Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Luckmann]

There's been more information published by user Tamias in a Plebbit Thread. I won't quote it here, because I can't be arsed to format it properly at this hour. For anyone interested, go there.

The most depressing thing about this reveal is that only 8 were intended for CNPC use, and that Foci for all 8 of those are still in the game, despite there only being 6 now. This suggests that there was never really any genuine plans at all to create 9 CNPC:s for the game. This makes the claim that they simply couldn't finish in time ridiculous, and the claims that they totally didn't know about the cuts over a year ago is an insane degree of wilful ignorance at best.

[...]

Luckmann The good thing is that, unlike inXile, you can be honest and say "That's all I could find. It might be more, it might be less, but we don't know" because inXile decided to hide this information from his backers.

That's what I was thinking, because in this case, speculation is relevant. Clarifying that "it seems" and "there's indications" and that this is substantiated speculation would be important, but much of this speculation is important to discuss and inform about because inXile isn't addressing it, despite being directly asked about it. The fact that they are unwilling to give a very simple "Yeah, that's in, don't worry." is in itself suspect.

It is not like Sears hasn't been active on the forums or that they haven't seen the posts. They're hoping it'll go away, and it's a mistake to let them. Even if the speculation would be wrong, pushing the issue could at least push inXile to fess up and give us concrete answers - then at least we and everyone else would know.

They published a Kickstarter update about the cut stretch goals after our newspost made a bunch of mainstream gaming journalism sites report about them. This is beating a dead horse. It's over, we won, they admitted it, we wait for the game now.

Except that's not true. There's still tons of issues that they haven't acknowledged, such as the Foci, the writers, or the Orchestral Soundtrack, and a great many people still have no idea about this, because the "apology" wasn't in a Kickstarter update, it hasn't been posted on the Tides of Numenera Tumblr, and it's sure as hell not in any news updates on Steam. As far as I'm aware, no single article details the issues, just loose threads here and there. I think you're confusing your own echo-chamber with the wider world.

This horse is very much still alive. And I don't want to see this poor horse beaten, I want to see it shot and put out of it's misery.

I'm not. You can post whatever you want here.

I just feel like I need to push back against the idea that the Codex as a site is going to go brigading against developers beyond posting the facts, which is what I feel like Luckmann is aiming for. Like, imagine if weeks before PoE's release we'd have published a bunch of articles by Sensuki saying based on the beta that the game's combat is going to suck, it's going to suck, don't buy it. That's something that could have happened with a different set of staff members in charge, and I'm sure lots of people think it should have happened. And you know, maybe that kind of thing has a place, but it's not a line I want to cross.

FYI, this is one of the reasons why Bubbles left the site, so it's something I've thought about.

I'm actually not at all after posting much more than the facts. While I may sound incensed, my focus is still solely on the facts and issues. The comparison to Sensuki is unfair, because that was a completely different situation, and while I agreed with Sensuki on a great many things, that fact remains that these were obvious design considerations that the developers (lol Sawyer) had settled on and would refuse to budge on.

Saying "the game will suck, don't buy it" would've been Sensuki's own opinion, nothing else. If he could've detailed breaches of developer/customer confidence, disconcerting behavioral issues with the developers, and offer substantiated speculation with questions posed to the developers which they had then chosen to ignore for reasons relating to the former two, he should absolutely have done so.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I'm not. You can post whatever you want here.

Like, imagine if weeks before PoE's release we'd have published a bunch of articles by Sensuki saying based on the beta that the game's combat sucks, it's going to suck, don't buy it. That's something that could have happened with a different set of staff members in charge

Yeah, just imagine.

and I'm sure lots of people think it should have happened.

Especially since the combat sucked, sucked and sucked and nobody should buy it.

IMAGINE if you published something like that!

So, yeah, fuck off with your "you can say whatever you want totally" when you go beg DU to retardo threads you don't like, as it happened with the "BN is a nazi" one.

