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Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Thread

Imrahil

Educated
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
48
Went to Miel Avest - I was expecting... more? More answers maybe. I'm still trying to figure out my goal. Defeat The Sorrow? Is that a thing? Do I care? No one else seems to really care. I still don't get why I should care about any of this*.
- So, Miel Avest just seems like a typical city hub. There's a strange obelisk-thingie that you can click on but it just seems add a weird lag to the dialogue, where it starts scrolling very slowly. Eventually I gave up, exited & restarted, problem solved.
- Seems weird that Aadiris's request that I speak to Melmoth didn't add a Journal "Quest" - a very minor thing I admit, just... odd. I mean, I don't need sign posts, just consistency to what I'm already used to. [later EDIT: nevermind - I finally realized these updates show up under the main "The Sanctuary of Miel Avest" - which, heh, I suppose is a pretty big hint that this the True Path To Follow]
- It feels like we're supposed to get some explanation here as to what's going on (like maybe this is supposed to be the Ravel part where it all comes together), & maybe I'm misinterpreting all this dialogue, but it feels like: "A MacGuffin did a MacGuffin which means a MacGuffin (OMG!) makes all of us MacGuffin! And thus we have MacGuffin powers (dun dun!) [I already knew that]. So... we totes need to stop the MacGuffin, or maybe not, because it may or may not MacGuffin us, but who knows? But to do so (or not) you need to find MacGuffin, or maybe MacGuffin will happen. Anyway, nobody really knows?" It's all so vague & nobody knows & due to that, & the jargon, I don't understand why I shouldn't just fuck off & wipe my hands of this.
- Anyway I keep going, because there's more game
- Aadiriis's motives seem pure - esp if you have Matkina with you to question her - I told Matkina to "forgive, but don't forget", & Aadiriis got snippy with me. Don't like her.
- So, I have have to resolve two idiots' argument. To go back to my "influence my Tides" point a few posts above, when I ask them for more information on their feud after hearing both sides, it raises Gold & Indigo. I chose that option simply because I wanted Blue (knowledge). In any case, it oddly seemed to solve the quest just by asking?!? Just asking them for more information, instead of picking a side in their dispute. I'm so confused.
- I thought this was gonna be a big philosophical discussion on which viewpoint was right. Instead - "I need more information" *wins*. I feel like I missed something here. But Aadiriis accepts it. To summarize: heard both sides, chose "I need more info" thinking Blue, got Indigo & Gold, &... done!
- So now Aadiriis wants to hear my view on The Endless Battle, like it's some big "What can change the nature of a man?" question (there's 12 options for answers). Me: "I don't care." Closest thing is "Frankly, it's none of my business."
Not acceptable apparently. 2nd choice: "It's not my business..." That seemed to work.

- I'm not one to look for a "how can I go play a different game?" option, like when people ask why they can't choose to not care about Gorion dying at the start of BG1, or "I don't care about Imoen" in BG2, or just abandon Ten Towns at the start of IWD, because that's rejecting the premise of the game at the start, but this is deep into the story. If I haven't been convinced of a purpose or seen or any reason to care about The Changing God vs. The First Castoff, I feel like at this point that should be a valid response. I've accepted the premise, I've played the story to this point - I still don't see why I should care.
- As an analogy, it'd be more like if Irenicus never did anything to me, Imoen was some stranger who got kidnapped, & the more you found out about the both of them, they both just seemed like assholes AND neither one had any effect on my life. Why do I care?!?
- Anyway, Aadiriis at last let me say that one life only matters insofar as the knowledge it can attain & share (+Blue), so that was nice.
- But she gave me another fucking Merecaster. sigh. And told me to take care of anything else before using it... so, obvious stopping point I guess. I'm about to leave this area.

* I'm obviously taking notes as they happen, not writing this all up in the moment, so reflecting back upon this initial point:
Shouldn't there be, throughout the game, I dunno... factions, or major characters I care about, supporting The Changing God vs the First Castoff? If that's what The Endless Battle is about & it's a thing I should be considering, & I'm supposed to form an opinion about? I met two people arguing 20 feet away from someone who wanted me to make a value judgment on the whole Endless Battle thing; they expressed different views on it. That's pretty much it. I'm supposed to care based on that + the limited comments I've heard so far? It'd be like Ravel asking me to make a value judgment on the Blood War in PS:T - you simply don't have enough information or perspective to go on at that point.

Anyway, I'm about to Merecaster out of Miel Avest & to this point in the game I no more care about the Changing God or the First Incarnation, or who wins the Endless Battle than I do about who started the Polish-Holy Roman Empire War of 1002–1018 (random Google search for an inconsequential war turned this up - but now actually, I might care more about that story - there was an assassination attempt, a King who was crowned at 3-years old & died mysteriously at 21, internal backstabbing on both sides, pagan alliances - a whole Netflix series in the making).

Also, fwiw, swapping out Matkina back out for Erritis right about now before I continue on. Just swapped Matkina in for this part because she's an Incarnation & that seemed obvious.
 

Imrahil

Educated
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
48
On an unrelated note, I'm baffled as to why someone would immediately, like within a minute of a post, add a TLDR tag to a recap of events & experiences from someone who's playing through a game & taking notes *in that game's thread*? WTF did you expect Zombra, you retarded midget? How 'bout just don't fucking read it? I just don't get how small a penis you must have to feel that telling the world you couldn't handle more than 3 sentences was important.
 

