Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Thread

Beowulf

Arcane
Joined
Mar 2, 2015
Messages
1,964
Take a dialogue that goes:

"I offer lore that is the start of an interesting side quest."
1. [Persuasion 60%] As a fellow knowledge-seeker, I would love to hear it.
2. [Intimidate 20%] Tell me or die!
3. So what.
Totally worthless. No player will take #2 (as its odds are lower); if his stats are such that the odds are flipped, then he will take #2 rather than #1, of course. And no player will take #3. Furthermore, there is a 40% chance that the player will reload -- if he takes #1 and fails the check.

(In fact, AOD suggests that even if you replace these rolls with threshold checks, players will go berserk about their inability to get this sidequest without foreknowledge of the necessary thresholds.)
Maybe the player character shouldn't have powers of foresight and mindreading and therefore able to know exactly what their odds of passing said skill check are?
Unless, of course, the player is actually psychic or really good at reading people. Hey, maybe this could be actual features in an RPG character system or something. :roll:

Stop blaming players for bad design choices by game developers.

The thing is, that usually there are no interesting (even if negative) consequences for failing those skill checks. Usually you'll be denied some sidequest, companion or the area will aggro on the player. And that's it.
Limited saving in Kingdom Come (until you learned to brew the magical save potion in such quantities as to make it a non issue) worked well, because you had to deal with the situation you got into, which usually resulted in running away. But it didn't feel like you arbitrarily got locked of some interesting content because you had too low stats and the RNG wasn't in your favour.

Hell, I did my fair share of save-scumming in BG games just because of that.
 

Imrahil

Educated
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
47
Back to it, more massive SPOILERS will follow, including some that reveal the whole plot & end of the game that I kept out of the previous post just so I could put this BIG MASSIVE SPOILER WARNING on this one!!!

Also, the TLDR subhuman cousin-fuckers are gonna hate this one.

- Go through the Maw where I left off last time. Ok, so it actually leads me "out", back to the Bloom proper. If I’d known, I’d have done that & ended there. No real difference. With some better idea of what the game wants me to do in the short term (see below), I go back to meet with the "Memovira". I'm anticipating a fight, but we'll see.
- I go around selling junk & decide, even though my stats aren't really depleted, to rest before the big showdown. Just in case my instincts weren't correct, the chick who lets you in to see the Memovira says I should clear up any unfinished business before proceeding.
- Ok, so last big-ass SPOILER WARNING. I’m gonna spoil the whole endgame from here on out…

- The Memovira is The First Castoff! dun dun dun! Apparently her plan is likely to destroy all the Castoffs as well. I mean, I guess I really have known my purpose this whole time. It was really no more complicated than it appeared. Still don't know why I should care though.
- But oh well, let's get this over with. I've got the 3 Big Bads (First, Changing God, Sorrow) to confront somehow, so let's confront the Memov... er, the First Castoff. She reveals to me that... she's the First Castoff! um? oh, I guess maybe it's possible to get here without having learned that? Anyway, she opened a door & giant blue wang (Watchmen flashbacks) comes out of it, which is apparently the Resonance Chamber.
- Apparently we can use it to sever the Tidal connection that "draws the Sorrow to us like a war moth." Nothing in this game has disappointed me more than the fact that I can't ask follow-up questions about war moths.

- Among the various Castoffs we're facing is someone from Matkina's past, so side-dialogue ensues.
- The First "slips up" (ha! I got her monologuing!) & says the Chamber can be used to suck every Castoff into one body. I wonder if I'll get a chance to do that? (spoiler: I never find out)
- I tell her her plan will kill us all & that Thom told me so.
- That shakes her a bit, but she wants to proceed. Out of morbid curiosity, I tell her to activate the Chamber & follow her plan. The Sorrow appears to stop us. The idiot Castoffs following the First run into Sorrow Fire & gradually kill themselves. OK.

- It wasn't quite the suicide mission I was expecting - we're all back in the Labyrinth, & there's a new portal & the Ghostly Woman of Exposition who tells me I need to open the Resonance & stop the Changing God. *sigh* This could not be more tedious if it tried. I have to run around & "free" various Castoffs from their mental prisons. I get on with it.
- I have no party members so I add Oom. I start wandering around easily succeeding at Int checks to free the various Castoffs.
- But wait! Something actually surprised me & made me happy! Rhin is here! My little girl is all grown up! She joins me.

