Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[santino27]

Oh, boy, do I love all the drama whenever I check in to see what's going on. Though something like "Yesterday on Codex" would be nice.

If you can't live through it in real time with the rest of us, you don't deserve a summary. :D (plus the fun is in watching it all unfold)

 

[Junmarko]

you will learn something new every day...

There's been more information published by user Tamias in a Plebbit Thread.

 

[Darth Roxor]

It's over, we won, they admitted it, we wait for the game now.

Why are you so keen to shut down the discussion about it?

I'm not. You can post whatever you want here.

I just feel like I need to push back against the idea that the Codex as a site is going to go brigading against developers beyond posting the facts, which is what I feel like Luckmann is aiming for. Like, imagine if weeks before PoE's release we'd have published a bunch of articles by Sensuki saying based on the beta that the game's combat sucks, it's going to suck, don't buy it. That's something that could have happened with a different set of staff members in charge, and I'm sure lots of people think it should have happened. And you know, maybe that kind of thing has a place, but it's not a line I want to cross.

FYI, this is one of the reasons why Bubbles left the site, so it's something I've thought about.

ayyyyyy lmao

 

[Cyberarmy]

Well...
PoE s combat still suck?

 

[Prime Junta]

It's over, we won, they admitted it, we wait for the game now.

Why are you so keen to shut down the discussion about it?

I'm not. You can post whatever you want here.

I just feel like I need to push back against the idea that the Codex as a site is going to go brigading against developers beyond posting the facts, which is what I feel like Luckmann is aiming for.

Luckmann is posting about it. On the forum. If he's submitted an article about it, I trust you'll discuss it in the content forum as usual. You, OTOH, appear to be going "nothing to see here people, move along," also on the forum.

Like, imagine if weeks before PoE's release we'd have published a bunch of articles by Sensuki saying based on the beta that the game's combat sucks, it's going to suck, don't buy it.

False equivalence. In this case, we have obvious, documented, unambiguous breaches of promises made to crowdfunders. In your hypothetical, we have an individual's opinion about combat mechanics. Moreover, we're not dealing with a "bunch of articles," we're dealing with a forum.

And finally, I do not think such an article would necessarily have been out of place at all. Whatever his failings, Sensuki is extremely well-informed about both Pillars and the IE games, and what he has to say about the combat is well worth listening to, even if you disagree.

That's something that could have happened with a different set of staff members in charge, and I'm sure lots of people think it should have happened. And you know, maybe that kind of thing has a place, but it's not a line I want to cross.

FYI, this is one of the reasons why Bubbles left the site, so it's something I've thought about.

Oh please.

There are obvious lines that even the Codex has to draw, for legal reasons if nothing else. It shouldn't publish actionable lies. It should frame front-page content appropriately: as reviews, editorial content, or reportage, depending. It should maintain a minimal standard of quality. It probably should avoid getting overly repetitive. And it should allow as much of the full range of Codexian opinion to show up there as Codexians can be arsed to write. On the whole the Codex does quite OK in these respects, considering.

I.e. if the spirit moves Luckmann or someone else to do a genuine in-depth piece about What Went Wrong With T:ToN -- what promises were made and broken, what we know about the "how," trying to dig up inside sources, asking Fargo, CMcC, ksaun and whoever for comment, etc., then that's potentially a fine piece of reporting and not just beating a dead horse. If it's just a list of what, given current information, we believe may or may not have been cut, then that's more forum post material of course -- or, eventually, a blurb in a review.

 

[TwoEdge]

In February, last year, Brother None had this to say in the Steam forums:

Brother None [developer] 3 Feb, 2016 @ 4:56pm

We will not have all Foci from the books, no, but do plan to add more than the current ones implemented.

More false promises?

 

[Darth Roxor]

please dont be mean to codex darlings

think of the spirit of bubbles past :^)

 

[fobia]

I guess after trying out the Beta it's too late for a refund?
Or are they honest enough about their shortcomings?