Ninjerk

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
14,323
On an unrelated note, I'm baffled as to why someone would immediately, like within a minute of a post, add a TLDR tag to a recap of events & experiences from someone who's playing through a game & taking notes *in that game's thread*? WTF did you expect Zombra, you retarded midget? How 'bout just don't fucking read it? I just don't get how small a penis you must have to feel that telling the world you couldn't handle more than 3 sentences was important.
Don't do that. You'll only make Zombra stronger.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Black Goat Woods !@#*%&^
Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Imrahil

1) You seem upset. I don't care what's wrong with your home life, leave it at home and do your job.

2) I'm "baffled" how someone could be on the Codex two years and still lose his fucking mind when someone presses a rating button.

3) Your incredulity at someone pressing a single button without substantial cause seems strange in the face of your decision to compose an entire attack post without substantial cause.

4) Your posts are in fact long, meandering, and unfriendly to read. Learn what a paragraph is. Learn what an introductory sentence is. Learn how to make bullet points without starting every damn one with a weak qualifying clause. I mean jesus, read that shit back. You could honestly cut half the words from that monstrosity without losing any information.

5) Apologizing for dumping a bunch of disordered notes like diarrhea into the thread does not excuse you from dumping a bunch of disordered notes like diarrhea. Stop apologizing and get good. Learn to organize your thoughts and present them in a way that is readable.

6) If you choose to continue making low-effort posts, recognize the hypocrisy of complaining about low-effort responses.

7) Personal attacks reveal your own insecurities and undercut your credibility. Learn to work without them.

8) I hope you had a nice weekend and that these tips help you avoid unflattering ratings in the future. Good luck!
love.png
 

Darth Canoli

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
5,689
Location
Perched on a tree
On an unrelated note, I'm baffled as to why someone would immediately, like within a minute of a post, add a TLDR tag to a recap of events & experiences from someone who's playing through a game & taking notes *in that game's thread*? WTF did you expect Zombra, you retarded midget? How 'bout just don't fucking read it? I just don't get how small a penis you must have to feel that telling the world you couldn't handle more than 3 sentences was important.

Nobody here needs nor want a report about your playthrough of this monstrosity, let alone a poorly redacted one 4 years after its release, it's not like it's an obscure title, it's a title we just want to forget.

Two aggravating factors, your butthurt and a Harebrained avatar.

Maybe you should make a let's play of DAI next, i'm sure it'll be fascinating for at least one person.

You...
 
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Alpan

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
Messages
1,340
Grab the Codex by the pussy Pathfinder: Wrath
On an unrelated note, I'm baffled as to why someone would immediately, like within a minute of a post, add a TLDR tag to a recap of events & experiences from someone who's playing through a game & taking notes *in that game's thread*?

I mean, it seems to be a pretty appropriate interval to TL;DR something.

Don't see the problem.
 

Imrahil

Educated
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
48
I must admit to being completely astounded that many people, on this particular site of all places, apparently enjoy 1) clicking on a thread for a game they hate as soon as it has "new posts" 2) in order to not read those posts & 3) to actually advertise that their attention span can't handle more than a few clicks & grunts.

Anyway, I won't let the Neanderthals stop me from something I've started so... continuing on with a pre-emptive "Fuck Off & Die" to the TLDR simpletons who like to announce to the world that they're retarded:

[Spoilers, obviously]
- The Merecaster post-Miel Avest is another CYOA. It continues the trend of using made up words & names of people & locations that mean nothing to me. I guess that's the lesson Tantalum was "teaching" me in the Valley of Dead Heroes? Probably not though.
- Reinforcing my early observations: I have so much Edge in Intellect I don't need to spend nearly any Intellect points to succeed in any checks (2 points total for the whole CYOA when I had 80% on a couple choices - on the 2nd one I got a Critical Success - all points restored, so effectively 0 spent). I've been putting Stat increases into Speed, then Might, since more points in Intellect just go to waste. Erritis handles most Might stuff, Rhin handles most Speed stuff. I pick up the slack & we succeed at everything.
- Anyway, the choices in this CYOA are pretty obvious, so I get the Copper Sphere.
- OK, finally getting somewhere - the Resonance Chamber is something the Changing God wants to use to merge all the Castoffs back into one. The First Castoff is alive & has a different plan. This really should have come earlier - took waaay too long to give me a reason to care. So, I guess(?) I have a kind of motivation now.

- Finishing all that, I met the Changing God. I chose to join him, just to see. That was temporarily amusing. Kinda like taking the Silent King's place.
- Reload: treat him like some whiny bitch who thinks making fun of someone's avatar, a random character from an RPG, on a site called RPG Codex, is an insult that I'm gonna care about - particularly somebody with a Crusaders of the Dark Savant avatar, also a random character from an RPG - and so I just tell him to go DIAF.
- I won. That was super easy, barely an inconvenience. Puny God.

- Now I'm back in Miel Avest but it's on fire & the Sorrow is attacking I guess. There's a bunch of little Sorrow fragments. Seems the best tactic is to mostly ignore them & pop the little shield generators & clear the rubble.
- I wish you could click beyond your movement range & you'd just move to the limit of your Movement. As it is, you have to hover back & forth, pixel-hunting the farthest you can run in a turn. Annoying.
- The Sorrow is kind of cool looking, even if he does sprout from the ground like a giant wang.
- Activated the Pyramid-thngie. I'm in some new place, the Bloom apparently.