- Back to the tedium of freeing Castoffs (later update: there is no payoff to this): Somehow Erritis is here & I free him from the golden glow - he vanishes. Later I find Callistege as well. Help her get to the Datasphere she's been looking for &... she's gone. I found Matkina here, too, but had to figure out how to free her. Eventually I do & she joins me, because Castoff, meaning I have a full party again.
- I guess, having raised my Hindsight, the optimal party would be Oom, Matkina, & Rhin, then when Rhin leaves, rotate in the others as needed, maybe focusing on Callistege & Erritis? I dunno – I probably missed some important stuff from the others. That way you have the most experienced endgame party.
- Also, it took me getting into a combat to realize this, but my little girl Rhin now has an ability to basically Heal us all for 20 hp any time I want. With 4 Edge in Int & the skill costing 5 Int, well, you do the math. Also, both of us can Animate Balefire for free to get a summon. Oom is pretty useless but he has 2 points in Healing so I give him the Healing potions to carry as support. Having high Hindsight now, I should have transferred all the potions to myself from Callistege before confronting the First. They’re gone now.
- We take the Path to the Resonance.

- Basically more freeing Castoffs, but now it's in the midst of combat, so my team has to hold people off while I go talk to the hostile Castoff & get them to stand down. Great, the same tedium as before, but now in the midst of combat!
- Plow through, enter a chamber with the First facing the Changing God. Listen to them talk a bit. Ah, this is in the past. So... not the end. crap. I have to help the First I guess. Doing so opens a new portal. At least it gives Rhin enough xp to get another Edge in Int, so her Mass Heal is free now.

- Five platforms I have to move between. Talk to The Ghostly Woman of Exposition again. She creates bridges between all the platforms. I could apparently ask her to heal me, but between Rhin's Infinite Group Heals & me never using Int but still getting 100%, I don't need it. I mean, I do it anyway because I doubt I'm coming back here (Rhin gets a few Int back; Matkina a few Speed back).
- Again, I have to go to the map screen to find out the portal leads to The Deepest Fathom - why can't the regular walking around interface tell me that?

- Ugh. There are 3 doors. The middle one is sealed. The right & left are CYOA to open the middle. I mean? really? Use the left one - I'm the Changing God, learn some backstory I already knew. The Ghostly Woman of Exposition is his daughter (I figured that out already), I go to the right-hand door. More CYOA. I'm in the chamber I dropped from at the start. I'm holding my staff in my hand. kinky. ooh, not... umm, ok, it's a talking staff, it’s the advisor from the left door. I study it...
- "it feels like coming home. It is a comforting ally. It is the cornerstone to this moon, a key to every lock." maybe my first impression was correct? but no, the staff gives me some background & I eventually see the start of the game, when I plummeted to the surface.

- Back to the 3 doors. The First shows up. So it's me (& companions), the First, the Changing God, & his daughter (The Ghostly Woman of Exposition). I'm tempted to just tell tCG to "go for it" (which is a choice - I like that it's an option), but I really don't feel like repeating any of that prior stuff, so I tell him fuck off & die like he was Darth Canoli, a second mouth-breathing coma patient who decided to only now, after all this time, rate all my posts as TLDR, as if to announce to the world he aspires to one day comprehend anything more involved than Goodnight Moon.

- Interesting. Callistege chimes in - she's kind of a god now I guess? Rhin also talks shit to the faux Changing God. I'm liking this part. Apparently this isn't the Changing God - just the Specter - the assistant from before. We convince him of that, he says the Changing God is dead (I never find out more about this). He disappears.
- Oh no! Rhin's got to leave. *sniffle* again. My little adopted daughter's all grown up. Bye, Rhin!

- Through the middle door: The Sorrow is here. Apparently Oom has to teach people about the Tides, the Sorrow has to shut that shit down. Oom wants to die by the Sorrow's hand, so I let it.
- The Sorrow is like "your kind causes TormentTM by abusing the Tides". I honestly don't care if we do, but I'm playing along for story purposes. I'm apparently at fault for all the Castoffs & all the crap they've done ("Agony bleeds from the world at your passage." bleh). Also, apparently me convincing the Specter the Changing God is dead makes it "true enough". Jesus.

