Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Irenaeus]

no wonder InePtile people ran away from this place and pretend we never existed.

It was the natural reaction, really, considering that the Codex has standards.

So, the general consensus is:

inXile removed content, quietly, until (the Codex?) pointed it out.
They then released an apology, claiming it was intentional to make the core game better.
Only to say that "backers would get all future DLCs and Expansions free" - highlighting that the content was removed, not to polish the core game, but with the intention of re-selling it.
The Codex has been blacklisted "Julian Assange style" for bringing it up.

Am I correct? Sorry, I didn't back the game myself, so I haven't followed much of it closely...

That and Trump/Hitler. Jews and niggers. Aliens.

 

[Irenaeus]

So, the general consensus is:

Only to say that "backers would get all future DLCs and Expansions free" - highlighting that the content was removed, not to polish the core game, but with the intention of re-selling it.

No.

The content wasn't removed, it was never worked on beyond the simplest ideas.

 

[Junmarko]

No.

Informitron_2000

 

[Rev]

Btw, Junmarko, the Codex has been blacklisted before we even knew about all these cut contents.
It happened during last Gamescom, when they had an interview scheduled with Bubbles but later canceled it using an alleged leak of confidential informations by Infinitron (when all he really did was pointing out some stuff that was already public knowledge) as an excuse to renege their promises, maybe because they wanted to avoid the backlash due to the console ports' announcement or because they didn't want to be associated with the Codex anymore.
From then on, relations between Codex and inXile have been cold and our users have avenged the site by discovering all the lies about T:ToN and making them public, as in the late controversy about the cuts and the Italian localization (and other stuff) that dominated all recent news about Fargo's company.

 

[Infinitron]

Oh, I wouldn't think about it like that. Fairfax has disliked inXile for as long as he's been around here and he might have done that digging even if the Gamescom incident had never happened.

Of course digging into Early Access games' data files is a valuable service. I recommend that you do it for all games and post what you find on the Codex.

 

[Rev]

He dislikes inXile because of their actions, which were controversial even before the Codex interview and all that came after. That was just the moment when even the ones here who had neutral-positive opinions about inXile realised the company's douchery as well.

 

[santino27]

Fuck Fargo and his piece of shit PS:T wannabe spiritual successor.

It doesn't matter whether PS:T is any good; it matters whether Fargo is an incompetent, lying, and megalomaniacal idiot. PS:T might be a good game for all I care, despite its troubled development, but Fargo has shown that he is too far gone to deserve any money. Just saying "IT WILL BE SHIT" without addressing the real problem is playing right into Fargo's hand.

Just FYI, PS:T refers to the original game, Planescape: Torment. It sounds like you think it is instead the acronym for InXile's so-called spiritual successor (Torment: Tides of Numerasdkjhasdkjasd), but that is TTON.

 

[Iznaliu]

Just FYI, PS:T refers to the original game, Planescape: Torment. It sounds like you think it is instead the acronym for InXile's so-called spiritual successor (Torment: Tides of Numerasdkjhasdkjasd), but that is TTON.

Yes, you are right. Blame that on me churning posts out at an incredible speed.

 

[a bear named spigot]

Apparently inXile takes a while to respond to emails. No news on my refund request from 1st of Feb.

I received a reply within a day when I first contacted them late last month. however, since receiving "confirmation" that my refund had been sent on the 30th of jan (which I never got) I have not gotten a reply to my follow up queries.

I'd be interested to know if anyone who's gotten in touch for a refund since the start of Feb has actually been contacted, let alone actually got their money back.

 

[Cadmus]

So what's the consensus so far on this? I haven't been following not to spoil it for myself but I'm getting some bad vibes.

 

[Prime Junta]

I'd be interested to know if anyone who's gotten in touch for a refund since the start of Feb has actually been contacted, let alone actually got their money back.

FWIW I contacted them on Jan 29, heard back from them on Jan 31, and the refund showed up on my PayPal on Feb 1.

 

[a bear named spigot]

FWIW I contacted them on Jan 29, heard back from them on Jan 31, and the refund showed up on my PayPal on Feb 1.

thanks for the info, your timeline is basically the same as mine, except my money never showed up.

 

[Luckmann]

So what's the consensus so far on this? I haven't been following not to spoil it for myself but I'm getting some bad vibes.