- I met Dracogen, a guy who "deals in information" but also spends his time hanging around a teleport location that hasn't been used in forever (according to him), just waiting for me to show up. Very polite of him. He wants another MacGuffin, located in MacGuffin-land.
- I've noticed that over the last few areas I haven't found any new gear - weapons, oddities, cyphers, etc. I guess they stopped trying. Not a big deal, just odd that I realize as I show up at a new hub I have literally nothing new after several areas.
- More people with tales of places I've never heard of & am never going to visit. This is a recurring problem with this game.
- Whoever said up above that Erritis gets interesting was right - he's starting to question what's going on with himself. Still rolling with mostly Callistege, Rhin, & Erritis at this point, swapping in a 4th for Erritis when it's obvious to do so (like, I need to swap in Tybir at some point here - the signposts are flashing & obvious).
- Rhin is becoming a little Cypher-Master. With the ability to re-use them, she's become quite the little powerhouse.
- Callistege is kind of stagnating - she started off quite strong, but is helping less & less. Probably because her combat stuff has only marginally improved (probably my fault for not developing her right), but in non-combat situations, I can handle everything without her, just by virtue of being a "better" Nano.
- I think I got a Many-As-One reference in the Pylon.
- Did a cursory sweep around The Bloom. Seems a good stopping point for now.
 

Imrahil

Educated
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
48
Also, just to deal with this moron:
1) You seem upset. I don't care what's wrong with your home life, leave it at home and do your job.
...
4) Your posts are in fact long, meandering, and unfriendly to read. Learn what a paragraph is. Learn what an introductory sentence is. Learn how to make bullet points without starting every damn one with a weak qualifying clause. I mean jesus, read that shit back. You could honestly cut half the words from that monstrosity without losing any information.
Then don't fucking read them? Stop fantasizing about my home life & maybe just don't click on threads you have no interest in? I do it hundreds of times when I visit this site: I don't click on threads that don't interest me. It's not difficult.

There's a writing style called "bullet points", you elementary school dropout. Paragraphs are one writing style. Bullet points are another, & more conducive to a recounting of sequential, but often unrelated events, like recapping a playthrough of a game that takes several hours. If I'd used paragraphs & strung those sentences together instead of using bullet points, would your tiny lizard brain be able to process them better? Doubtful.

I've used paragraphs here in my response to you. Did that make it easier for your fragile little mind to comprehend them? Or was it still too much in your Cliff's Notes world?

7) Personal attacks reveal your own insecurities and undercut your credibility. Learn to work without them.
Nah, I prefer to call out morons when they do something moronic. Thanks for the advice though. Now go back to picturing my home life in your spare time.

Don't do that. You'll only make Zombra stronger.
Aw, crap. I made him stronger again, didn't I? He feeds off of opportunities to be a whiny little pussy doesn't he? Thanks for the warning. I didn't know.
 

The_Mask

Just like Yves, I chase tales.
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May 3, 2018
Messages
5,902
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The land of ice and snow.
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
The Bloom as an idea, and as far as C&C goes, is an interesting place, and obviously where they spent most of their funds on.

I suggest doing everything to appease The Bloom/ appear as a predator for, arguably, the best outcome.

But after you're done with that... despair.
 

Alpan

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
Messages
1,340
Grab the Codex by the pussy Pathfinder: Wrath
There are some independently interesting parts and ideas in T:ToN that would elevate other, more cohesively designed games but somehow fail to do so in this game because it is something less than the sum of its parts. The Bloom is certainly one of those parts, and I also liked Rhin.
 

Imrahil

Educated
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
48
That is a great way to sum up what I'm finding. There are a lot of interesting ideas, characters, & encounters, but they are so disjointed from each other. Like in the Valley of The Dead, where all these kinda interesting people don't have any reaction to the also-sorta-interesting quest-givers living right next to them

It just feels so... independent, I guess? So I imagine what happened is that independent teams developed separate quests & interactions, & some of them are quite well done. But they're right next to silly, boring [insert tons of jargon] info dumps. And they don't relate to each other. They don't acknowledge each other, much less interact with each other.

The underpinnings are there for a decent game. I'll reiterate what I said earlier: if this hadn't been billed as a "Planescape: Torment" successor, but rather some other, new game, I'd be much more receptive to it. But given that it wants me to compare it to PS:T, it fails miserably.
 

agris

Arcane
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Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,867
It is refreshing to read TToN opinions that aren’t provided by inXile apologists - a rare breed that somehow dominated the late 2010s in the pages of this mercurial magazine.

Tbh I couldn’t get past the poor production (writing, mechanics, aesthetics, UI) to experience areas such as the Bloom. TToN was my Underworld Ascendant. WL2 was already eurojank-reject trash, and this game solidified inXile’s abilities.

And then BT4 cubed it.
 

Imrahil

Educated
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
48
On to the Bloom, relatively short update, in game-terms, not in wordiness. Basically: I didn't accomplish much.
- Finally found a benefit to all these Intellect points I've been lugging around: getting Skaydi to resist the Bloom & stop letting her critter feed off of her. Lost me 8 points to pass a bunch of Persuasion checks. Realized too late I've been carrying around a Cypher (Charmpaste) that would have really helped with that, but oh well. Somehow I doubt I'm going to be strapped for Int points.
- Cycled through my companions using the Bronze Sphere (except Aligern - I'm Team Callistege. Fuck Aligern), talked to Dracogen w/ Tybir present, asked all my companions about the Bloom. It's cheesy, I admit, to have all your companions available at a moment's notice, but I also admit I find it very convenient. Torn on this one.
- Critical success on an Int check - got all those points I mentioned back. I literally can't fail anything at this point.
- The Bloom seems a little more "connected" than other quest hubs - as in quests interact with each other to some extent. That's a welcome change from the siloed approach to previous quest hubs.

- I guess, after exploring a few more areas here, the problem is the whole area is unconnected from the rest of the game (other than that I've heard mention of it in other areas). I just went through the Miel Avest destruction, the Sorrow blowing up people, hot on my heels, & now I'm plopped down in a new "town" which has nothing to do with any of that. I guess it'd be like if if, in BG2, after Suldanessellar, instead of being taken to Hell & the final battle with Irenicus, you instead only then got taken to the Underdark. It's... anti-climactic. Undermines what was building. Poor story-telling, IMO.
- Again, to relate to BG2, I suppose they were going for an Asylum --> Underdark feeling I guess? but it doesn't work here - the Sorrow was trying to kill everyone, including me, like two second ago. That's what it does, apparently. Irenicus fled after the Asylum, so we had to chase him because I had a motivation to, but he had no motivation to care about me, so he left.