- This just makes no sense. If what the Sorrow is saying is true, then why are we only now having this philosophical conversation? This is such a cop out - "the Sorrow was right all along & has a bunch of different solutions" is just dumb. This is a totally different "character" I'm talking to now. It has zero connection to my prior experiences with the Sorrow. It'd be like in IWD if Behlifet was suddenly, at the very end, like "oh, no, I was totes trying to protect Ten Towns & you were the actual threat! Care to die now to save everyone?"

- I just don't care at this point & want the easiest way to the end. I *want* to pick the fuck you option, but... I just can't muster up the energy for it. I pick the most amusing option: "Merge us all into Matkina." (because that will go well, I'm sure) I get +Gold Tide, so that was apparently Good? whatever. I only wish I could have given this all to my lil’ girl Rhin.
- I get that slow-scrolling bug again, but can't save & quit. I let some memories come & am back in the Memovira's Palace for some reason. Thought I was supposed to be dead? The Sorrow is here, tells Matkina she's the last of the Castoffs & is free to do what she wants; is this game finally over?!? Ah, I guess so - she's her own being, not even a Castoff. Get some final parting comments from the characters present. Game Over. End slides.

- Aligern got nothing. Good. Callistege is in the Data Sphere. Matkina got a happy ending. Tybir was still useless & a failure. Erritus became a herdsman again. Oom died. Rhin returned to her world. The Endless Battle ended (um?). Some boring people did boring things. QED.
 
Last edited:

Imrahil

Educated
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
47
I hate to say this, but... this is basically the end of anything interesting about this game. There is Erritis' conclusion which might interest you. Or Matkina's, if you're being incredibly generous. But otherwise, the rest of the game is a waste of pixels, work and time.
You were right, but I had to finish.

Final thoughts:
- There was a lot of potential here. It just wasn't capitalized upon. And billing it as a successor to PS:T was its ultimate downfall IMO. Presented as a completely unrelated, new game, I might have enjoyed it more. Not enjoyed it, just enjoyed it more. Still would have disjointed quests, no motivation for my character (until super late), still an opaque backwards rules system, but I think I'd have enjoyed the overall story more if I wasn't constantly comparing it to PS:T, because it asked me to.
- It does suffer from PoE/Deadfire "A [nonsense-word] from the realm of [nonsense-word] did a [nonsense-word] because it wanted to find a [nonsense-word] in order to bring about the [nonsense-word]." My eyes glaze over after the 2nd, 3rd [nonsense-word] maybe, in an exposition dump. Maybe if a game is going to do that, just offer hyperlinks to some sort of in-game wiki. Like if I want to know what the race of [nonsense-word] are all about & why they care about the [nonsense-word] item, I can hover over it or click on it. For the most part, I just don't care about massive lore dumps from random NPCs.

- I finished with +6 Edge in Int & 26 Int points. I guess if I'd picked something other than Nano, it'd be more difficult, but this was just a cakewalk. I wound up putting +2 Edge in Might because I just didn't need any more Edge in Int & the rest of my party was Might-poor.

- SO many "quests" need hyper-specific objects that are, OMG coincidentally found right around the corner! It's amazing how lucky I was.

- I don't like how just asking most obvious questions influences your "Tides". I don't feel like I have control over my character's development. As in, my Nano, as I play her, pursues knowledge, which is, apparently Blue Tide. But I often have her ask "oh, can I help?" - & that increases Gold Tide. I don't actually *want* to help or be Gold - it's not my intent - but in my pursuit of *what's going on here - give me more information*, I raise my Gold Tide. I'm only asking the NPC to find out more knowledge about what’s going on & this is the only way. Walking away without knowing seems... um, anti-Blue? But in doing so, I'm in a race against Gold to keep my girl Blue. I can't be curious about what's going on & also be Blue Tide? My motivations for "asking" don't factor in - it's not because I want to be Good/Gold, it's that I want to know what's going on & maaaybe get more knowledge in the exchange. It lacks nuance: why am I asking this question?
- So, fwiw, I think it'd be better, if you're gonna have an in-game "alignment" system like this, that you allow for motivations in dialogue - like "ask who stole your item [Blue: seeks knowledge on what's happening]" & also "ask who stole your item [Gold: I want to help]". Sometimes I don't even want to help - I just want to know what's going on. Pigeon-holing questions into one specific motivation is fine if your character development isn't tied to asking a particular question, but here it is.

