Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Ivan]

*smiles conspiratorially*

Spoiler

 

[Fairfax]

Some of our players and community members recently pointed out

The RPG Codex, Colin.

Some of you have been asking about the Oasis, an area we talked about during the campaign as our second major city.

You didn't just talk about it, it was the $4 million stretch goal.

Though we fully intended that the Oasis would be our second city, story changes, plus our growing fascination with the Bloom, turned that location into our second major hub instead. In fact, the Bloom and surrounding areas are much larger than we originally discussed building for the Oasis.

So you reach the Bloom in the last third of the game, yet it's somehow "much larger" than the second major city they had promised? Sounds like bullshit. Fortunately for them, however, we don't know what the Oasis was supposed to be, so no one could dispute that claim even after release.

One other topic: the Italian localization. When we set out to create Torment, our planned size was significantly smaller. Torment in its final form grew to a much bigger, deeper RPG, and has over 1.2 million words. When we chose our planned localizations for the game, that word count and expanded scope for the game didn't exist yet. Unfortunately, it turns out that localization a game script of such a magnitude to a good standard of quality is extremely costly.

It's funny because Fargo said the biggest perk of having a publisher would be their help with localization.

Unfortunately, during this process, we made the difficult decision to drop support for Italian - both our backer numbers and the sales of our prior RPGs in Italy meant it was unlikely we'd be able to field the very high costs.

WL2 was not released in Italian, and similar games don't support it either. Also, as I pointed out earlier, it wouldn't take much for the italian sales to pay that back, unless they're no expecting the game to do well.

We’re looking into ways to bring you Italian in a post-release capacity, such as community translations.

"Hey folks, we don't want to pay for the italian localization, but maybe you'd like to do it for free?". The balls on these guys.

It's interesting that yet again there's no mention of the player stronghold or the live orchestra soundtrack.

 

[Zombra]

However...I got through the whole beta with only two combats and I could've skipped one of them.

Wait ... so you're saying the game is good but noncombat solutions are viable?

 

[Zombra]

Some of our players and community members recently pointed out

The RPG Codex, Colin.

Wasn't it anonymous6059 who kind of led the charge on this? Are you saying that anonymous6059 speaks for RPG Codex?

 

[Rev]

Heh, the Italian market isn't really big when it comes to RPGs, especially the mid-low budget ones. Most of the players in this country are fucking console peasants who only buy FIFA, AC and other AAA products for their PlayStation, so they might be right in saying that the translation would cost them more than what revenue it may bring.
Still, it was them who promised to translate the game in the first place, so it's their fault if they couldn't get their numbers straight. Instead of looking bad yet again they should've stick to what they said, but we all know that keeping their word is not seen as important by inXile.

Besides that, I agree with everything else you said.
Edit: I'm referring to Fairfax, of course.

 

[Fairfax]

Some of our players and community members recently pointed out

The RPG Codex, Colin.

Wasn't it anonymous6059 who kind of led the charge on this? Are you saying that anonymous6059 speaks for RPG Codex?

Anonymous6059 was the one claiming we were trolling and I was "inflaming" other users. I posted my findings here, and Infinitron posted the threads in the InXile forums. It was all Codex.

EDIT:
And Kemosabe's reddit thread and posts.

 

[Rev]

Also Kem0sabe's reddit. Yeah, all Codex.

 

[Roguey]

Even Dawn_ Of "Who the fuck is Dawn_?" fame is disappointed.

Unless someone claims that Monte Cook's novella is good and is able to support that statement, I won't waste any time reading it.

 

[Zombra]

More from McComb:

You totally have a right to be disappointed with inXile's communication. I'm not here to argue with that, and if it's a dealbreaker for future crowdfunding for you, that's something inXile will have to live with.

In the meantime, here's an explanation - not an excuse - if it helps you understand how these things happened.

We've been heads-down for about a year and a half now. Once we were content-complete, we moved immediately into polish and iteration (and press/publicity). This involved not only coordinating and overseeing programmers, designers (level, narrative, system, etc), and artists, but also coordinating with our publisher, manufacturers for physical goods, and running the extensive testing necessary for a game of this depth and complexity. I can't speak for the producers' mindset, but from the design side, we were so focused on delivering a game for the backers that we weren't thinking about, you know, communicating with them.

I don't have access to the KS account to provide a backer update on my own recognizance. The producers guard that access closely, and frankly they were probably wise not to give it to me (KICKSTARTER UPDATE #WHO KNOWS: "Hey, backers! Colin here! It's midnight and I'm drunk! Let me tell you some stories!..."). However, I do know that they've been working their butts off too. Eric Daily is laboring extraordinarily hard to keep all these moving pieces going smoothly. Eric Schwarz is wearing, oh, let's call it FIVE different hats. Thomas Beekers largely transitioned off Torment and onto preproduction for WL3. In between all their other responsibilities, it just wasn't foremost on their minds.

But hell, it probably should have been.

Like I said, this is an explanation. Not an excuse. Just so you can see where our heads were. We'll have a KS update out later today.