- But here, we are the pursued, not the pursuer, so taking me to a new hub seems to break the story. Or, at best, put me in the position of the one who fled, & is thus being pursued. I'm now in a new area where I guess my purpose is "git gud-er"? I had to flee our last encounter, rather than my adversary choosing to leave. It's unsatisfying, & gets back to my main, underlying problem with this game: my motivation is "off". I have nothing to pursue, other than MOAR POWER! I'm not pursuing The Sorrow, clearly - it's pursuing me. I'm constantly fleeing, until I gain levels I guess? Because it's a video game & my goal is to eventually defeat the enemy by getting better stats? This whole premise, the whole story, is backwards.
- You want to make your protagonist feel like the aggressor - seeking out resolutions & chasing down answers, or even advantages to use. Here, I'm put in the role of someone who's afraid. Who runs. Who has no idea, even this late in the game (the Bloom) what I can possibly do to affect the outcome when I inevitably confront the Sorrow again.

Ok, stopping here - honestly didn't accomplish much besides exploring the various Bloom areas & adding quests. Apparently the Bloom is acting weird & I have to go to multiple areas & 1) figure out why, 2) find Erritis a doctor who can deal with his demon, 3) find Tybir's gay butt-buddy (not that there's anything wrong with that), 4) find a job for the slave we bought b/c Rhin wanted me to & I can't refuse my little adopted daughter anything, 5) acquire some spending money b/c that researcher who was being hassled by Bloom cultists has a bunch of shit I want to buy.
 

Imrahil

Educated
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
48
[warning: more spoilers] Bloom updates, this section is really long & elaborate - this is a couple sessions in one because very little of significance happened. Still just seems like there's no real purpose here.
- Released some gross zombie-cyst thing by feeding it suffering. By far the oddest sentence I've typed in at least a day or two.
- In a nice touch of reactivity, I found a guy & his older self (time travel) working at a shop. I asked what would happen if I killed the younger self. No one seemed to know, so I killed the younger self &... not only did the older self immediately vanish, but so do the shop he had founded. Even better, I now can't remember why I killed him, since the older self told me how this happened & I've now never met the older self at all.
- Orth Faung wants me to deliver a message to Aligern. Not gonna happen.

- Some mild amusement - near the Doctors I click on something labelled "Maw". Through dialogue I get "[Anamnesis][Anamnesis]You realize suddenly that this is a Maw,..." Thanks, Anamnesis! I had been relying on my [Mouse Pointer][Mouse Pointer] 'til now to identify Maws.

- Met the bird-people. Apparently I'm supposed to get a flag for some soldier. Whatever, going through the motions because I guess I need experience.
- Ha! Erritis opened some jar from Skoura the Faceless (who apparently has a huge mouth still & some tiny ears - I dunno, name's not legit - "Mostly Faceless" I guess?) & killed us all. Reload. Turns out she can help him.
- To once again echo sorinmask from up above - Erritis starts out annoying but gets super-interesting late. The Demons that are using him even offered to make him more powerful, to help me out, but he'd die quicker. I chose to help him & refuse that offer - that's not the type of character of I'm playing but the fact that option is there is a nice touch. Also The Paragons & The Cathartics are basically... us, the players of the games, maybe? It gets a bit meta, I suppose - almost Deadpool Fourth Wall breaking.
- Aww! Rhin disarmed a trap & picked a lock. Cypher-Master & now majoring in Rogue at Sagus Cliffs University! So proud of her.
- Found a treasure room inside a Maw in the bird-people's place. Finally getting stuff I can sell, but also got another frikkin' Merecaster.

- CYOA time: Another Merecaster, got a bit Evil this time (not that it mattered) & sacrificed some fat dude to help "me" (i.e. Merecaster me) because at this point I don't care about Merecasters & I just pick options that amuse me. Oddly, that seemed to work, I guess? Found some glyphs, never snorted a worm, because gross, put a helmet on, attacked some... Jesus, I don't even know... giant alien-mind-squid? It's as stupid as it sounds. I feel dirty for even typing it out & attempting it in the game. Anyway, "won" the CYOA I guess? Can't tell. Nothing happened in the real world. I hate these things so much.
- Holy crap: I consider myself quite well-read, with a decent command of the English language. As often evidenced from previous posts I can use words like shit, fuck, & bitch quite eloquently but I just got hit with "The glyphs are intricate and strike you as ideogrammatic." I had to look that shit (see how well & in context I used that?) up:
- Ideogrammatic: A character or symbol representing an idea or a thing without expressing the pronunciation of a particular word or words for it, as in the traffic sign commonly used for "no parking" or "parking prohibited".
- Fascinating. And for any hipsters about to jump in 'cause they, like, totally knew that word back in middle school, I have an ideogrammatic middle finger waiting for you.

- After having made a cursory pass around the Bloom, exploring areas, I make a secondary pass checking off some quests & finally selling stuff. Found Rhin's slave we freed a job & told him about it, learned how to deactivate Waits-for-prey, little minor stuff like that.