- Overall, I guess it could be a run-of-the-mill C or C+ game. The fact that it tries to be a successor to PS:T drops it to a D though, because it wants me to compare & it suffers for the comparison.
 

The_Mask

Just like Yves, I chase tales.
Patron
Joined
May 3, 2018
Messages
5,899
Location
The land of ice and snow.
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
- But wait! Something actually surprised me & made me happy! Rhin is here! My little girl is all grown up! She joins me.
I know that while you're reading this now, you're not going to like me, but: this feeling of you being "happy" is manipulation at its finest, and literally shameless.
When you will have time to sit down and look at that moment will some chill, you'll realize there is no real emotion there. There are 2 separate characters, and liking the 2nd one is the end product of a very subtle and refined process of manipulation.
- Oh no! Rhin's got to leave. *sniffle* again. My little adopted daughter's all grown up. Bye, Rhin!
For perspective, imagine Chris Avellone writing something like this in P:T. This is incredibly manipulative, shallow and disconnected from themes and world. Hack writing.

- Overall, I guess it could be a run-of-the-mill C or C+ game. The fact that it tries to be a successor to PS:T drops it to a D though, because it wants me to compare & it suffers for the comparison.
You're being incredibly generous.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
Patron
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Messages
11,572
Location
Black Goat Woods !@#*%&^
Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I know that while you're reading this now, you're not going to like me, but: this feeling of you being "happy" is manipulation at its finest, and literally shameless.
When you will have time to sit down and look at that moment will some chill, you'll realize there is no real emotion there. There are 2 separate characters, and liking the 2nd one is the end product of a very subtle and refined process of manipulation.
In other words, the writers did a good job eliciting an emotional response from a fictional situation. I don't see the problem :)
 
Self-Ejected

Thac0

Time Mage
Patron
Joined
Apr 30, 2020
Messages
3,292
Location
Arborea
I'm very into cock and ball torture
This is incredibly manipulative

Nothing against you, but this whole shebang about emotionally manipulative writing is the biggest piece of shit that has come up in recent literature discussion. A text is meant to manipulate your emotions, that is why you read it. You either think the story beat or charater arc is well executed or badly executed, but saying that something is emotionally manipulative and therefore bad is retarded. And this language is used way too often in recent times.
 

AdamReith

Magister
Patron
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
2,109
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Interesting to note your criticism on the lack of or inconsistancy of an over-arching motivation for your party.

I was thinking recently that this is often the thing that absolutely ruins the modern CRPGs for me. PoE had this issue for me, D:OS2 had it too. Modern games seem to have this expectation that if they drop you into a toy box you'll be in ecstasy for hours just banging bricks together.

If I think back to the classics however, it was never about killing a spider it was about getting one step closer to wringing a certain persons neck or solving some great mystery.

I suppose weaving a thread like this into the narrative is what is known as "challenging".
 
Self-Ejected

Thac0

Time Mage
Patron
Joined
Apr 30, 2020
Messages
3,292
Location
Arborea
I'm very into cock and ball torture
Interesting to note your criticism on the lack of or inconsistancy of an over-arching motivation for your party.

I was thinking recently that this is often the thing that absolutely ruins the modern CRPGs for me. PoE had this issue for me, D:OS2 had it too. Modern games seem to have this expectation that if they drop you into a toy box you'll be in ecstasy for hours just banging bricks together.

If I think back to the classics however, it was never about killing a spider it was about getting one step closer to wringing a certain persons neck or solving some great mystery.

I suppose weaving a thread like this into the narrative is what is known as "challenging".

I agree that this is a big part of what makes DOS2 and POE less engaging, but I don't think TON has that problem beyond maybe the first area. This game's equivalent of the Shadows in the Specter is quite proactive, he often shows up to show you that you and your entire race of castoffs will be annihilated if you do not solve the plot. The game also tells you pretty clearly that you have to find your daddy in the changing god to resolve this.
There is a bit little emotional weight behind that draw, since you have no reason to feel in any way special about the Changing God and the Spectre, apart from needing the former for your survival, but it is a clear narrative hook.
 