 

[Grotesque]

You're not wrong, FeelTheRads. I'm sorry I can't be the hateblogger you deserve.

So this Infinitron automatically assumes that any article from the Codex depicting facts about game development would be automatically hatespeech/hatebloggering etc? It's like saying this prestigious magazine is incapable of making a well balanced neutral report!?
Wow... and this caricature is in charge around here? Talking about selling us short...

The funny thing is that the Codex helped expose the cut content, major/minor publications reported on it based on the work done around here but the Codex did not even made a small article about it because Infinitron "The Cuck" is afraid of losing his moral compass when it's not even the case.
It's like fucking a woman and then inviting somebody else to ejaculate in her.

Were all of those who reported about the cut content guilty of hatebloggering?
Because if there's only one that's not, there is no reason whatsoever not to make an article about it right here on the Codex.

Your attitude is disgusting and if until now people telling you you're a shill was in great part just old-fashioned trolling, that would be not the case anymore.
But you're not a shill... you're just thoroughly misguided (as in stupid).

 

[Cadmus]

I'm not. You can post whatever you want here.

I just feel like I need to push back against the idea that the Codex as a site is going to go brigading against developers beyond posting the facts, which is what I feel like Luckmann is aiming for. Like, imagine if weeks before PoE's release we'd have published a bunch of articles by Sensuki saying based on the beta that the game's combat sucks, it's going to suck, don't buy it. That's something that could have happened with a different set of staff members in charge, and I'm sure lots of people think it should have happened. And you know, maybe that kind of thing has a place, but it's not a line I want to cross.

FYI, this is one of the reasons why Bubbles left the site, so it's something I've thought about.

¨

Oh wow, is this shit or is this shit? What line, lol. I Would have liked to know, sounds exactly like the thing the codex could do when nobody else would dare. Sounds like there's a clear case to be made.
Secondly, Sensuki was ridiculed for basically knowing too much about the game and telling everybody about it and being basically the most knowledgable person about the game anywhere. Fuck you, his autism was based in fact and well argued and you write stupid shit like this. Instead of being able to argue against him at least once, you brand him as a lunatic.

Luckmann is posting about it. On the forum. If he's submitted an article about it, I trust you'll discuss it in the content forum as usual. You, OTOH, appear to be going "nothing to see here people, move along," also on the forum.



False equivalence. In this case, we have obvious, documented, unambiguous breaches of promises made to crowdfunders. In your hypothetical, we have an individual's opinion about combat mechanics. Moreover, we're not dealing with a "bunch of articles," we're dealing with a forum.

And finally, I do not think such an article would necessarily have been out of place at all. Whatever his failings, Sensuki is extremely well-informed about both Pillars and the IE games, and what he has to say about the combat is well worth listening to, even if you disagree.



Oh please.

There are obvious lines that even the Codex has to draw, for legal reasons if nothing else. It shouldn't publish actionable lies. It should frame front-page content appropriately: as reviews, editorial content, or reportage, depending. It should maintain a minimal standard of quality. It probably should avoid getting overly repetitive. And it should allow as much of the full range of Codexian opinion to show up there as Codexians can be arsed to write. On the whole the Codex does quite OK in these respects, considering.

I.e. if the spirit moves Luckmann or someone else to do a genuine in-depth piece about What Went Wrong With T:ToN -- what promises were made and broken, what we know about the "how," trying to dig up inside sources, asking Fargo, CMcC, ksaun and whoever for comment, etc., then that's potentially a fine piece of reporting and not just beating a dead horse. If it's just a list of what, given current information, we believe may or may not have been cut, then that's more forum post material of course -- or, eventually, a blurb in a review.

WHILE I AGREE WITH YOU, THE CONTENT SHOULD ALSO NOT BE FUCKING BORING SO DON'T WRITE ANYTHING YOURSELF, MKAY?