- Just realized something at this point - is there a way to call back up the big scrolling dialogue window from when you're talking to people, but outside of when you're actually talking to people? I could not remember that silly Terminator-wanna-be's proper capitalization when I typed this (it's Y-n-n). The dialogue window would have helped. Luckily I picked up his head & it has his name in it. Always afraid to Google anything on a first run for fear of inadvertent spoilers.
- On a related "interface" note: can I remove Cyphers without transferring them to another character or selling them? I can't find a way. I can't drag them to my backpack. We're getting overloaded & haven't has a real combat where I could use them in forever, so they're just accumulating.
- Also, another complaint: I have to go to the Map screen to hover over exits to find out where they lead, even if I've already been there. I wish the main game interface had that as well.

- I've actually depleted most of my & my companions stats at this point, so I look for someplace to rest for the first time since I got to the Bloom.

- Got into a weird "combat", where I have to talk to the Mutants & the Memovira's Thugs & resolve a dispute. It's an interesting concept - resolve the situation through dialogue while in "Crisis" (i.e. combat) mode. But ultimately, turns out just tedious. I have to use all my characters to run around & trigger dialogue (I'm sure there's an optimal way to do it) - I have Rhin running up to a patrol Sergeant who could probably kill her because I need to initiate dialogue, not because it makes *any* sense to send my little adopted daughter into the midst of a huge melee, but simply because I'm required to trigger conversation to resolve this.
- Again: interesting concept on resolving a conflict, just godawful mechanics here. I eventually have to just have me go up to specific people & use Int to get both sides to stand down - no idea why this needed to be a "combat" situation instead of a regular dialogue.

- Met Aen-tozon. Rhin doesn't like him, so I don't either. He wants to feed on us. Weird, but OK. I talk to Rhin about it & she says let's see what he has to say. Whatever my video game daughter wants, she gets! I feel more protective of her than I did for Ciri - probably because Ciri was a bit of a badass in her own right.
- Anyway, I have to feed my connection to someone to him to find out more, so I Bronze Sphere in Tybir. Still plan to find his boyfriend, but other than Aligern (who I can't port in w/o dropping Callistege, which I refuse to do), he's my least important companion. Turns out, no downside, & Aen knows Rhin & portalled her here? To send her home I need to find someone strongly connected to me. On it.
- Met the guy who can increase my Tidal Affinity, now I guess I can talk to Oom some more. That was... fruitless. I saw Oom's world, but don't understand it much. Oh well, bring Tybir back b/c his boyfriend is nearby apparently.
- Met Wondor nearby, who also calls me Adahn. He can help with Aen. Oh... wow. I actually can send Rhin home. Just that quick. *sniffle* I do it... she's gone. Well, crap. I bring Errirtis back & continue for now with Tybir.

- Resolve more Bloom quests., Opened a Maw with grief, found a spaceship or something - took a power source from it & made a little tiny lightsaber (the scalpel), buncha long-winded stories, got Skoura an eye. I start to get that weird slow-scrolling bug in dialogue again. Quit-restart-it goes away. Tybir's boyfriend is dead apparently. Got a buncha reasons to go talk to Dracogen. Seems a good place to quit.

Overall, just going through the motions at this point. Resolving quests because they exist.
 

Imrahil

Educated
Joined
May 21, 2019
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More Bloom, more spoilers, more multiple sessions in one, but my enthusiasm is seriously waning. The TLDR mongoloids are seriously gonna be triggered by this one. I used to break these up by "chapter breaks" for significant events. But this Bloom "chapter" has turned into an interminable slog, much like reading this post will be for low IQ people like rusty_shackleford that have to ask an adult to explain the Goofus & Gallant cartoons from Highlights in the dentist's office when they get their meth teeth looked at.

Anyway, the game has turned into the equivalent of finishing a bad television series - I get the Sunk Cost Fallacy, but by god I am finishing Lost just to see how it ends!! Anyway, the lack of benchmark events or milestones both causes me to both write too much, in terms of text, & too little, in terms of actual significance, because it’s a bunch of tedium rolled into one & I can never find a clear break to just post stuff, so it all gets rolled into one giant calzone of a post.

- Talked to Dracogen - not as much interesting stuff as I expected, except to find out the truth behind Tybir & his boyfriend. Apparently he really is dead & Tybir is at least partially at fault. Oh well, never liked him much anyway, so I ditch him for Matkina.

- Found essence of being a winged hunter - a hyper-specific quest requirement, but lucky for me it was available literally right around the corner - for the King of the Bird People*. Go to give it to him, but he's mad at me for freeing a slave he stole (not actually sure how he knew it was me). I bargain him down to 200 shins (I just don't feel like spending the hour or so it would take to kill them all, plus if I've learned anything from Rick & Morty they'll just come back as Phoenix People). The game takes 350 shins from me. *sigh*
* this is where the lack of having Planescape/D&D lisences really hurts them - if they'd been able to call them the Aarakocra, I'd have thought that was quite a neat little Easter egg, but they had to make up their own dumb name for Bird People & so I don't care.

- Put on some alien helmet I found in the trash. Ah, ok. I found the Cortex earlier but I'm guessing this is how I get in. Yep, did it. Another one of those annoying "Crisis but for dialogue" things - I guess it's a way around having a timed quest but not being able to pause & issue directions to your whole squad at once. Still annoying. Tedious. And impossible to pull off if you were soloing. Whatever, succeeds.
- Returned the flag from the Bird people to the drunk soldier - looks like I could now ask him to open the Maw, but I've long since obtained a potion using his hair (ick) that will let me do it. I go ahead & see what happens - it kills me, like I care. Talked to the Catena Ghosts from the spaceship where I got the lightsaber scalpel while here & got + Int Edge - great, I totally need another way to not spend my Int points. I return & the Maw is open. I'm getting sick of the Bloom.