In the meantime, like all of you, I was bummed out about some of our cuts, most especially about the CNPCs. We had some neat stories planned, and I'm still hopeful we can add them back in. Nothing* would make me happier.



*I can actually think of a few things that would make me happier.

 

[Severian Silk]

Has anyone compiled a COMPLETE list of changes/dropped features? I heard they went from 6 to 4 party members. That's the only one I heard about that I care about.

 

[Zombra]

Has anyone compiled a COMPLETE list of changes/dropped features? I heard they went from 6 to 4 party members. That's the only one I heard about that I care about.

Was TTON ever going to be a six-character party? Yeah, last I heard it's 1+3 companions.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Has anyone compiled a COMPLETE list of changes/dropped features? I heard they went from 6 to 4 party members. That's the only one I heard about that I care about.

Was TTON ever going to be a six-character party? Yeah, last I heard it's 1+3 companions.

He means 4 total companions, not simultaneously.

 

[Severian Silk]

No, I mean simultaneously.

Nice the Labyrinth at least made it in (to whatever extent), and what little I played of the beta was okay, but... reduced party size to a popamole foursome, dropped the one good part of the Cypher System, i.e. the health mechanic, focused on edgy Bloom over marvelous Oasis (to the point we'll probably barely see ten square - or rather cubic as it were - feet of what is supposed to be a major metropolis encircled by leagues and leagues of desert), cut The Toy which was the companion I was by far looking forward to the most,... (Don't care one way or the other about crafting, though.)

Add to that the console cash grab and the ungrateful asshattery in recentish months, and, well, at this point I'm caught between and . No more excitement, no more disappointment. I already payed for it, so I guess I'll play the director's cut someday, but this clusterfuck has certainly cemented me never backing a game by inXile (or whatever Fargo's next video game company may be) again.

I guess it's not the case. Whatever.

 

[Ivan]

I don't see them releasing the cut content as an expansion. Imagine all the work needed to re-incorporate all that shit. Most likely a Director's Cut.

 

[Ivan]

inXile entertainment, Inc sent you $85.00 USD
Note from inXile entertainment, Inc:
Torment pledge refund request.

Spoiler

dont be a fag

 

[Fry]

I thought about it but, nah. I'm riding this train to the cliff.

Won't be backing any more of their projects, but I decided that a long time ago.

 

[Rev]

Of course, if I had backed at 50-100 bucks or even more I'd ask for at least a partial refund. Luckily I never put too much trust in inXile even in the days of the KS craze, because of their terrible history record, and only backed at a basic level. Also, T:ToN is the last of their projects I've put my money in, and I intend to continue that way, since WL2 was disappointing and Numenera's development has turned into a mess that exposed all their incompetence.
I'll stick to what I already paid for, play the game and see if they've finally released a good one, but even if I end up liking it I won't back their next projects.

 

[Fairfax]

Has anyone compiled a COMPLETE list of changes/dropped features? I heard they went from 6 to 4 party members. That's the only one I heard about that I care about.

I'm pretty sure it was going to be 6 at first, but in the middle of the KS campaign they announced it would be 4. In addition to the cut stretch goals, they cut:

• Customizable interface. It's extremely limited other than hiding tips and changing text size right now.
• Custom portraits. You can change the portraits if you know which files to mod, but it was promised as a feature.
• An entire faction that Ziets said he'd talk about later.
• Italian localization.
• The Numenera rules which The Game Analists loved.

If you're considering changes made during the Kickstarter (like the party size), there's also the combat system. It was going to be a phase-based system designed by Adam Heine at first, but they decided to do a poll between RtwP and TB instead, and it was easily the most controversial moment of the game's development. I used to think it was the most poorly handled as well, but the cut content debacle takes the cake.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Optics. No time (money) to complete promised features you paid for up front, but we will port to other platform for simultaneous release and max cash flow. There is no way to spin or explain that away. It is a clear indication of greed, not because something was missed, but because things the community didn't pre-pay for made it in.

 

[Darth Roxor]

inXile entertainment, Inc sent you $85.00 USD
Note from inXile entertainment, Inc:
Torment pledge refund request.

Spoiler

dont be a fag

can confirm

 

[Prime Junta]

inXile entertainment, Inc sent you $85.00 USD
Note from inXile entertainment, Inc:
Torment pledge refund request.

Spoiler

dont be a fag

can confirm

Here too.

 

[Haplo]

I'm increasingly bitter about the removal of the interesting, non-humanoid companions.
The rest of the cut content I can live with, but having only humanoids in a game called "Torment" is a disgrace.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Yeah, that's the part which bothers me most. I was not expecting another Morte but we got all them "meh" ones.

 

[Prime Junta]

I'm increasingly bitter about the removal of the interesting, non-humanoid companions.
The rest of the cut content I can live with, but having only humanoids in a game called "Torment" is a disgrace.

Animation budget can't do everything. Had to get that root animation with the kinetic effects in, see. Something had to go.

 

[Haplo]

Nice to see they've got their priorities straight then, huh?