Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Thread

[imweasel]

Spoiler

Thank you very much for this high quality writing, Bioware.

 

[Parabalus]

Yeah, skill check balance is a big problem unfortunately. They seem to have packed a lot of extra content into failed skill checks, but you barely ever get to see that shit unless you try to faiil deliberately. Even the tutorial area is much more interesting if you fail literally the first skil check in the game.

Do you have any examples? All four skill checks I failed in the game ended up being simple "retry for 1" shit.

Spoiler

Thank you very much for this high quality writing, Bioware.

That's apparently backer content. I found that bit passably funny.



What do people dislike about the UI so much? I had no problems with it at all, probably wouldn't have finished the game if I did.

 

[TT1]

Did you notice the reference to Veteran Of The Psychic Wars (Blue Öyster Cult song) ?

 

[Luckmann]

It's all these things taken together that makes the overall experience rather poor, rather than just having some aspects that are bad. And I maintain that that's a real shame, because the game comes very close to truly being amazing.

What? I'm serious. The game needs a massive overhaul, but in each individual area the overhaul wouldn't necessarily be that big. Most serious issues are readily and easily identifiable, and would easily be fixed - but doing so would require a lot of time, effort, and money. And I fear that the game simply isn't going to get that, and I don't think that the developers would be interested in doing it, or listen to the criticism either.

Or maybe something in your post just flew over my head, I'm operating on drugs here, I'm not in the best of minds now.

Yeah, skill check balance is a big problem unfortunately. They seem to have packed a lot of extra content into failed skill checks, but you barely ever get to see that shit unless you try to faiil deliberately. Even the tutorial area is much more interesting if you fail literally the first skil check in the game.

The funny thing is that at some point, you cannot even fail deliberately. My character has 1 rank in Diplomacy, Deception and Intimidation each, without having placed any points there, but because he's a nano with 3 Edge in Intellect and an Intellect score of 18 (without even really trying - I also have 11 Might and Speed), there's multiple dialogue checks I simply pass without even trying. The window comes up and have 100%.

It would be funny if it wasn't so depressing.

 

[Lady_Error]

I'm operating on drugs here, I'm not in the best of minds now.

That explains a lot actually.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Yeah, skill check balance is a big problem unfortunately. They seem to have packed a lot of extra content into failed skill checks, but you barely ever get to see that shit unless you try to faiil deliberately. Even the tutorial area is much more interesting if you fail literally the first skil check in the game.

Do you have any examples? All four skill checks I failed in the game ended up being simple "retry for 1" shit

I saw that on stream by Rothfuss. Starts at 17:20, watch what happens when he fails the skill check. I thought that was really nice touch.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/125442124

For those who don't want to watch.

Spoiler

His PC cuts his finger on the sharp edge of the bowl, blood mixes with the water, and the light filling the room has a distinct shade of red instead of white you get when you win the skill check.

 

[adddeed]

Planescape: Torment isn't perfect. It could have been much, much better in certain aspects, from gameplay to stylistical choices (like Lady Error mentioned, the horrible portraits).

1. The shitty wheel-based commands.
2. The downright awful combat. "You are not mean to fight" my ass, if fights weren't important then they should have got rid of them altogether.
3. The aforementioned 3D rendered character portraits, not to mention the character & monster art found in the in-game's bestiary.
4. And just like Numenera, cut down on the amount of pointless prose and dialogue, though Planescape was admittedy much better in this regard.

But yeah, the game isn't perfect, it's just a very good game that stands out for its setting and writing.

Woud you bozos stop complaining about the combat? I played the game as a pure fighter with low INT and WIS and the game was very very enjoyable, combat included.

 

[FeelTheRads]

The butthurt must be truly strong that pointing out anything that was less than stellar in PST is perceived as some sort of heresy.

Case in point, the 3D rendered character portraits in PST aren't that great either. And lots of stuff had to be cut too. Yes, it's probably still the best RPG, but your retarded fanboyism is the reason why you cannot enjoy anything else lately.

Yeah, yeah, the old "shitty thing in PST excuses shitty thing in TTON".

Guess what, retard:

1. It doesn't. Morons can't understand that sequels, spiritual or not are not meant to reproduce everything including the bad parts.
2. You fail to understand that the good parts of TTON don't even dream of touching the good parts of PST and TTON also doesn't have enough good parts to excuse the shitty ones.

 

[Repulsive]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/272270/discussions/0/133258593395684693/?ctp=3#c133258593398297039 RPG Codex thumbing up all the negative reviews

 

[ga♥]

Please, ppl who are bitching about the Mortuary in PST should just go to another forum.

Back to TTON. The game has some BIG issues...Anyway, be honest, who would play a sequel of this? I know I would and I am not totally sure about how to feel about this.

 

[Roguey]

Did you notice the reference to Veteran Of The Psychic Wars (Blue Öyster Cult song) ?

Interesting that inXile would reference a song that was featured prominently in the shitlord Heavy Metal movie.