I don't think you're going to get a consensus, but your bad vibes are fully justified. The facts are that inXile cut a ton of stretchgoal content (3 out of 5 companions, Italian localization, the 2nd major town (Oasis, possibly replaced by The Bloom, without comment), the entire crafting system (good riddance), the in-game Codex, and possibly more), and trimmed down even more that was (based on stretchgoal wording & communication) supposed to be in the base game (such as more than 3 Foci, an entire faction Zeits said he'd "talk about later", customizable interface, custom portraits, etc.). They then said nothing about this, despite knowing at least a full year or more in advance (it is honestly ridiculous to claim otherwise).

The development has been troubled, to say the least, with the release date being pushed back twice, and inXile signing on with a publisher (Techland) despite the crowdfunding, consolizing the game and releasing the game simultaneously with the PC release, despite previously stating that any development of a console version would be done after the release of the game and indicating that this was primarily a PC title. This last part is likely why the UI is bloated and backwards, as well as why the interface isn't customizable; instead the UI works and functions much like the Wasteland 2: Definitive Consolization Edition UI, instead of a PC-styled UI like in Wasteland 2 (before the WL2: Definitive Consolization) or Pillars of Eternity (which, despite all it's flaws, actually had a pretty good if fucking ugly and basic UI).

It's also unclear if certain writers promised to participate during the Kickstarter have even actually participated (there is no indication of such and they're not included in credits, if I understood it right), if there's actually an Orchestral Soundtrack (which was also promised as a stretchgoal, is notably absent, and is not being commented upon) and as to whether or not there's any actual "stronghold" feature in the game (which, again, was promised, but is now notably not being commented on at all). It would be simple to deny these suspicions with a simple "Yes, they're in the game", making the fact that they avoid commenting on it (just like how they avoided answering inquiries as to the state of the Foci) more than a little dubious.

On top of all that, people are also pissed that they essentially paid a premium for the Collector's Edition originally offered to backers, while there is now a retail Collector's Edition that is cheaper and includes more/better stuff, including an in-game item(s?), which is universally recognized as being the worst kind of practice by discerning gentlemen everywhere.

Like was mentioned earlier in the thread, following inXile is like investigating a horror fiction serial killer where you constantly come across new and more horrifying cases. I only started looking into the whole thing about two days ago, having not paid attention to the development for a long time, and at first it was mildly annoying, but as I kept digging it just kept getting worse, and now I'm incredibly happy I didn't back it after all. Between the blatant Tumblrism, inXile's less-than-stellar behaviour, the consolization, the early indications of poor storytelling, and all the huge cuts despite numerous delays, I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Which is sad, because as I heard that this would be released just two days after my birthday on a day on which I'm free, I was pretty psyched. I then saw the WL3 crowdfunding pitch and gave up all hope of inXile ever being part of the incline again.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

So many sudden money transfers due to the refunds that maybe their account was frozen and they are under investigation for money laundering

 

[Luckmann]

So many sudden money transfers due to the refunds that maybe their account was frozen and they are under investigation for money laundering

The sad part is that especially given that the Kickstarter was so long ago (First entry on the Tides of Numenera Tumblr is from February of fucking 2013) the vast majority of backers probably has no idea what's going on, meaning that there's probably actually not that many refunds being processed.

Especially those with the biggest concrete grievance, Italians, are probably mostly unaware, because if they feel the need for Italian localization, they're likely not the people to frequent these boards. Hopefully some Italian gaming outlet is bringing some attention to this somehow.

I really do think that we should make a comprehensive article detailing the disconcerting issues with the game and it's development, from the changes in leads to the tumblrite style of the archetypical characters (and everything in-between), as well as a list of all the things that have been cut, as well as mentioning all the things that is currently in question but has indications of having been cut and isn't commented on for dubious reasons (such as missing writers, the lack of Foci, and questions regarding the Orchestral Soundtrack).

Such a thing might read as a smear article on inXile, though, even if entirely truthful, but given that the RPGCodex was basically blacklisted just because it was expected to question the decision to make the core game multiplatform, I don't think that should matter. I'd be willing to write something up if the Codex would be willing to publish it, but I'd need help making a comprehensive list of sources and information regarding the many disparate issues, because it's currently a mess trying to sort out facts from speculation, especially since the RPGCodex has a tradition of XBOXHUEG threads.

