Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Thread

[Zorba the Hutt]

Whew, good thing I remembered to sign in on my alt.

BTW, re Inifere, while it's pretty lame to describe your own stuff, there's something about the dream interpretation sequence that I don't think people will ever really notice because of how the effort/edge system worked out, so I figured I'd share it

Do you have a twitter alt too?

 

[Luckmann]

Or maybe you should get off those drugs if you meant the opposite.

Or, it's more likely that I simply wrote can't when I meant can.

For which I apologize. Shit happens, especially during sleep deprivation.

And again, just ignore that some quests and the C&C in them are excellent too.

Omit is not the same as ignore. I don't have to address every single atom of every single post you make. Only you believe yourself that important. But since you insist, I've yet to see any meaningful C&C or excellent quests. There's some quests that aren't bad, but again, I've consistently stated that I find the writing to be extremely uneven. You seem to be under the impression that I detest every single part of the game, when nothing could be further from the truth. But, again, that would require you to pay attention - but we already know that you've got issues with that. Well, either that, or you still haven't played the game.

 

[Excidium II]

moon logic

muh evidence

I dunno, I have to agree with Roxor here. It's fairly obvious who did it, just listening to the conversations and studying the characters. That being said, no, there are no hard evidence, but that's actually a good thing, I think, because in quests of this type, I think that it's often far too easy to work your way to the hard evidence and then just make the accusation, presto, done. And that's extremely boring. I think that that quest is actually fairly well-written, but lacks an emphasis on clarifying that you don't have any hard evidence, but that hard evidence isn't necessary in this case, because we're operating on feudal assumptions in what amounts to a criminal underworld context, so what you say, your interpretation, is what matters, not whether you've got DNA evidence or not.

But I absolutely think that the correct answer is fairly evident, partly because the other two are "too obvious", and are very straight-forward in their dodgy dishonesty, and very honest with the fact that they're shitty people. Moon logic? Maybe. You certainly cannot reduce this to pure logic, but with some narrative/game familiarity and provided you can read characters and social contexts (also known as not being a raging autist), it's fairly evident who the killer is, once you've exhausted all options. It would've been a far more interesting plot-twist if one of the more obvious bad guys turned out to actually be the bad guy. We've reached a level of post-post-irony in the age of cultural hipsterism where it's practically impossible to expect anyone but the not-villain to be villainous.

I would've had her run off if you actually leave the Dendra O'Hur to ask Fulsom if the alibi of the cult leader is actually legit (that he spent time with Fulsom), auto-pinning the blame on her, concluding the quest, but if you actually keep digging or when you catch up with her, reveal that it was one of the other two actual-assholes, possibly for completely unrelated reasons. Or something along those lines. I think that the quest as-is is too predictable and one-dimensional, especially as a quest connected to a would-be major arch/confrontation that comes later (which is tragically mishandled as well, but that's a separate issue).

Maybe they just phased out reading the banal shit boring walls of text and missed it

 

[MRY]

Whew, good thing I remembered to sign in on my alt.

BTW, re Inifere, while it's pretty lame to describe your own stuff, there's something about the dream interpretation sequence that I don't think people will ever really notice because of how the effort/edge system worked out, so I figured I'd share it

Do you have a twitter alt too?

#codexstrikesagain

The brigading never stops.

 

[DeepOcean]

A fighter TNO gets the least class exclusive dialogue (pretty much none), but in return, he is the strongest. Especially if you're evil - you can easily solo the entire game slaughtering everyone in your path as a fighter TNO, and when I say everyone I do recommend you include lots of innocents in your kill list. It lets you get the Brimstone Hammer (from the Lady's Maze) early on and if you murder enough people, you can get the amazing Butcherer of Innocents from Coaxmetal (a fast +2 axe that heals you on every hit) which becomes available for sale only for an evil fighter TNO after you murder enough innocents. Isn't it just great how the game naturally rewards you for mindless killing by giving you better tools for mindless killing?

How did I fucking miss this?

 

[DeepOcean]

So what's the consensus?

Consensus:
https://af.gog.com/game/planescape_torment?as=1649904300
Cheaper, better writing, better production values, better quests, better reactivity and fewer bugs. Greatest advantage of all, you won't give money to Brain Fargo.

 

[existential_vacuum]

Before we get a consensus, we must first settle the fundamental issue: What is a true RPG, really?

Why should we? We can get consensuses from each and everyone. Because: What does one consensus matter?

 

[vortex]

Compared to this, PS:T combat was pure tactical real-time-with-pause bliss.