And lol: at they admitted it, we won. They're doing a fine job at corporate bullshit, you don't really need to help. Wow, they admitted something everybody could have eventually seen! We should congratulate them for this, maybe!

 

[Infinitron]

You're not wrong, FeelTheRads. I'm sorry I can't be the hateblogger you deserve.

 

[Luckmann]

Is there a way we can make Infinitron's profile track the number of Cucks instead of Brofists? I feel it would be more relevant at this point.

 

[FeelTheRads]

You're not wrong, FeelTheRads. I'm sorry I can't be the hateblogger you deserve.

Yeah, keep on with the bullshit and your self-important attitude.

Were you or were you not literally begging DU to retardo that thread with the same "reason" as now that "the discussion is over, we won blah blah blah"?

You don't need to be a hateblogger, you just need to stop being a disgusting shill.

 

[Infinitron]

FYI I didn't need to beg DU for that. I did it myself, when it was time.

I'm not trying to bullshit you either. I'm genuinely sympathetic to your position.

 

[Sneaky Seal]

Oh, boy, do I love all the drama whenever I check in to see what's going on. Though something like "Yesterday on Codex" would be nice.
Do I understand correctly that inXile cut some major game content (companions, crafting, etc.) right before the release and were being sneaky about it but you guys were part of the effort to bring it into the spotlight?

 

[Alienman]

Has this to anything to do with InXile throwing Codex in the trash? Afraid of Obsidian doing the same? I don't understand what is wrong being critical with the games you love. It seems every other gaming site praises Fargo and company. Maybe it will do them some good with a couple of critical articles?

 

[Excidium II]

I just like when bad things happen to InXile.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Has this to anything to do with InXile throwing Codex in the trash? Afraid of Obsidian doing the same? I don't understand what is wrong being critical with the games you love. It seems every other gaming site praises Fargo and company. Maybe it will do them some good with a couple of critical articles?

The general perception on the interweb is that codex has an irrational hatred for everything obsidian.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

The general perception on the interweb is that codex has an irrational hatred for everything obsidian.

While in reality codex has an irrational hatred for everything.

 

[Luckmann]

The general perception on the interweb is that codex has an irrational hatred for everything obsidian.

While in reality codex has an irrational hatred for everything.

It's not irrational. The world is horrible.

 

[Fry]

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

 

[Once more unto the Codex]

The general perception on the interweb is that codex has an irrational hatred for everything obsidian.

Yeah. The fact that Obsidian still engages with codex and some of their developers still even post here shows just how petty and thin-skinned inXile's blacklisting really is.

 

[Kem0sabe]

It's not irrational. The world is horrible.

Indeed it is, luckily my grandmother says we will all die horribly very soon.

 

[Kem0sabe]

What's supposed to shock me about the Wasteland 3 pitch? That it has multiplayer and is more mainstream-oriented? Big deal, so are some of the Codex's favorite RPGs. I thought we were talking about how competent they are at development. That's a different thing than the type of game they're developing.

Until they actually release their KS games post WL2, we don't know shit about inXile's competence, but I figure it's safe to assume there is none.

 

[Ravel myluv]

I'd like to give my take on the cut content issue, because I think some people here are slightly missing the main issue.

The problem with Kickstarter games is developers will always show you their dream project during the campaign, and I believe most of them sincerely think they can make that big of a game. Their failure to accomplish everything shouldn’t reflect badly on them. Honest developers must feel just as bitter as the backers to have content cut. And hey, if you think ithey should make evrything go as part of the plan, rather than pay the employees and the electricity bill, then you probably feel entitled too much.

Now with TTON Kickstarter. Their campaign was absurdly filled with :
- Time-consuming promises, such as the castoff labyrinth, a second major city, whole new systems like crafting or stronghold as strech goals
- Big names : now THAT was a worrying sign, who actually believed Rothfuss would spend time on this game ?
- Random figures like going from 11 to 16 tides : wtf, did he pull that from his a… ?
- And « moar stuff » like « more reactivity », « deeper companinons » which basically mean nothing, or nothing we could verify they actually spent more time on as promised.