- Decided to explore the Maw I opened, & yep, it's the Trade District. Another Maw, entered an "alien world". yawn. How many of those is that now? Apparently this is the Ascension (looking around for Amelyssan). Talked to a giant crystal, got even more bored with this (I still have no idea what my ultimate goal is), every area of this game seems so unrelated to each other & the game itself. Moving on.
- Apparently now I can build bridges to areas I couldn't reach before. I like that there are random shins just laying around here on this alien world. That makes sense. I talked to a "Phobit" for the first time. The description says it's unlike any other Phobit I've ever seen. I mean, literally true I guess?

- Entered a Crystal Cave. I'm pretty sure I'm in Superman's Fortress of Solitude. Fiddle with a machine, *finally* get into an actual fight (been so long, since even before the previous multi-session update I think). I guess, somewhat luckily for me, my party is super combat ready - me (Nano), Callistege, Erritis, Matkina. We wipe the floor with them. I did have to rely on me for a random Innervate (Heal Party Member) on Erritis which proved to be an overabundance of caution & not needed, or I guess I could've used Callistege (carries the "potions" now) without Rhin (pbuh) to skulk about & support us all as needed but still, overall we are a crystal-murdering crew. Super easy, barely an inconvenience.

- I found some Cyphers in the Crystal People treasure room - I now have too many Cyphers (which gives me a Malus). How do I move Cyphers to my backpack? These things are really starting to get annoying. In what world do you have to EQUIP every item of a specific type that you find?!? I don't have to equip every Bonded Object I find. Or equip every weapon I find. Why do I auto-equip every Cypher I find? This is so irritating- I want to just carry them around with me like any other item - use them up as I see fit, then swap others in, or sell the extras. But I can't see any way to do so. I can Discard them (it tells you it's gone forever if you do). If I can Discard them, & if I can move them to different characters, why can't I just move them to my backpack?!?
The opportunities to use most of them are so few & far between they may as well just be a counter - "get rid of these quickly or suffer a penalty!!" /Cypher rant

- Anyway, back to the Fortress of Solitude, I now have access to a Stasis Pod - I get to... read seven "Experiment Notes". Joy. Off to the left I get the Thingie Dracogen wants. I "fight" my way out of this place - I have some dome around me now that makes the enemies powerless so we bulldoze our way out. I'm sure this was supposed to be innovative, but we spent no Effort, just ploughed through the little crystal thingies. With me & Callistege having a 100% hit chance & Erritis being able to Fell Swoop while staying in my Dome, this was more tedious than interesting. Matkina was pretty useless (probably because I added her to the core party so late).
- Trying to leave Crystal World, some whatshisname I met before (Doran) tries to kill me. Murder him (dumbass), pixel-hunt the treasure they dropped (even with TAB - you still have to find the right pixel for some reason), left, back to Dracogen I guess.

- Oh great. Things have changed. More Bloom hoops to jump through. God I hate the Bloom. I use the "Annulet" Dracogen wants me to retrieve so he'll get me an audience with The Memovira (clearly the creativity department ran out of money at this point) in order to... talk to some tentacles:
- This is how tedious it is: 1) listen to near voices; 2) listen to distant voices, 3) try to communicate with the cluster of Bloom-tongues. I do a #1 on this game; I do a #2 on this game; then I choose 3 & advance to more tedium. Oh, actually, no! I have to spend 1 Intellect point to go from 80% default to 100% success (that's new I guess). I do that, because why not? I now control the tongues. Great! Or gross? Can't decide. Mostly gross. Buncha choices, wow, this seems like a BIG impactful choice. OMG gonna have to think about this! oh wait, no, I can choose all options (not that all are successful in proceeding, but I can choose all apparently with no downside)

- Finally exit this place. Clearly Dracogen is a recurring stopping point, so, back to him. Jesus, I hope I'm about finally done with the Bloom now (hint: I’m not, I've already Preview'd my post).
- I give him the Annulet, he gets me an audience with MamaBeara. She wants me to go find her scholar in the Bloom. Great. I'm like "I have some questions first." Her: "This is not a negotiation. Go!" Um, dumbass, I wanted to know where you last saw him, where you've already looked, what resistance to expect, maybe what your scholar guy looks like?!? Jesus. Unfortunately I hate the Bloom & the Bloom hates her, so the enemy of my enemy & all that.

- I offer the Cortex to Dracogen. OMG. He wants to give me another Merecaster. I almost just take the shins, but I'm a masochist so I take the Ovoid Merecaster & use it. All those bullet points have depleted my stats again (most of us are down to 1-4 points in every stat, except Callistege still has 11 Int), so I should probably go rest for the 2nd time since hitting the Bloom (really, since hitting Miel Avest I think?).
- Merecaster: I'm apparently part a team trying to find a bunch of Cypher treasures. See? Apparently these people have figured out how to just carry around random Cyphers without equipping them! Why can't I? Still, we've apparently picked up some radioactive thingie & it winds up killing most of us. Don't care. Don't even care enough to reload & see if anything more interesting can happen.

- Looking for someone who knows about The Heart of the Bloom. bleh. A lot of misses before I get a hit: The Observant Speck (makes me think of the movie Willow). What amazing luck I have! The Maw to the Heart is right here beside me & will eat the head of Waits-for-prey to open & here I am with it in my inventory marked as an undroppable Quest Item!
- The TLDR retards don't get to me at all, but this game is beating the enthusiasm out of me.

- Anyway, I'm now in the Heart of the Bloom & 1) I can't muster the enthusiasm to keep going (for now - I'm finishing this thing goddamnit!) & 2) As I mentioned at the top, I've crammed a shitload of bullet points into this because nothing of any significance has happened.
 
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OSK

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Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
- Anyway, I'm now in the Heart of the Bloom & 1) I can't muster the enthusiasm to keep going (for now - I'm finishing this thing goddamnit!)

That's what I told myself too. I haven't touched the game since January 2019.
 

Imrahil

Educated
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
48
I do like that rusty_shackleford decided to double down & confirm what a meth-mouth lizard brain Neanderthal he is, within minutes (seconds?) of my last post, like he was just waiting, poised, for days, all this time, anxious for me to post to get, um... release. I'll try to post more frequent updates, russ, so you can experience what you call "pleasure" more often. Can't guarantee it, but thanks for confirming a theory I had.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,865
It's a sad state of affairs.
It is not. Failstates make the game interesting, but nobody will pursue failure. Like, this is logic 101, its not that "Gamers have been trained to never lose". Its that nobody that isnt a subhuman will settle for a defeat if victory is easily achieved.
Its amazing to me that seemingly smart developers fall for this shit again and again. The retarded notion that anybody will accept failure when its easier not to is something that baffles me.

If you really want to create a game where players need to live with the consequences of failure you need to force them to do it. Games with only one save slot that autosave after important choices, games that only save when you exit, or games where you are connected to the internet and keep track of your progress in real times are the sort of games in which all your work would have seen returns.

Introduce features that fit the type of game you are making and player that will play it. Theres nothing you should be disappointed about other than your own stupidity and lack of understanding of basic human nature.
 

Imrahil

Educated
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
48
Continuing on... [massive, massive story spoilers in this] Um, if you didn't read the previous text, MASSSIVE SPOILERS ENSUE. You have been warned enough.

- In the Heart of the Bloom, I have to sneak past people fighting, doesn't work, a fight ensues. I kill them with no effort. It takes longer to pixel-hunt (again, even with TAB) what they dropped than to kill them. There's another Bird Person here. My 7 or 8 points of Edge in Int mean I expend 0 points to talk to it, when that was clearly supposed to be a challenge I think? I get a Synth Egg & huh, a candy dispenser... like a Pez I guess. Oh goddammit. I spits out more Cyphers. They heal me & increase Int, two things I have no use for, but whatever, I use one (I have two) & hold on to the rest.
- In a room where I have to drop the "Bloom fluid" in a pool. Gross. I then plug a sphincter with the Synth Egg. Double gross.

- Ran into a guy who describes the Bloom as "People dwindle here. Like candles or starving men. The Bloom eats us bit by bit until only the despair is left." Pretty apt summary of my feelings towards the Bloom. The whole game really.
- In the same room with that guy I found exactly what I needed to seal the last of the 3 ducts in a pool so it can be drained. This one is not as gross as the other two but it's a remarkable coincidence that everything I needed was right here! I even found a magic rope to let me climb down the hole - wow, what a lucky Nano I am!

- So I'm fighting the Heart(?) now? maybe? I dunno - just stomping maws & cultists while Erritis carves us a way through the "walls". Eventually I open enough, um, walls/chambers & find some tongues I can control. This whole level is just gross. Every sentence I type gets weirder & weirder. Some dude named Abykos I met before is helping me. I want to try to heal him but the game says "Not an ally" & won't let me. I mean, who cares? If I want to heal a neutral, or even an enemy, especially with a projection skill, then just let me. Don't make judgment choices for me, game. Abykos dies because I can't support him & it takes me a while to figure out what to do. I eventually figure it out:
- I'm trying to take control of the tongues, because apparently enemies will just keep spawning, but my Nano, who can do it with Tidal Surge + No Int Effort, is super slow (constantly Hobbled by the Heart; I probably could have built her better or protected her from this, but oh well, she gets Hobbled almost every time the Heart thing gets a turn).

- I did pick up a Cypher (Traitor's Rings that let me swap positions with an ally* though, so while I hobble over to one set of tongues I rush Erritis (who's been Hastened this whole time & opening all the "doors" by hacking through them) to the far pair of tongues, have Callistege & Matkina Flash & Warp Dash to hold off the enemies (they are taking a bit of a beating, but Callistege has all the potions, including healing, so no big deal), eventually swap places with Erritis, & you know, show my prowess at using my tongue (that was the grossest one yet, wasn't it?). *sigh* I must gather my party before venturing forth, so I do.

* ok, what pisses me off about these things is the backstory for these Rings I sought to use tells of two Thieves: Thief #1 which never took hers off, & Thief #2 who got caught robbing a vault. Thief #2 (the one who got caught) used the ring to swap places with Thief #1 who was safe in her room. Thief #2 escaped, Thief #1 took the fall got punished. CLEARLY they didn't have a line of sight to each other, so the lore on this item contradicts its actual use, which I, in the midst of battle, improvised a plan to use based on that lore. I mean, come on game, I come up with a cool solution based on how you told me these things work, but then they don't work that way? Anyway, I move me & Erritis to the big room so we can see each other, which take an extra turn & pull the swap off. *sigh*

- Now we're Through The Heart. That was... tedious. Or, well, ok, maybe this is the actual Heart? I have no idea.

- Ah, we're at the "hey, party, any advice?" point. They don't want to go in with me. I could use Persuasion (& probably succeed, given everything I've mentioned above abut how little Int I have to spend to succeed on Int checks), but oh well. Clearly I'm meant to go in alone. I go in alone.

- Wow, I have to spend 2 whole Int points to resist the Heart & 2 more to take control. Down to "just" 11 points"
- While investigating other Int options, I get a random Critical Success - restored back to 22 Int. I may as well be playing on Story Mode at this point. Investigate more Bloom crap, delve into the Bloom's mind, I find out more than any Catstoff or even The Changing God had before! Whoohoo! What's I find out?!? Oh, nothing specific: +2 Int. Now have 24. Jesus Christ. Even when I have an unprecedented success it's boring.