 

[ga♥]

Planescape: Torment isn't perfect. It could have been much, much better in certain aspects, from gameplay to stylistical choices (like Lady Error mentioned, the horrible portraits).

1. The shitty wheel-based commands.
2. The downright awful combat. "You are not mean to fight" my ass, if fights weren't important then they should have got rid of them altogether.
3. The aforementioned 3D rendered character portraits, not to mention the character & monster art found in the in-game's bestiary.
4. And just like Numenera, cut down on the amount of pointless prose and dialogue, though Planescape was admittedy much better in this regard.

But yeah, the game isn't perfect, it's just a very good game that stands out for its setting and writing.

Woud you bozos stop complaining about the combat? I played the game as a pure fighter with low INT and WIS and the game was very very enjoyable, combat included.

Same, my first playthough ever (2000?). And I loved it.

 

[Lacrymas]

We are basically the root of all evil in the RPG world, it's funny how often the Codex gets blamed for everything. I think they blamed us for SoD's debacle, too?

 

[ga♥]

Did you notice the reference to Veteran Of The Psychic Wars (Blue Öyster Cult song) ?

I love the band. Doubt is a reference though.

 

[Lurker King]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/272270/discussions/0/133258593395684693/?ctp=3#c133258593398297039 RPG Codex thumbing up all the negative reviews

I wouldn't be surprised if RPG Codex members are really the ones doing it. There was a huge thread on this forum where they whined ho InXile canceled interview with their guy, and they have been attacking this game unceasingly since the beginning, even more so since the console versions were announced... They even harrased their ex members that are now InXile employees.

"I didn't do nuffin!"

 

[Lady_Error]

1. It doesn't. Moron's can't understand that sequels, spiritual or not are not meant to reproduce everything including the bad parts.

Nobody claimed that.

2. You fail to understand that the good parts of TTON don't even dream of touching the good parts of PST and TTON also doesn't have enough good parts to excuse the shitty ones.

Nobody claimed that either.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/272270/discussions/0/133258593395684693/?ctp=3#c133258593398297039 RPG Codex thumbing up all the negative reviews

It seems according to the average Steamtard and random IGN readers the Codex is both a tiny, irrelevant collection of bitter basement dwellers... and a large, motivated army ready to overwhelm voting systems and ruin otherwise awesome games like SoD and TTON through sheer force of numbers

Good job men

 

[FeelTheRads]

Nobody claimed that either.

Yes, you did. The entire point of this retarded "but PST had shitty x too" is to somehow tell us that TTON is great even if it has shitty things. Well, no, it's not great at all.

 

[Roguey]

I love the band. Doubt is a reference though.

Maaaaaaaybe

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...h-talking-numenera.103521/page-3#post-4291201

Roguey: Question for Chris: Are you going to figure out a way to include an 80s song in ToN?

I have not tried, but if the song is appropriate, fire away with a suggestion ...although I think I may have answered this in the podcast, strangely enough.

Props given if this is in fact the case, whether he did it, or someone else was inspired to do it.

Oh wait never mind, it was a McComb thing.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...go-to-new-thread.102141/page-117#post-4778674

CM: "Probably the Castoffs' Labyrinth. Its a shared psychic mindspace essentially constructed in your mind and it's where you go when you die if you haven't died altogether. You are essentially exploring it and then rebuilding aspects of yourself based on what you find there. I've always been really into that kind of thing. That was a lot of fun. I think my interest in this was shaped extensively by Blue Oyster Cults song "Veteran of the Psychic Wars".

ES: Oh nice! I love Blue Oyster Cult myself!

CM - There is a whole area in the game based on that song. It is called the Fifth Eye.

Props withdrawn.

 

[Luckmann]

The butthurt must be truly strong that pointing out anything that was less than stellar in PST is perceived as some sort of heresy.

Case in point, the 3D rendered character portraits in PST aren't that great either. And lots of stuff had to be cut too. Yes, it's probably still the best RPG, but your retarded fanboyism is the reason why you cannot enjoy anything else lately.

Yeah, yeah, the old "shitty thing in PST excuses shitty thing in TTON".

Guess what, retard:

1. It doesn't. Morons can't understand that sequels, spiritual or not are not meant to reproduce everything including the bad parts.
2. You fail to understand that the good parts of TTON don't even dream of touching the good parts of PST and TTON also doesn't have enough good parts to excuse the shitty ones.

Yeah, it's infuriating that so many fangirls and apologists are using things like "Planescape also had bad combat!" and "PST also had lop-sided dialogue choices!" as it's somehow a viable defense of Tides of Numenera, that Torment, for all the amazing that it was, still had flaws. Flaws that have been recognized and harped on for decades. If anything, it makes the fact that Tides of Numenera has these issues all the more unforgivable, because with Torment as the spiritual predecessor, they should've known full well not to repeat these errors in Tides of Numenera as a spiritual sequel. Also, Torment combat never was this bad, nor the interactions this consistently lopsided. There's many reasons for that, but it's nontheless true.