All this leads me to believe the InXile managers knew or should have known most of these promises would never make into the game, and THAT is unacceptable. Not the unability to reach their goals, but the knowledge they had that they were over-promising. Sincerity is the problem here, not failure.

Chances are the game will be decent enough. But I sure as shit won’t finance another InXile campaign, because InXile’s managers have proven to be incompetent at best, and damn liars at worst.

Still, my respects to the developers, who most certainly have nothing to do with Fargo’s sleazy beahvior.

 

[Infinitron]

I'd like to give my take on the cut content issue, because I think some people here are slightly missing the main issue.

The problem with Kickstarter games is developers will always show you their dream project during the campaign, and I believe most of them sincerely think they can make that big of a game. Their failure to accomplish everything shouldn’t reflect badly on them. Honest developers must feel just as bitter as the backers to have content cut. And hey, if you think ithey should make evrything go as part of the plan, rather than pay the employees and the electricity bill, then you probably feel entitled too much.

Now with TTON Kickstarter. Their campaign was absurdly filled with :
- Time-consuming promises, such as the castoff labyrinth, a second major city, whole systems like crafting
- Big names : now THAT was a worrying sign, who actually believed Rothfuss would spend time on this game ?
- Random figures like going from 11 to 16 tides : wtf, did he pull that from his a… ?
- And « moar stuff » like « more reactivity », « deeper companinons » which basically mean nothing, or nothing we could verify they actually spent more time on as promised.

All this leads me to believe the InXile managers knew or should have known most of these promises would never make into the game, and THAT is unacceptable. Not the unability to reach their goals, but the knowledge they had that they were over-promising. Sincerity is the problem here, not failure.

Chances are the game will be decent enough. But I sure as shit won’t finance another InXile campaign, because InXile’s managers have proven to be incompetent at best, and damn liars at worst.

Still, my respects to the developers, who most certainly have nothing to do with Fargo’s sleazy beahvior.

All of those things were ksaun's decisions.

 

[Junmarko]

It's important to remain neutral on the whole thing. I can understand if you backed it how pissed you would be. But you need to remember, most games go through the process of outright turfing ideas, we just never hear about them. The crowdfunding process is unique in this aspect because it just makes the development process completely public from the outset.

I think it's a little unfair to refer to Brian as a "sleaze" or "corporate shill" though - he's not a single bit like any of those people. Love or hate Wasteland 2, the fact that inXile gave out copies of the Director's Cut for free, I think is proof that whatever hiccups TTON have will have amends made. Most developer's would fucking piss themselves laughing at the idea of giving anything away for free.

They have just bitten off more than they can chew with Bard's Tale 4, TToN and now Wasteland 3. But they will come good, I'm sure. There has already been a big enough storm kicked up on this alone.

 

[Infinitron]

They won't be able to make much amends if the game doesn't sell.

I don't like the fact that inXile crowdfunded so many games but it does save their asses from a commercial failure. They can just cut their losses and move on to Wasteland 3.

 

[Ravel myluv]

They won't be able to make much amends if the game doesn't sell.

I don't like the fact that inXile crowdfunded so many games but it does save their asses from a commercial failure. They can just cut their losses and move on to Wasteland 3.

.... And deliver even less on their next projects. The long developing times will eventually prove costly.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

All of those things were ksaun's decisions.

Yeah, that's the joke here, isn't it? Don't you just love all those narratives people were pulling out of their butts, about Ksaun, a true TTON hero, who got booted off the project because he wanted to make it too hardcore...

All those changes are telling a quite different story... because all these cuts didn't just happened yesterday.

 

[Excidium II]

This is seriously fuck up man. Will the game really launch with only 3 foci?

 

[Junmarko]

This is seriously fuck up man. Will the game really launch with only 3 foci?

Yes. Male, Female and Neutrois(DLC).