The_Mask

Just like Yves, I chase tales.
Patron
Joined
May 3, 2018
Messages
5,899
Location
The land of ice and snow.
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
Nothing against you, but this whole shebang about emotionally manipulative writing is the biggest piece of shit that has come up in recent literature discussion. A text is meant to manipulate your emotions, that is why you read it. You either think the story beat or charater arc is well executed or badly executed, but saying that something is emotionally manipulative and therefore bad is retarded. And this language is used way too often in recent times.
That's not what I meant. I meant that the game is making you become attached to a character, but then 10s later gives you "the same character" which happens to be the mature version of the one you had, expecting you to be invested, when there is a big difference between a 10 year old, and 25 year old.

They're completely different people. And the emotional investment isn't there for me. It's in stark contrast to, whatever is happening on screen, is demanding of me.

Do you understand?
 

Efe

Erudite
Joined
Dec 27, 2015
Messages
2,597
what you say is true if you ignore entire adventure taking place and just focus on the switch
 

Imrahil

Educated
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
47
You're both right - looking back, I could have triggered the "Rhin leaves" event right before I initiated the events that led me to the Endgame where she returns, so it's possible she wouldn't have been gone all that long. But, for me, she was gone a long time (I had Matkina with me for quite a while), & showed back up when I was stripped of my companions, so to see her again was 1) written to be manipulative, but 2) worked on me. Because I wasn't expecting it & I was bereft of companions at the time (I added Oom! - just to have a party member).

I mean, I also admit I exaggerated my emotions* during my recaps. I did the exact same thing, kinda - trying to inject emotion into my writing, or even exaggerating the emotion I did feel, so I can't really criticize the game for doing that as well.

But, I basically agree with both of you - it was blatantly manipulative, but it also kinda worked. If the writing makes me care about the characters (some worked, others didn't), then it worked. That's it's purpose. OTOH, it failed in regards to the plot (didn't care), the setting (didn't care). So despite the minor success with making me connect with some of the party characters, the overall writing was bad.

*except, of course, for my disdain for those shitstain TLDR heroin addicts like Darth Canoli who actually, after I devoted one sentence to emasculating him in my final recap, took time away from giving blowjobs for crack as his day job to go back through this whole thread, seek out *all* my posts, & rate them TLDR, like some autistic cumguggler who thinks he's going to level up by swallowing every diseased cock in the prison to complete his collection of STDs like they're Pokemon cards. I mean... I guess that part was kinda real.
 
Joined
May 7, 2021
Messages
206
Imrahil

1) You seem upset. I don't care what's wrong with your home life, leave it at home and do your job.

2) I'm "baffled" how someone could be on the Codex two years and still lose his fucking mind when someone presses a rating button.

3) Your incredulity at someone pressing a single button without substantial cause seems strange in the face of your decision to compose an entire attack post without substantial cause.

4) Your posts are in fact long, meandering, and unfriendly to read. Learn what a paragraph is. Learn what an introductory sentence is. Learn how to make bullet points without starting every damn one with a weak qualifying clause. I mean jesus, read that shit back. You could honestly cut half the words from that monstrosity without losing any information.

5) Apologizing for dumping a bunch of disordered notes like diarrhea into the thread does not excuse you from dumping a bunch of disordered notes like diarrhea. Stop apologizing and get good. Learn to organize your thoughts and present them in a way that is readable.

6) If you choose to continue making low-effort posts, recognize the hypocrisy of complaining about low-effort responses.

7) Personal attacks reveal your own insecurities and undercut your credibility. Learn to work without them.

8) I hope you had a nice weekend and that these tips help you avoid unflattering ratings in the future. Good luck!
love.png


Fuuuuck, you're right. I hope I don't type like this.
 

Reapa

Doom Preacher
Joined
Jul 10, 2009
Messages
2,340
Location
Germany
Xamenos I think that's true, but D.E. is unique and maybe not replicable.
How so? I see nothing at all that is unique or non-replicable about its approach. It does require more effort, probably more than double. But I see no other way you can make it work. It's either this, or you accept your players will savescum. Or you forbid savescumming and filter the vast majority who doesn't enjoy that.
who is this vast majority you speak of? the natural spread of opinions is always a bell curve. under normal circumstances you'd get 50% of players in favor of ironman and 50% against it.
of course your game can't suck if you want people to enjoy it rather then speed through it even at the cost of cheating.
of course your game can't be a pile of shitty cut scenes. of course your game can't be linear as fuck with mandatory dialogues that always play out the same and just waste the player's time.
but this is all on the developer.
if i fail at some point in the game resulting in an end game and have to start over, make sure i can skip exposition. make sure i can take a different path. make sure i have freedom and options. make sure that what i have learned already is not gonna be explained to me again like with some retarded mandatory tutorial.

