Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Pre-Release Thread [ALPHA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Roguey]

I am happy for you, but some of them will ask a complete refund. I am not afraid to say i will do so myself, i will still back the game and maybe play it but i won't pledge a thousands bucks for it anymore. 20-25 is enough.

Suckerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

inXile better stick to their "no combat-related refunds" policy.

 

[Infinitron]

Ironically, the more people ask for refunds, the less chance they have of getting one.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I bet he didn't pledge 1k. These i want refundz people always make shit up to make it seem like their pledge has a big impact.

If he did, it's funny how the game is worth $1000 with RTwP, but just $25 without.

 

[Grunker]

The price of a good combat system is $975, no change.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=92767192&postcount=702

Who is this bitter fruitcake on NeoFAG? He even has a Codex emoticon as an avatar.

Originally Posted by TucoBenedictoPacifico

Yes, they were. They stated openly and loudly that they were still undecided about real-time or turn-based battles since the KS was just in its first days. I remember it distinctly myself.
I think you could easily find comments about that topic even on this forum, searching the main thread.

People who backed the project knew (or at least should have known, if they paid any attention to what they were funding) that turn-based battles were a possibility from the beginning.
Pretending right now that there was a "betrayatlon" or a fraud is pathetic and ridiculous.

No they weren't. It was mentioned twice in update 14, neither time in the main body of the update. The two comments were made were in the vision document and towards the end of Tony Evans youtube video on combat both released two days before the deadline after the majority of submissions were made. The vision document prevaricates a bit, to be fair it does say it will offer a chance for backers to offer "input and insight" but then muddies the water with the whole "it's your game, after all" at the end of the section on combat, and Tony Evans is explicitly says "we're making the combat system YOU want." which isn't exactly what has happened which was more a long lines of "here's what we want to do and a long list of reasons of why we want to do it and oh there's also some other system which we really don't want to do, tell us it's ok to go ahead, and even if you don't we'll do it anyway."

Here's exactly what the vision document says

We want a system that won’t get in your way. We want a system that’s fun. Most important, we want the
system that you want. Our plan is to come up with two or three high level designs, describe how we’d
implement them to achieve the above goals, explain what we see as the advantages of each, and then let
you, the backers, offer your input and insight. Whatever we decide, we’ll make it great, ensuring that the
system delivers on the above promises.
It’s your game, after all.

Bold supports community choice, Italics support InXile's veto. It was never more explicit than that, and taken with Tony Evans video in the same update they implied more collaboration than what we got.

It was an illusion of choice, not the collaborative choice they trailed pre funding deadline. They might have thought they were being crystal clear but really they weren't. They might have been clearer on other forums, media or in the below the line comments but there was never a clear unambiguous comment in the main body of text on the kickstarter site. That's not being clear, quite the opposite really, given that the majority of backers will just read the main updates.

At no point pre funding deadline was there an explicit mention of an advisory vote, and I didn't expect them to heavily egg one system over the other (I expected an even presentation, they in no way presented a compelling case for RTwP) then reinforce that egging when the non favored system took an early lead in voting.
​

These manchildren are so incredibly pissy and whiny, it's unbearable. It's always a great delight to see them moan and cry, especially for the dumbest of reasons.

 

[Tigranes]

That dlux guy just seems to have some issues.

He abandoned the Project Eternity forums never to return when Josh announced there would not be XP for kills. He has yet to ever log back into his profile.

And now he's acting the same regarding the Torment combat style. When I asked him about P:E on the Torment comments he stopped posting.

Oh, I wondered where he went.

I'm reasonably sure the combat will be mediocre either way, so I don't really care, but I can actually sympathise. It's not quite the same as Fallout 3, but it does represent yet another major way in which the game is differing from the original Torment. I don't actually expect 'Torment' anymore from the rpoject, but I still have a lot of goodwill for what I hope will be a very good game. But if some backers really do want a Torment 2 or close to it, then I can understand them being annoyed.

(Of course, they really shouldn't have had a poll, as I kept saying. Whatever refunds they get now is purely inXile's fault.)

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

That dlux guy just seems to have some issues.

He abandoned the Project Eternity forums never to return when Josh announced there would not be XP for kills. He has yet to ever log back into his profile.

And now he's acting the same regarding the Torment combat style. When I asked him about P:E on the Torment comments he stopped posting.

Avoid the urge to get a bead on this one dlux. Avert!

 

[tuluse]

Giving someone $1000 to make a game without doing the bare minimum of research into it, and then withdrawing 97% of it because you don't like a decision they made

 

[Zombra]

Who is this bitter fruitcake on NeoFAG?

... Tony Evans is explicitly says "we're making the combat system YOU want." which isn't exactly what has happened ...

Um ... does he know that turn-based won the popular vote? :eyeroll:

 

[Crooked Bee]

Who is this bitter fruitcake on NeoFAG?

... Tony Evans is explicitly says "we're making the combat system YOU want." which isn't exactly what has happened ...

Um ... does he know that turn-based won the popular vote? :eyeroll:

He and a few other posters seem to claim InXile rigged the voting, basically:

The issue is that they did not present the options as an equal, undecided choice in the poll, and when the option they favored was losing despite that, they adjusted their presentation mid-polling in order to achieve the "confirmation" of a decision already made. Do you really not see any problem with that?