It bears repeating.
From now on let every spiritual succesor to Torment have pure tactical real-time-with-pause gameplay.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

A fighter TNO gets the least class exclusive dialogue (pretty much none), but in return, he is the strongest. Especially if you're evil - you can easily solo the entire game slaughtering everyone in your path as a fighter TNO, and when I say everyone I do recommend you include lots of innocents in your kill list. It lets you get the Brimstone Hammer (from the Lady's Maze) early on and if you murder enough people, you can get the amazing Butcherer of Innocents from Coaxmetal (a fast +2 axe that heals you on every hit) which becomes available for sale only for an evil fighter TNO after you murder enough innocents. Isn't it just great how the game naturally rewards you for mindless killing by giving you better tools for mindless killing?

How did I fucking miss this?

Out of curiosity, how many of you who think the game is an absolute snoozefest are also playing nanos?

 

[Popiel]

Out of curiosity, how many of you who think the game is an absolute snoozefest are also playing nanos?

Well, I do.

 

[Excidium II]

A fighter TNO gets the least class exclusive dialogue (pretty much none), but in return, he is the strongest. Especially if you're evil - you can easily solo the entire game slaughtering everyone in your path as a fighter TNO, and when I say everyone I do recommend you include lots of innocents in your kill list. It lets you get the Brimstone Hammer (from the Lady's Maze) early on and if you murder enough people, you can get the amazing Butcherer of Innocents from Coaxmetal (a fast +2 axe that heals you on every hit) which becomes available for sale only for an evil fighter TNO after you murder enough innocents. Isn't it just great how the game naturally rewards you for mindless killing by giving you better tools for mindless killing?

How did I fucking miss this?

Out of curiosity, how many of you who think the game is an absolute snoozefest are also playing nanos?

What are you implying

 

[an Administrator]

Would be?

Shhh, you're spoiling it for someone.

(Clumsy phrasing on my part. Should've said something like "the quest to find the Mask of Prosper is a perfect fit for this game.")

I bet most players who are not familiar with Codex took the blob and Mask of Prosper as parts of the game's "deep lore"

 

[existential_vacuum]

existential_vacuum Sigh. That UI is frustrating, especially because I remember the artists explaining that a big part of what took them a long time as designing UIs for different resolutions. Hopefully a bugfix will resolve.

The saddest thing is I honestly can't understand, what they were trying to achieve with such UI (well, I guess it is for the CONSOLE CROWD). PoE's UI was generic and simple, yet solid and functional at least.

MOAR UI GORE

This one is a pain, because you can't click "show more" and have to scroll up and down several times for it to disappear. Or you can just click through dialog, but when such shit occurs without any responses, well, you gonna scroll.

EVEN MOAR UI GORE

 

[Lacrymas]

That second picture, the fuck?

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Out of curiosity, how many of you who think the game is an absolute snoozefest are also playing nanos?

What are you implying

I don't know, it's just that this post got me wondering:

Seeing how there are many hundreds of intellect checks with interesting outcomes for failures, maybe playing as a warrior is the way to go this time around?
It's like the developers passively-aggressively renounce PST with its 'play the mage fagit' shtick while pretending like it's the same way in numenera LMAO. "Yes, we have the same WISDOM & INTELLIGENCE thing going on in our spiritual successor! Enjoy your mages, good sir! Thanks, and fuck you!"

There's so much more int and int-related checks, it must really be an absolute fucking snoozefest if you're just blazing past everything. I rolled Jack and the game has serious issues, but it doesn't feel like visual novel with zero gameplay. So maybe playing a dumbass is the way to go this time.

 

[Excidium II]

interesting theory.

 

[an Administrator]

MRY

Spoiler

Did you write that Mere where there is some king who is suffering from a disease?

 

[Morkar Left]

The intro is nonexistant. You start directly with a wall of text in your face with a rather uncomfortable start. Personally, I would have preferred a small introduction to the world (It's the ninth world, everything we knew is faded away etc.). I saw the starting room already in some preview vid and thought it might be an interesting room with forgotten technology to explore. Unfortunately I feel it was wasted for the tutorial. And I had to do the tutorial again because it hang up in the first combat scene. Not a good start.

I'm 6 hours in now. And... the game manages to captivate my interest. I like the world. It's weird but still has familiar elements (unlike Planescape which is only straight up weird) and besides the Planescape/Time Machine/Cloud Atlas feel I get lots of Farscape vibes, too. A good setting for Torment-like gameplay but still allows some lighthearted and adventury stuff, too. Artstyle could have been maybe a bit less Steampunk/Torment-like style and more alien/tech-like with medieval stuff on top and with more consistency.

Quests are interesting, there are some small riddles (but I didn't really get the clock riddle...) and all in all it feels more like an adventure without drifting away too much in CYOA-style territory like Age of Decadence. There are multiple choices / ways to do stuff. Chars and npcs are interesting. It's really text-heavy which means you have to be in the proper mood and you have to be willing to learn / be interested about the setting to play the game. Playing it when tired is guaranteed to let you miss stuff. Otherwise I can't say I'm intrigued on a philosophical level so far.