 

[Rev]

Yeah, I don't get why Infinitron is still kinda defending inXile after all the shit they pulled. They even used him as an excuse to cancel an interview with Bubbles, saying he leaked data when he didn't really revealed any confidential informations, and outright lied to him (as the famous "tier 1" line and all the "no, you're not blacklisted, we just don't want to have anything to do with you anymore" chats he had with Brother None), so if anything he should be even more angry at them than the rest of us.

 

[Cadmus]

Well, I'm not angry because I don't give Fargo any money as a personal rule. He looks like he could sell me an empty water bottle. I only think that there's no reason to have any great expectation or any fanboyism should be involved when dealing with inexile (what a fucking name that is)

 

[Prime Junta]

WHILE I AGREE WITH YOU, THE CONTENT SHOULD ALSO NOT BE FUCKING BORING SO DON'T WRITE ANYTHING YOURSELF, MKAY?

Don't blame me for writing. Blame the editors for accepting it for publication.

 

[FeelTheRads]

please dont be mean to codex darlings

think of the spirit of bubbles past :^)

Thanks, I actually didn't understand what he meant in that line about Bubbles.
Now I see that he was actually using his departure to motivate the "move along" attitude. Jesus Christ, kill yourself, Infinitron.

Were all of those who reported about the cut content guilty of hatebloggering?

Of course, bro. But you know what's not hatebloggering? Posting each and every shitty Techland trailer as newsposts. That's quality reporting.

 

[Infinitron]

You, OTOH, appear to be going "nothing to see here people, move along," also on the forum.

Again, no I'm not.

There are obvious lines that even the Codex has to draw, for legal reasons if nothing else. It shouldn't publish actionable lies. It should frame front-page content appropriately: as reviews, editorial content, or reportage, depending. It should maintain a minimal standard of quality. It probably should avoid getting overly repetitive. And it should allow as much of the full range of Codexian opinion to show up there as Codexians can be arsed to write. On the whole the Codex does quite OK in these respects, considering.

I.e. if the spirit moves Luckmann or someone else to do a genuine in-depth piece about What Went Wrong With T:ToN -- what promises were made and broken, what we know about the "how," trying to dig up inside sources, asking Fargo, CMcC, ksaun and whoever for comment, etc., then that's potentially a fine piece of reporting and not just beating a dead horse. If it's just a list of what, given current information, we believe may or may not have been cut, then that's more forum post material of course -- or, eventually, a blurb in a review.

OK, is there anything we actually disagree about?

 

[Cadmus]

Yes, you draw the line at publishing an overwhelmingly negative article about your jewish overlords and try to support your retardo argument with this pseudo journalistic drivel "omg we cant be posting like rabid haterz, got to keep it balanced" whereas Prime Fuckfacea draws the line at publishing actionable lies.

 

[Luckmann]

You, OTOH, appear to be going "nothing to see here people, move along," also on the forum.

Again, no I'm not.

To say that you're not is strange, considering that that is practically exactly what you're doing. It's one thing to say "Nah, we shouldn't have an article about it, because reasons", and you're not actually doing anything to shit on discussions relating to the issues or anything, but you totally are saying "nothing to see here, move along". It's civil, but it's still there. There's no other way to read "It's over, we won, they admitted it, we wait for the game now" than "Nothing to see here, move along". What's the point in denying it, seeing as you seem to have an argument for doing so? You obviously feel that the matter should be dropped. While many of us feel differently, I see no reason for you to deny that, and it just comes off as even more questionable that you do.

Yes, you draw the line at publishing an overwhelmingly negative article about your jewish overlords and try to support your retardo argument with this pseudo journalistic drivel "omg we cant be posting like rabid haterz, got to keep it balanced" whereas Prime Fuckfacea draws the line at publishing actionable lies.

Yeah, it wouldn't be our fault that the article would be overwhelmingly negative. It's not about smearing shit onto something, it's about pointing out that that's not mud on his clothes or chocolate pudding on his face.

Anyone bringing attention to this and keeping people informed, even if it puts the subject in a negative light, didn't force the people involved to shit themselves, reach in, eat it, and grin.

How the fuck would you write a balanced article on this, other than ending it on a positive note saying "Maybe it won't suck anyway"? Even if Tides of Numenera is overall good, it's still a shadow of what it should've been, and inXile has still been shady as fuck about the whole thing.

 

[Prime Junta]

Again, no I'm not.

This is beating a dead horse. It's over, we won, they admitted it, we wait for the game now.

'k

 

[Infinitron]

Luckmann I feel like you stumbled onto this issue late, you're shocked about it and you feel the need to "make your mark" after Fairfax and co already did the work weeks ago and broke the story. That's okay and you can post whatever you want on the forums, but I feel like on my side I'm done with this for now. I'm not interested in being drawn into an extended litigation with inXile over this topic ("NO, you have to tell us EXACTLY what's cut! Non-stretch goal content too! Come clean, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!"). As a newsposter I've got other things to do. There's probably a place for that sort of fan community activism, but it's not something I'm interested in doing.

Again, no I'm not.

This is beating a dead horse. It's over, we won, they admitted it, we wait for the game now.

'k

I suppose that could have been phrased better. See above.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

 

[Iznaliu]

Yeah, I don't get why Infinitron is still kinda defending inXile after all the shit they pulled. They even used him as an excuse to cancel an interview with Bubbles, saying he leaked data when he didn't really revealed any confidential informations, and outright lied to him (as the famous "tier 1" line and all the "no, you're not blacklisted, we just don't want to have anything to do with you anymore" chats he had with Brother None), so if anything he should be even more angry at them than the rest of us.

Someday Infinitron hopes to get back in Fargo's good books so RPGCodex can continue to get more press attention Hope can blind people, even when the desired change is outright impossible.

 

[Lurker King]

Shit, that's one ugly head of hair. Weird that I notice it now.

Some of the 3D art in Torment is awful. The immortal one looks like shit too.

 

[Prime Junta]

I'm not interesting in being drawn into an extended litigation with inXile over this topic ("NO, you have to tell us EXACTLY what's cut! Non-stretch goal content too! Come clean, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!"). As a newsposter I've got other things to do. There's probably a place for that sort of fan community activism, but it's not something I'm interesting in doing.

Perhaps I missed it, but who was asking you to do the legwork on this?

 

[t]

I'm not interesting

 

[Infinitron]

Yeah, I don't get why Infinitron is still kinda defending inXile after all the shit they pulled. They even used him as an excuse to cancel an interview with Bubbles, saying he leaked data when he didn't really revealed any confidential informations, and outright lied to him (as the famous "tier 1" line and all the "no, you're not blacklisted, we just don't want to have anything to do with you anymore" chats he had with Brother None), so if anything he should be even more angry at them than the rest of us.

Someday Infinitron hopes to get back in Fargo's good books so RPGCodex can continue to get more press attention Hope can blind people, even when the desired change is outright impossible.

I'm just not anti-inXile or anti-any developer that aims to specialize in the genre of RPGs that I like. That transcends any personal drama for me. With regard to inXile, when Vault Dweller said this back in November 2015 (after Bard's Tale IV, before Wasteland 3):

TEG: Are there any developers and/or game designers that you are excited by creatively? In your opinion, who should we pay close attention to?

VDW: Right now? inXile. They have the right experience and creative freedom (aka “we don’t need no stinking badges Real Time with Pause”) to do what they want.

...there was good reason for it. I do think that their future is murky now and they need to shape up fast.

I'm not interesting in being drawn into an extended litigation with inXile over this topic ("NO, you have to tell us EXACTLY what's cut! Non-stretch goal content too! Come clean, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!"). As a newsposter I've got other things to do. There's probably a place for that sort of fan community activism, but it's not something I'm interesting in doing.

Perhaps I missed it, but who was asking you to do the legwork on this?

There's always legwork. But again, from what you've said earlier we don't really disagree on this. The kind of article you're suggesting needs to be written would be more than just a speculative diatribe/accusation, so I probably wouldn't have a problem with it.