By "adjusted their presentation", he means that InXile saw that RTwP was winning and changed the options' descriptions in the poll in favor of TB. Dunno if that's actually true, but even if so, that implies most people who voted actually read that text, which I very much doubt.

 

[Infinitron]

On the contrary, by presenting turn-based as their favored option, inXile may have triggered a mass stampede of RTwP backers eager to save their game from the evil turn-based. So it could very well have worked AGAINST turn-based. It might have won by a larger margin if they hadn't said they preferred it.

 

[Mrowak]

By "adjusted their presentation", he means that InXile saw that RTwP was winning and changed the options' descriptions in the poll in favor of TB.

That would be pretty much pointless. For one thing it assumes that there were truck loads of people who did not know the difference between both systems, which is not suported by empirical evidence.

Besides, say what you want but inXile were pretty adamant about their preferences right from the start - I don't think they were disingenuous at any point.

 

[Crooked Bee]

On the contrary, by presenting turn-based as their favored option, inXile may have triggered a mass stampede of RTwP backers eager to save their game from the evil turn-based. So it could very well have worked AGAINST turn-based. It might have won by a larger margin if they hadn't said they preferred it.

Heh, now try convincing all those butthurt posters about that.

Besides, say what you want but inXile were pretty adamant about their preferences right from the start - I don't think they were disingenuous at any point.

Yeah, but that's exactly what people saying InXile rigged the poll are accusing them of -- that they were too much in TB's favor in what should've been a neutral community vote.

 

[Sensuki]

Anyone else find it odd that the vote closed like half a week before the Wasteland 2 beta comes out? Brian Fargo's very specific words ... 2.5 weeks ...

Come next week when we get our hands on the WL2 beta, we may find out Wasteland 2 combat ends up being horrible, but it will be too late then

 

[tuluse]

Yeah, but that's exactly what people saying InXile rigged the poll are accusing them of -- that they were too much in TB's favor in what should've been a neutral community vote.

This seems like an odd argument to me. It's not their job to figure out some hypothetical universal preference. It's their job to figure out the best solution to the game they're making. So if they have an idea of what that is, they should be compelled to let the backers know that.

I will never know this level of anguish over a combat system, so it's hard to relate.

 

[Sensuki]

Well people were pretty vocal about not liking the durability mechanic in Project Eternity

I even wrote a 2000 word+ essay on it because I was bored, but I just thought that having Durability as a bonus for taking the Crafting skill was a dumb design decision.

 

[Xor]

Bester said

Most people who voted TB don't even understand what it is, confusing it with rtwp.

Others just heard TB must be some RPG hardcore thing.



Neither of the two groups actually played a TB game.



A small part of those who voted actually played and understood the concept. Ridiculous.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64...-ruin-torment-by-making-it-turn-based/page-14
He's still at it,eh...

Holy shit, Gromnir's still around.

 

[Mrowak]

On the contrary, by presenting turn-based as their favored option, inXile may have triggered a mass stampede of RTwP backers eager to save their game from the evil turn-based. So it could very well have worked AGAINST turn-based. It might have won by a larger margin if they hadn't said they preferred it.

Heh, now try convincing all those butthurt posters about that.

Besides, say what you want but inXile were pretty adamant about their preferences right from the start - I don't think they were disingenuous at any point.

Yeah, but that's exactly what people saying InXile rigged the poll are accusing them of -- that they were too much in TB's favor in what should've been a neutral community vote.

That an undeniable fact that they favoured TB, but there is no requirement against it, because from the start the vote was advisory in nature. So as creators they may be biased however they please. This vote was conducted to feel the ground and probe if they can make a shift to TB safely which they openly admit (http://tormentrpg.tumblr.com/post/69209073598/vote-and-thank-you):

Some have asked why we carried through with the vote when we had a preference. Simple: we are making this game for you, and as part of our Kickstarter, we promised you that you’d have a say. If the vote had been skewed hugely in favor of RTwP, we would have expanded and modified our vision for Torment to provide the experience the majority of you wanted.

Besides, there's a draw, hence they can pick the system they prefer.

 

[Space Satan]

 

[Zombra]

He and a few other posters seem to claim InXile rigged the voting, basically ...

I see. There are half a dozen obvious counterarguments to that, but since you're not actually playing devil's advocate, there's no real reason to get into it further here.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Yeah, I don't have a Neogaf account so I can't even re-post any of your arguments there.

Perhaps if someone has an account there he could try convincing Durante et al that the poll outcome's not as fraudulent as they think -- Durante in particular seems to be really bitter about this.

 

[Infinitron]

Yeah, I don't have a Neogaf account so I can't even re-post any of your arguments there.

Perhaps if someone has an account there he could try convincing Durante et al that the poll outcome's not as fraudulent as they think -- Durante in particular seems to be really bitter about this.

Or Durante can just come here.

 

[Athelas]

Durante obviously wanted real-time combat in the vein of Dark Souls.

 

[VioletShadow]

I'm loving the comments on the kickstarter page.

 

[hoverdog]

Bester said

Most people who voted TB don't even understand what it is, confusing it with rtwp.

Others just heard TB must be some RPG hardcore thing.



Neither of the two groups actually played a TB game.



A small part of those who voted actually played and understood the concept. Ridiculous.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64...-ruin-torment-by-making-it-turn-based/page-14
He's still at it,eh...

Holy shit, Gromnir's still around.

HA! Good Fun!