's magic scrolls to learn wizard spells from. Co8 also adds masterwork weapons for sale, and you can buy composite bows from carpenter.

 

[Roguey]

After playing KotC, it just feels plain wrong when enemies don't try to do the most obvious action and wake up downed ally. I don't think that makes the spell useless, just makes it (and Deep Slumber) less stupidly OP. As much as I appreciate Tim Cain's effort, author's intent =/= best way to play by default, especially when it comes to very uneven games like ToEE. I like the combat system and graphics of vanilla, but encounter design and many other things leave one unsatisfied, probably why people want to mod in better AI/difficulty/QoL changes. It's not the game I'd personally recommend to play as it is, Co8 and Temple+ really elevate the whole experience that vanilla was aiming for to way better extend.

As I said, modding games to your tastes is fine but that's not the vanilla what-the-game-designers-intended experience which is what some people want.

 

[gurugeorge]

I was always a big fan of this game, but here's a wee PSA: the new Turn-Based Combat mod for Pathfinder: Kingmaker really gives a lot of the "feel" of ToEE. It's quite amazing really. If you ever hankered after another D&D-style turn-based game on modern graphics steroids, 'tis well worth a look.

 

[Max Damage]

As I said, modding games to your tastes is fine but that's not the vanilla what-the-game-designers-intended experience which is what some people want.

And as I said before, I consider mods that enhance the vanilla experience to be the way to go. I got your point already, if you want to argue the bugfixes and obvious exploits removal ruin first time playthrough - that's fine, but not what many people will agree with; and since you didn't take part in the delevopment, you don't get to speak for authors. The only one arrogant here is you.

 

[Morality Games]

What I like about Co8 is that it gives you an alternative quest for the beginning so you can skip Hommlet.

Valid, although I compare Hommlet's incorporation into the PC adaptation of a Temple of Elemental Evil to a great art film. I wouldn't want to watch one everyday, but it's an interesting reproduction of the early stages of an open-environment tabletop game scenario where the Dungeon Masters puts players in a village and forces them to find out what is going on by interacting with a bunch of peasants. Essentially, most of the Hommlet quests are just dealing with mundane aspects of country village life.

It is one of the ways where the Temple of Elemental Evil is the closest you can possibly get into a video game to real life pen and paper D&D experience (for better or for worse).