let's take Solasta as an example. it's so bad i couldn't stomach one playthrough.
why the fuck would a combat oriented rpg bombard the player with cut scenes? unskipable voiced dialogues? a mandatory lengthy introduction? a mandatory tutorial introduction into the game mechanics of d&d? ffs!!! most of the retards who even want to try out this shit want to because it's d&d so they know some basics. it should be entirely up to them to discover whatever they don't know yet. the motherfucker who developed that game wouldn't even let you leave the city without buying 4 rations of food first. why? it even has autosaves, so if you leave and die to starvation you can reload without even having to have saved yourself.
do you think letting people savescum is gonna make the game more enjoyable? no, it's crap.
make a good game and you will get away with ironman because people will want to beat it, instead of deleting it in disgust.
 

Xamenos

Magister
Patron
Joined
Feb 4, 2020
Messages
1,256
Pathfinder: Wrath
who is this vast majority you speak of? the natural spread of opinions is always a bell curve. under normal circumstances you'd get 50% of players in favor of ironman and 50% against it.
This is bullshit straight out of your ass. Opinions don't follow a bell curve you retarded niggerfaggot. On any topic. Check out any random poll if you don't believe me. You don't see 50% of people in favor of cannibalism because bell curve lol.

And ironman IS played only by a tiny minority. Check paradox's games. You can only earn achievements in ironman. And the easiest achievements, the one you can't play more than 10 minutes without getting, are only gotten by 30% of the players, and the numbers go down very quickly as we go to the late game achievements. Meaning 70% of the players never fired Ironman even once, and those who've finished the game ONCE in ironman are a tiny, tiny, TINY minority. Most people don't have the time or patience to lose hours of progress every time they die. You have to be living in your own world to think otherwise.

make a good game and you will get away with ironman because people will want to beat it, instead of deleting it in disgust.
What do you think is the best game ever made? How many people finished it? And how many people would have finished it if it was ironman?
 

Reapa

Doom Preacher
Joined
Jul 10, 2009
Messages
2,340
Location
Germany
who is this vast majority you speak of? the natural spread of opinions is always a bell curve. under normal circumstances you'd get 50% of players in favor of ironman and 50% against it.
This is bullshit straight out of your ass. Opinions don't follow a bell curve you retarded niggerfaggot. On any topic. Check out any random poll if you don't believe me. You don't see 50% of people in favor of cannibalism because bell curve lol.

And ironman IS played only by a tiny minority. Check paradox's games. You can only earn achievements in ironman. And the easiest achievements, the one you can't play more than 10 minutes without getting, are only gotten by 30% of the players, and the numbers go down very quickly as we go to the late game achievements. Meaning 70% of the players never fired Ironman even once, and those who've finished the game ONCE in ironman are a tiny, tiny, TINY minority. Most people don't have the time or patience to lose hours of progress every time they die. You have to be living in your own world to think otherwise.

make a good game and you will get away with ironman because people will want to beat it, instead of deleting it in disgust.
What do you think is the best game ever made? How many people finished it? And how many people would have finished it if it was ironman?
what is this paradox thing you speak of? what games are you telling me people don't want to play ironman in? are they any good?
few will play on ironman if the game is not designed for it because we don't trust dev to have made it good especially if the dev himself isn't sure the game can be played on ironman because of his incompetence.
ambushes for example are something that shouldn't exist in an ironman game unless the player is to be blamed for getting himself into an ambush.
if you just script enemies to come out of nowhere in your retarded rpg your rpg is retarded and doesn't count anyway.
are you sure you don't see 50% of people in favor of canibalism? have you asked? were they being honest?
given the choice between a bug burger and your leg i will chose your leg.

now go play some roguelikes and learn about c&c and how it is imperative that consequences are real for c&c to mean anything.
 

Aarwolf

Learned
Joined
Dec 15, 2020
Messages
441
But what for? I don't think there are people waiting for it, let alone market big enough to support it.
 
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
17,900
Location
大同
So im thinking about checking this, after few years post release what can you tell me about this, is it worth a try?
Worth a try, but without any expectations. And if it doesn't catch you, don't force yourself to continue playing just for the sake of it.

As a tip, avoid irrelevant dialogue subbranches if the low quality wordiness of it starts annoying you.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom