Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[IHaveHugeNick]

Even though I think Pillars would've been better without the stronghold, with Od Nua spread out over a bunch of locations and integrated into the story, with fewer classes, and definitely without those godawful backer NPCs, I think they made the right call: they owned their mistakes from the start, delivered what they promised, and resolved to do better next time.

Big disagree.

A mega dungeon in an RPG like that shouldn't be "spread out" nor should it be "integrated into the story". The purpose of the dungeon is to be a place where there is great exploration, a chance to flex your party's muscle in combat and be a side venture, i.e. an "optional" mega-dungeon to explore that isn't story-related.

And fewer classes? Why on Earth would anyone want that?

Eh, I think the game in it's entirety would be unquestionably better if Od Nua was spread into, say, five 3-story dungeons all over the map, or something of the sort. Having so much content packed in one place is just not healthy.

I have a love-hate relationship with Od Nua. I love doing it, but there just isn't a good time in the game to do it. Go too early and stay too long and you risk overleveling the rest of the game. But if you go too late, you will be overleveling most of Od Nua.

I had a friend who didn't bother reading some of the ingame conversations, so he ended up thinking Od Nua is a main quest. He kept doing it until floor 7-8 while still in Act 1. By the time we told him there's a whole world to explore out there, he came out of Od Nua so overleveled and overgeared with unique items, the rest of the game became a snoozefest and he basically ruined entire playthrough for himself.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Eh, I think the game in it's entirety would be unquestionably better if Od Nua was spread into, say, five 3-story dungeons all over the map, or something of the sort. Having so much content packed in one place is just not healthy.

I have a love-hate relationship with Od Nua. I love doing it, but there just isn't a good time in the game to do it. Go too early and stay too long and you risk overleveling the rest of the game. But if you go too late, you will be overleveling most of Od Nua.

I had a friend who didn't bother reading some of the ingame conversations, so he ended up thinking Od Nua is a main quest. He kept doing it until floor 7-8 while still in Act 1. By the time we told him there's a whole world to explore out there, he came out of Od Nua so overleveled and overgeared with unique items, the rest of the game became a snoozefest and he basically ruined entire playthrough for himself.

Five 3-story dungeons all over the map means they either have to be linear as to when you approach them (i.e. I'm in Zone A and now must do Zone A's dungeon), or they have to add level-scaling to take into account people like your friend.

With Od Nua, at least you can go deep, hit a very tough challenge (i.e. go back the way you came and get stronger, guy!) take a breather and come back later.

Maybe it should just be located near the end of the game instead. Reminds me of Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together's 100 floor mega-dungeon near the end of the game.

In any event, they should avoid level-scaling, IMO, but perhaps give clearer instructions as to how far you "should" go on one dive. But then again I sometimes think optional dungeons should be "mandatory" to get strong enough to progress, at least on harder difficulties (i.e. make it seem like you have a choice, but if you try other challenges ahead you actually do have to do one, or two "optional" dungeons or side quests. Like in Morrowind when Caius tells you to go and get stronger before tackling the main quest. Which RPG would even do that today, by the way?)

 

[Lurker King]

The purpose of the dungeon is to be a place where there is great exploration

Just as any strech goald, the purpose of old nua was to hype players beyond measure. It was sucessful in this aspect.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Just as any strech goald, the purpose of old nua was to hype players beyond measure. It was sucessful in this aspect.

Did it? I did enjoy exploring it and thought it was a pretty well-done dungeon. The stronghold left some stuff to be desired, but the idea has good potential, IMO.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

If the dungeon is good, make it as big as you can I say.

Shit all the content required for a good RPG is a well designed dungeon. We haven't had a well designed huge dungeon in a very long time. (RT blobber puzzle games don't fucking count).

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

If the dungeon is good, make it as big as you can I say.

Shit all the content required for a good RPG is a well designed dungeon. We haven't had a well designed huge dungeon in a very long time. (RT blobber puzzle games don't fucking count).

I salute you for the idea that one huge and well-designed dungeon is all you need for an RPG, lol.

I think there's some fun dungeons in Elminage Gothic, if you like nefarious, evil Wizardry-style maze-like dungeons. Obviously older RPGs have some. What are some good ones in recent RPGs? The Witch's Lair (not sure if that's the official name, might be Empire of the Witch Queen) in The Quest is pretty dope.

 

[Roguey]

By the time we told him there's a whole world to explore out there, he came out of Od Nua so overleveled and overgeared with unique items, the rest of the game became a snoozefest and he basically ruined entire playthrough for himself.

Working as designed. If you can go that deep, that's your reward. Grognards love it.

 

[vortex]

What about voluminous codex to be integrated as lore highlights dictionary log ? Maybe as future update. Similar as it was in Tyranny.
TTON has more words than Bible and keeping up with all Numenera terms could be hard for newcomers.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

What about voluminous codex to be integrated as lore highlights dictionary log ? Maybe as future update. Similar as it was in Tyranny.
TTON has more words than Bible and keeping up with all Numenera terms could be hard for newcomers.

Are they going to do a nice hardcover version of that? That would be great, IMO, as long as the information included therein is not made completely obsolete by patches (Pillars of Eternity, I'm looking at you.).

 

[FeelTheRads]

Pfft, with modern development and especially with Kickstarter development any printed thing is made obsolete.

But at least you get the chance to play an alpha version disguised as a beta and then a beta disguised as final!!!

 

[HoboForEternity]

i will never understand people who pays more more alpha/beta access. you are literally play testing and pay for it.it is a fucking work, people gets paid for it because bug spotting is tedious and stressful. yet idiots pay money for it.

bleh

 

[Prime Junta]

i will never understand people who pays more more alpha/beta access. you are literally play testing and pay for it.it is a fucking work, people gets paid for it because bug spotting is tedious and stressful. yet idiots pay money for it.

I enjoyed the Pillars beta a lot. It was fun to get a close look at a work in progress, be able to give feedback, see how it was (or wasn't) incorporated into the product, and generally see it take shape.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

i will never understand people who pays more more alpha/beta access. you are literally play testing and pay for it.it is a fucking work, people gets paid for it because bug spotting is tedious and stressful. yet idiots pay money for it.

bleh

It is funny if you look at it that way. People paying extra money, usually above the cost of the retail price of the game, to do work on it! And not get paid! :D

 

[Fry]

I reported maybe two bugs in the PoE1 and Torment betas and certainly didn't put in anything I'd call work.

It's all about wanting to play the game as early as possible. No self control, etc.

 

[bminorkey]

I think a fair number of people would be prepared to argue that Pillars Of Eternity would have benefited from cutting some promised features.

That's the thing, isn't it? Pillars delivered everything, but it's highly debatable whether the game was actually better for it.

Yup. I hope they've learned their lessons for Pillars 2.

Even though I think Pillars would've been better without the stronghold, with Od Nua spread out over a bunch of locations and integrated into the story, with fewer classes, and definitely without those godawful backer NPCs, I think they made the right call: they owned their mistakes from the start, delivered what they promised, and resolved to do better next time.

(Oh, and, delivered a pretty good game even with those flaws. Mustn't forget about that...)

i liked the fortress a lot

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

I reported maybe two bugs in the PoE1 and Torment betas and certainly didn't put in anything I'd call work.

It's all about wanting to play the game as early as possible. No self control, etc.

I can dig it. If people want to do that more power to them. I usually like to wait until a game is somewhat "finished" to dive in like that.

 

[Haplo]

I had a friend who didn't bother reading some of the ingame conversations, so he ended up thinking Od Nua is a main quest. He kept doing it until floor 7-8 while still in Act 1. By the time we told him there's a whole world to explore out there, he came out of Od Nua so overleveled and overgeared with unique items, the rest of the game became a snoozefest and he basically ruined entire playthrough for himself.

My experience, more or less. Only I knew there was other content as well. But kept pushing nonetheless. Oh, the bounty quests provided many early levels as well.

 

[Lurker King]

i liked the fortress a lot

I thought it was going to be an improved Crossroad Keep, with better graphics and designed by Tim Cain! Oh boy, I was sooo wrong.



MAKE STRONGHOLDS GREAT AGAIN!

 

[Reapa]

don't ask me how i know but the game has clothes physics! it only has 3 stats and 3 armor slots but it has clothes physics!!! sure they may have cut some stretch goals and some characters other then humans but the game has clothes physics!!!!! it doesn't seem to feature hair physics like twitcher, maybe because it's a small team working on this game, but it does have clothes physics!!!!!!! not full clothes physics, only the lower side of your dress or cape will move around because it was done on such a small budget but it does have partial clothes physics!!!!!!!!!

 

[throwaway]

Is ksaun likely to be under and NDA or would it be mere professionalism that keeps him from answering any potential questions on the cuts (until the news are so old he barely remembers anyway) ?

 

[CyberWhale]

i will never understand people who pays more more alpha/beta access. you are literally play testing and pay for it.it is a fucking work, people gets paid for it because bug spotting is tedious and stressful. yet idiots pay money for it.

bleh

It's basically like giving Fargo a blowjob and then tucking a 100 dollar bill in his pocket.

 

[Fairfax]

Is ksaun likely to be under and NDA or would it be mere professionalism that keeps him from answering any potential questions on the cuts (until the news are so old he barely remembers anyway) ?

NDA for sure. Best chance of getting answers would be if Fargo let Colin and/or Adam explain.

 

[throwaway]

Colin's absence from all this is remarkable.

 

[CyberWhale]

Colin's absence from all this is remarkable.

Too busy fighting evil patriarchy on Twitter like the rest of "gaming developers".

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

Colin's absence from all this is remarkable.

Too busy fighting evil patriarchy on Twitter like the rest of "gaming developers".

If you look at their twitters right now, they're all seriously "fighting Trump, so he can't do more harm before he's impeached after the tax evasion is discovered, which is really soon!!". They're serious as fuck too.

I've been reading a few twitters of some of my favorite writers and they're dipped in this shit as well. Posting pictures of their children on the marches holding anti-Trump signs, their wives doing the same, etc.