Planescape: Torment isn't perfect. It could have been much, much better in certain aspects, from gameplay to stylistical choices (like Lady Error mentioned, the horrible portraits).

1. The shitty wheel-based commands.
2. The downright awful combat. "You are not mean to fight" my ass, if fights weren't important then they should have got rid of them altogether.
3. The aforementioned 3D rendered character portraits, not to mention the character & monster art found in the in-game's bestiary.
4. And just like Numenera, cut down on the amount of pointless prose and dialogue, though Planescape was admittedy much better in this regard.

But yeah, the game isn't perfect, it's just a very good game that stands out for its setting and writing.

Woud you bozos stop complaining about the combat? I played the game as a pure fighter with low INT and WIS and the game was very very enjoyable, combat included.

In Torment or Tides of Numenera?

 

[Lurker King]

God damn it, this game is terrible... how could the screw it up so badly?

"But muh precious writing! Don't you love my fantastic walls of text and my Bioware characters?"

People want gameplay, motherfuckers. Do you have it? Ask "Banner Saga" developers if players cared about their stories.

 

[bataille]

I haven't played much of the game yet, but the most perplexing thing I'd encountered in this game was that "Welcome to our strange and alien theme park, traveller" attitude the writers apparently employed in their work. When I came up to the eсhafaud where a man was being executed, I asked a watcher what was going on. And what did he answer? Without hesitation he started describing *what their method of execution was*.
To illustrate: imagine if this was middle ages. You stumbled into an execution square and asked what was going on. Then, instead of telling you who was being executed or why (real people would assume you know what a beheading is), it would unfold like this, numenera-style:
- Hey, berk, what is going on here?
- The man is being hanged by his neck. Hanging by neck is when a person is dragged to the gallows. Then a special rope called 'noose' is used on the poor sod. Then they open the hatch below him, and the man drops down. His neck snaps. Otherwise, he chokes and dies in 5 minutes. What a horrible tragedy.

This is exactly how the people watching the execution in this game described it to me. Absurd? Yes. But not when you are a visitor in a theme park. Is it bad? Not necessarily. But I'd rather make assumptions about the process and fiil in the blanks than read something this inauthentic.
Bonus points for the fact that the different watchers reacted to my question the same way and used similar lexis. At least two or three of them instantly started describing the technical aspect and used the word 'flesh' to describe the meaty, ropey offal that the victim's words turned into.
Seems like a small thing, but it was like a wake up call: "Hey, you naive fuck, this is not a narrative that you're supposed to keep up with to follow, it's the one that drags you along with it, making sure you're not lost, cold, hungry or confused."

It upset me a great deal.

 

[TT1]

Did you notice the reference to Veteran Of The Psychic Wars (Blue Öyster Cult song) ?

I love the band. Doubt is a reference though.

Oh, yes it is.

ES: And in the same vein, what is the favorite aspect of the game itself?

CM: "Probably the Castoffs' Labyrinth. Its a shared psychic mindspace essentially constructed in your mind and it's where you go when you die if you haven't died altogether. You are essentially exploring it and then rebuilding aspects of yourself based on what you find there. I've always been really into that kind of thing. That was a lot of fun. I think my interest in this was shaped extensively by Blue Oyster Cults song "Veteran of the Psychic Wars".

ES: Oh nice! I love Blue Oyster Cult myself!

CM - There is a whole area in the game based on that song. It is called the Fifth Eye.

 

[DeepOcean]

Planescape: Torment isn't perfect. It could have been much, much better in certain aspects, from gameplay to stylistical choices (like Lady Error mentioned, the horrible portraits).

1. The shitty wheel-based commands.
2. The downright awful combat. "You are not mean to fight" my ass, if fights weren't important then they should have got rid of them altogether.
3. The aforementioned 3D rendered character portraits, not to mention the character & monster art found in the in-game's bestiary.
4. And just like Numenera, cut down on the amount of pointless prose and dialogue, though Planescape was admittedy much better in this regard.

But yeah, the game isn't perfect, it's just a very good game that stands out for its setting and writing.

One day you gone on an art gallery to see some sculptures, he found an art critic talking with some artist, curious, he approached the men to hear what they were talking about:
Critic: "The original sculpture is outdated indeed, your work is splendid on bringing David of Michelangelo to the modern times." Both men seem to be talking about a nearby tall sculpture that is covered by a blue plastic sheet.
Critic: "I will recommend your work and make a great review about it. People need to know that the old artists had their flaws too, those old sculptures aren't perfect, you can't live on nostalgia. Good work, you are a very good artist, your art isn't perfect however but very good, only a little more and you will be a master."
The critic and the artist are too busy talking with each other and leave without noticing you approaching.
You can't control your curiosity, what this sculpture they are talking so much about look like.
You decide to remove to the blue plastic sheet that is covering the statue and see it on its glory:

Spoiler

Prosper

Then you learned to never trust what people say anymore.

 

[an Administrator]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/272270/discussions/0/133258593395684693/?ctp=3#c133258593398297039 RPG Codex thumbing up all the negative reviews

I did my part