The plot so far seems really predictable. It's not a bad thing but I think they could have done a better job by better hiding who/what you are.

Spoiler

The player is the god and not just a former vessel of it?

. And with PoE having a similar situation I can say its novelty really wears thin by now.

The mind-reading ability is helpful and you can actively call people out from time to time. But it's more rarely than common. But this ability shouldn't be a must-have which would be the case otherwise. It's nice that companions can help you with skill-checks. It provides real impact of there presence instead of just being additional conversation options and combat meat-shields. I can't freely choose to engage in combat / attack random people. Haven't tried if stealing/sneaking/robbing is possible directly from the engine but I guess not. That puts it more in adventure game territory than in an isometric rpg where you can more freely interact with the game world outside of walls of text.

The rules system is serviceable and kind of right for such a game. And hey, finally I can use swords and even rapiers in Torment (that's important). But the pool mechanic puts everything on the easy side so far. Especially with a full party. Maybe reduce the pool, at least for party members, to half of the available points. I'm a bit butthurt that there aren't difficulty settings available. I haven't used ciphers so far but I guess it will make everything even more easy.

Besides the mentioned restart of the tutorial and some occasional sound failures (sound gets mood for several seconds and then comes back) I've noticed no bugs so far. But I guess losing saves is a real possibility from what I read on the net. Save often in different slots.

I just hope the cut content doesn't affect the game (much). Plus I'm a bit buffled that the game took so long to make. Overall I really enjoy the game so far. It's a pleasant surprise. I really want to play further even against my better judgement to wait an additional year for patches and play Original Sin instead (which rocks in an oldschool rpg way). Ahh, damn it, I will play this one a bit further at least.

 

[Excidium II]

pleb

 

[Sacred82]

ITT people argue that the pre-written arguments they pick should be phrased more like something that makes them feel smart.

Personally, I don't give a fuck. They could just have written [Persuasion] and it would have been ok.

 

[tormund]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/272270/discussions/0/133258593395684693/?ctp=3#c133258593398297039 RPG Codex thumbing up all the negative reviews

It seems according to the average Steamtard and random IGN readers the Codex is both a tiny, irrelevant collection of bitter basement dwellers... and a large, motivated army ready to overwhelm voting systems and ruin otherwise awesome games like SoD and TTON through sheer force of numbers

Good job men

Makes me wonder if there was a starting point for that "RPG Codex did it" meme, or is it just usual mechanism with finding convenient bogeyman to blame.
That GAF thread about cut KS content that linked to Codex also had locals writing how RPG Codex regularly "bombs reviews".

 

[Excidium II]

Well nobody told me we were doing that. Went ahead and upboated the negative reviews.

 

[Morkar Left]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/272270/discussions/0/133258593395684693/?ctp=3#c133258593398297039 RPG Codex thumbing up all the negative reviews

It seems according to the average Steamtard and random IGN readers the Codex is both a tiny, irrelevant collection of bitter basement dwellers... and a large, motivated army ready to overwhelm voting systems and ruin otherwise awesome games like SoD and TTON through sheer force of numbers

Good job men

Makes me wonder if there was a starting point for that "RPG Codex did it" meme, or is it just usual mechanism with finding convenient bogeyman to blame.
That GAF thread about cut KS content that linked to Codex also had locals writing how RPG Codex regularly "bombs reviews".

Nah, it's just that the codex can't give positive ratings to a game anymore because of its circle-jerk bashing of games. It's just to tempting for the people here.
The only reason older games are still seen in a better light nowadyas is because they got praised highly in the past on this site. Otherwise people here would bashing these games, too. People here completely lost any sense of perspective what games can realistically deliver or delivered in the past.

 

[Daedalos]

 

[Excidium II]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/272270/discussions/0/133258593395684693/?ctp=3#c133258593398297039 RPG Codex thumbing up all the negative reviews

It seems according to the average Steamtard and random IGN readers the Codex is both a tiny, irrelevant collection of bitter basement dwellers... and a large, motivated army ready to overwhelm voting systems and ruin otherwise awesome games like SoD and TTON through sheer force of numbers

Good job men

Makes me wonder if there was a starting point for that "RPG Codex did it" meme, or is it just usual mechanism with finding convenient bogeyman to blame.
That GAF thread about cut KS content that linked to Codex also had locals writing how RPG Codex regularly "bombs reviews".

Nah, it's just that the codex can't give positive ratings to a game anymore because of its circle-jerk bashing of games. It's just to tempting for the people here.
The only reason older games are still seen in a better light nowadyas is because they got praised highly in the past on this site. Otherwise people here would bashing these games, too. People here completely lost any sense of perspective what games can realistically deliver or delivered in the past.

Must b cool having absolutely no standards. Enjoy your realistically delivered shit