- Anyway, this whole dialogue tree takes more Int checks. I don't care, I don't care about the responses. I feel like this, right here, is where the game really falls on its face:

- I'm confronting THE BLOOM (dun dun dun) & all I'm doing is passing Int checks, which cost me nothing, & sometimes gives me Crit Success. The information isn't interesting - I'm trying to find some dude, for someone I hate (The Memo-bleh-ugh) - I have no personal reason to be here - so I go through the motions. This is presented to me like something BIG, like I fought my way here & went through these (easy) trials to get here, & it's a BFG, but... I just don't care. How does this affect me?!? Why do I care? I'm doing it because some leader chick of some area I don't care about asked me to &...

- It's all so easy, & there aren't really any choices - I just choose them all, maybe spend an Int point or two (& get them all back when I Crit), but it's not anything I care about. I mean, even if I did care about the Last Castoff vs the Changing God, this has nothing to do with it. I literally can't fail most of these checks, even if I have to spend 1 or 2 Int. I guess it'd be difficult if my main was a, oh, what are they, Jack & Meleee thing? But I'm not.
- I do get a Changing God vision. But I just don't care.
- Mazzof, or I guess "Ishen" is a Castoff. Met him in some previous Merecaster I don't even recall, but apparently he's Super Important. I'm not Sixth Sesne'd by this, even though clearly I'm supposed to be like OMG MAZZOF IS ISHEN!!. It's presented like a big revelation, but I just don't care who he is. I haven't been wondering about his origin.

- Anyway, I talk to him. I *still* have no idea what my purpose is - what I want to accomplish, so I'm not sure what questions to ask this dipshit. I do ask all the questions available, because... they're available. I explore his past & someone calls him Thom - am I in harry Potter Land? This whole thing makes NO SENSE (maybe it would if I'd been paying more attention, but I'm long past caring). . To make matters worse, I pursue this line of questions about who he is & get the Frictionless Merecaster. Goddamit.

- So I use the Frictionless Merecaster (I have the masochist trait, remember).
- I immediately regret this: I'm in The Endless Battle & have to "remember" a bunch of dipshits. "The Changing God's latest ploy has paralyzed the Reconciler of Truth." And I'm supposed to care about this? "With the Reconciler sabotaged, and Heaven's Rejoinder well-defended, we may never turn the tide." I mean? What am I supposed to do with this info dump?

- All my options are a variation of "I'm in, let's get on with this.", so I guess I'm in, let's gets on with this. I eventually have to choose between two choices with no real explanation &... you know what? fuck. this. this Merececaster, I mean. Like all others, it is stupid. I just don't care. I start hitting "1" every time. I start going through the same "room".
- I reach a point where I, the you know, in game me, has to spend some Might, like a whole bunch for some reason. Whatever, I do it, I just want this over! I get into a loop of the same choices over & over. Godammit! Did they just make Merecasters even more annoying?!? Like I can't even escape from this one? I die. I do it again, because fuck you, that's why. This time I manage to confront some chicks (one might even be The First Castoff) that gives me more information. At this point I'm just clicking through choices - all these people can go DIAF. This is like those conversations with the "gods" in DeadFire - I. Don't. Care.

- Goddamn. I get through it all & am back to the "real" world, & by that I mean The Bloom with a new portal open in front of me. Jesus Christ, all that stupid fucking Merecaster shit done with, just to open a Maw. I'm just... done.

I can't take any more. I mean, obviously I'll be back to finish this out (*masochist* trait, remember). Also, I can't let the TLDR mouth-breathers win; I just need another break from this tedious game.
 

The_Mask

Just like Yves, I chase tales.
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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
I hate to say this, but... this is basically the end of anything interesting about this game. There is Erritis' conclusion which might interest you. Or Matkina's, if you're being incredibly generous. But otherwise, the rest of the game is a waste of pixels, work and time.

But good for you to have braved it so far.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
If you really want to create a game where players need to live with the consequences of failure you need to force them to do it. Games with only one save slot that autosave after important choices, games that only save when you exit, or games where you are connected to the internet and keep track of your progress in real times are the sort of games in which all your work would have seen returns.
Gamedevs don't have the balls to take the quickload spam(aka cheating) away.
Gamers say they hate it until they actually play a game that uses said features then suddenly they see that it's good design and like it. Look at the popularity of e.g., Dark Souls or the various roguelikes.
A popular, recent example here on the codex is Kingdom Come: Deliverance which has limited saving(consumable, save on resting in a bed, and save on exit.) More often than not if you make a shit choice you'll end up living with it because it's more convenient than having to go back to your last save which may have been very long ago, and humans tend to take the path of least resistance.

All of the Goldbox-era draining powers of enemies are no longer feasible with player psychology; they will simply trigger a reload.
"wtf why are players using the cheats we gave them?!"

Take a dialogue that goes:

"I offer lore that is the start of an interesting side quest."
1. [Persuasion 60%] As a fellow knowledge-seeker, I would love to hear it.
2. [Intimidate 20%] Tell me or die!
3. So what.
Totally worthless. No player will take #2 (as its odds are lower); if his stats are such that the odds are flipped, then he will take #2 rather than #1, of course. And no player will take #3. Furthermore, there is a 40% chance that the player will reload -- if he takes #1 and fails the check.

(In fact, AOD suggests that even if you replace these rolls with threshold checks, players will go berserk about their inability to get this sidequest without foreknowledge of the necessary thresholds.)
Maybe the player character shouldn't have powers of foresight and mindreading and therefore able to know exactly what their odds of passing said skill check are?
Unless, of course, the player is actually psychic or really good at reading people. Hey, maybe this could be actual features in an RPG character system or something. :roll:

Stop blaming players for bad design choices by game developers.
 
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