For fucks sake, inXile, I had such hopes for you, now you're making me want to put catshit in your cereal.

 

[Infinitron]

You sound upset, Luckmann.

Everybody already knows that game has cut content. The news has spread, thanks to us. How about we just wait three weeks until the game is released and find out exactly what then.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Infinitron playing coy...

 

[Luckmann]

You sound upset, Luckmann.

Well it would be a lie to say I'm not mildly upset. There was a short moment there that I was actually, genuinely looking forward to the game, and that's been an incredibly rare thing for me in the past 10-15 years, having been hardened by constant let-downs, and although I wasn't a huge fan of WL2 and think that WL2DC was a complete fuckup, I actually had the hopes that inXile wouldn't be as hook-nosed and myopic as the social justice brigade at Obsidian.

Everybody already knows that game has cut content. The news has spread, thanks to us. How about we just wait three weeks until the game is released and find out exactly what then.

Everyone in this particular echo-chamber, maybe. There's still people dropping into the official forums without a clue, and even on the RPGCodex (such as myself), and steamtards and GOGnards are pretty much completely in the dark,. There's no single exposé of the totality of issues, and the fragmented posts and threads only really draw the attention a small subset of relatively dedicated fans. It would be beneficial to have a single article or post (preferably at the top of a dedicated thread) you could link people to and that would spread the word so that people can make informed decisions.

 

[Prime Junta]

If I end up reviewing this, I'm certainly going to include a "Valley of Broken Promises" blurb with a list of the features and stretch goals in the campaign, with the ones that are not in crossed out.

Ultimately I don't know if there's much point going beyond that in an article, unless we can get an inXile Deep Throat to spill the inside beans. It'd just be speculation based on hearsay, and that's what the forums are for, no?

 

[Luckmann]

If I end up reviewing this, I'm certainly going to include a "Valley of Broken Promises" blurb with a list of the features and stretch goals in the campaign, with the ones that are not in crossed out.

Ultimately I don't know if there's much point going beyond that in an article, unless we can get an inXile Deep Throat to spill the inside beans. It'd just be speculation based on hearsay, and that's what the forums are for, no?

"Let's not tell the people beforehand, and when we do, let's only mention the stretchgoals, not the other cuts, surrounding facts and issues" sounds just like something a commie would say.

Spoiler

Hi, PJ.

 

[Grotesque]

You sound upset, Luckmann.

Look at this schmuck! The sleazy impertinence...
Infinitron's reaction to the article proposal which in the end would depict the truth is proof that after all this time he's still Fargo's bitch, secretly and silently still hoping for a thrown bone from him.
I start to miss the old codex where it was an somewhat anonymous congregation.
The day it started receiving coverage the whoring began and the "nomenklatura" started to show its ugly head.
Also don't you think that Infinitron is without guilt in the inXile blacklisting fiasco where his ego and the need of showing who has a bigger dick between the members of aforementioned nomenklatura led to estrangement with Brother None aka Zyklon Beekers.

 

[t]

Luckmann please do write the comprehensive article. You seem to have struck a gold vein with the foci, one that no one else pointed out before. I know that an article covering campaign+updates vs reality would take quite a bit of time, but I believe it's important to have an article like that before the actual release. More people need to know about this, and maybe more outlets will pick up the story after a comprehensive and well-written article.

 

[Infinitron]

Note that the Foci aren't stretch goals. If they have been cut, they're just garden variety cut content. It's like learning that PS:T had a cut Priest class.

 

[t]

Note that the Foci aren't stretch goals. If they have been cut, they're just garden variety cut content. It's like learning that PS:T had a cut Priest class.

Not sure which do I feel worse about: cutting the stretch goals that have been explicitly made to grab some additional money from the backers or cutting the part of the original game that was supposed to get made with even 4 times smaller budget.

 

[Luckmann]

Note that the Foci aren't stretch goals. If they have been cut, they're just garden variety cut content. It's like learning that PS:T had a cut Priest class.

This is true, but the issue here is that it's a fairly substantial thing that was mentioned early on and as part of multiple stretch-goals, and the fact that they actually refuse to comment about it, hoping it'll go away. Focus is a pretty huge part of your character in the Numenera system.