Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Thread

[Jarpie]

I don't think we will see any Director's Cut or further content for this. With sales that high, why even bother? It's not really economically prudent.

Depends on how much effort they put into it... after a launch this bad, a re-release isn't such a bad idea.

Fix bugs, make some small changes and call it "PC-exclusive Director's Cut" (so you don't need Techland & wasting money on console certification, retail version manufacturing & distribution). Of course, if it's a honest upgrade or a cash grab all depends on what they change.

You think they have humility to admit that they fucked up the development and wasted the backers money? I'd say no. I don't think there's any chance of them actually putting back stuff except maybe the companions, which we know were cut out, but actually restoring cut content we don't know about? Nah.

 

[vivec]

Is the game even salvageable though? Band-aid fixes won't cut it.

It totally is. But requires a crucial change in the story.

Also, requires harder encounters, more timed quests and less resources overall.

 

[Lacrymas]

Salvageable? Is it? I would say yes. I maintain that it's close to being great, but that all the issues comes together for an utterly terrible whole. But that's only in a technical sense. I don't think it's financially defensible for someone looking to make money, and I think it's precisely the misunderstanding that this game had to make money on release/post-release that hamstrung it, and now inXile is in such a position in which it's simply a necessity.

I just don't think it's going to happen. It would involve inXile essentially continuing full development, and actually making in-depth changes even to the established narrative and the flow of the game. It would be no small feat and I've never seen that done. I doubt inXile is going to be the first.

My question was more regarding the realistic possibility of them salvaging it. It's obvious that if they pour months into full development it CAN happen, but will they? The realistic answer is no.

 

[ArchAngel]

Is the game even salvageable though? Band-aid fixes won't cut it.

Everything's salvageable, given enough dedication and resources.

• Go over the text and cut about the Old Testament's worth of description, unnecessary verbiage, pointless sidequests, and vanity NPCs, and adjust the rest so it reads like actual dialogue rather than exposition dressed up as dialogue
• Fix the most glaring ugliness in the maps (badly-fitting textures, polygons showing, ugly/out-of-place designs), give them proper lighting, and re-render them
• Replace the audio design with something that doesn't sound utterly generic
• Redesign the UI
• Redesign the encounters so they have about 1/4 the number of participants so turns don't last forever; also speed up the way they run in general
• Redesign some core skills so they're not STUPIDLY exploitable (e.g. Hide lets you bypass just about all combat, even if you didn't invest a single point in Speed or Stealth; as it is it's a blessing because combat is so awful)
• Redesign and rebalance all game mechanics so you'd at least need to make a little effort to craft a party that lets you pass all skill checks all the time
• Rewrite the ending, as it is the finale scene is Mass Effect 3 level derp
• Make some actual use of Mark Morgan's music, or tell him to get his ass in gear and compose something worth hearing because we know he can
• Fire all the artists, hire some who are actually able to paint, and redo all the art for the Meres, it's uniformly awful

Alternatively you could cut your losses and spend all that effort making a whole new game.

Or they could take what they got, improve it and make a game about adventures in Ninth World like couple of NPCs talk about. It would be a much better game considering the lesser skillset of people behind TToN.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

I don't remember games like Arcanum doing it either even though it's completely new and different setting.

Arcanum's setting was just your typical Tolkien fantasy + steam engine. Nothing new or innovative. You know there is a reason no one thinks about buying its IP

 

[Lacrymas]

I saw someone around here saying that Absurdian are interested in buying Arcanum's IP.

 

[bataille]

This is how to deal with backer NPCs properly. It seems to me it'd be a good idea to create similar scenarios for every ego that is big enough to donate a few thousands of dollars for a flattering self-insert.

Spoiler

 

[Turjan]

This is how to deal with backer NPCs properly. It seems to me it'd be a good idea to create similar scenarios for every ego that is big enough to donate a few thousands of dollars for a flattering self-insert.

Spoiler

Rhin's reaction: *gasp*

Even Tybir doesn't exactly approve of your action. Then again, he also thinks you're irresponsible because you take Rhin with you.

But honestly, the backer NPC's are mostly okay. This is not PoE.

 

[Luckmann]

This is how to deal with backer NPCs properly. It seems to me it'd be a good idea to create similar scenarios for every ego that is big enough to donate a few thousands of dollars for a flattering self-insert.

Spoiler

Rhin's reaction: *gasp*

Even Tybir doesn't exactly approve of your action. Then again, he also thinks you're irresponsible because you take Rhin with you.

But honestly, the backer NPC's are mostly okay. This is not PoE.

Yeah, I share the hate of backer NPC:s as a concept with a lot of people here, but as for how they were made in Tides of Numenera, they're actually not half bad. I actually didn't know that the monk and the alien sex-scientist were backer NPC:s until someone said it. They're mostly well-written, and actually work as generic NPC:s in the context of the game, which is pretty cool, honestly. I guess that someone took a page from PoE on how to not do backer NPC:s.

 

[bataille]

This is how to deal with backer NPCs properly. It seems to me it'd be a good idea to create similar scenarios for every ego that is big enough to donate a few thousands of dollars for a flattering self-insert.

Spoiler

Rhin's reaction: *gasp*

Even Tybir doesn't exactly approve of your action. Then again, he also thinks you're irresponsible because you take Rhin with you.

But honestly, the backer NPC's are mostly okay. This is not PoE.

Yeah, I agree that this guy didn't stand out in a bad way. That's mostly because the developers did they work to implement the backer's idea in a sensible way, not just copied megabytes of text and randomly sprinkled it all over the game like in Pillars. A painting based on the idea instead of a privilege to tag your game with a spraycan.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Is the game even salvageable though? Band-aid fixes won't cut it.

It totally is. But requires a crucial change in the story.

Also, requires harder encounters, more timed quests and less resources overall.

Really? Why have you suddenly pulled timed quests out your ass as if that's actually an important thing?

 

[AwesomeButton]

Everything's salvageable, given enough dedication and resources.

• Go over the text and cut about the Old Testament's worth of description, unnecessary verbiage, pointless sidequests, and vanity NPCs, and adjust the rest so it reads like actual dialogue rather than exposition dressed up as dialogue
• Fix the most glaring ugliness in the maps (badly-fitting textures, polygons showing, ugly/out-of-place designs), give them proper lighting, and re-render them
• Replace the audio design with something that doesn't sound utterly generic
• Redesign the UI
• Redesign the encounters so they have about 1/4 the number of participants so turns don't last forever; also speed up the way they run in general
• Redesign some core skills so they're not STUPIDLY exploitable (e.g. Hide lets you bypass just about all combat, even if you didn't invest a single point in Speed or Stealth; as it is it's a blessing because combat is so awful)
• Redesign and rebalance all game mechanics so you'd at least need to make a little effort to craft a party that lets you pass all skill checks all the time
• Rewrite the ending, as it is the finale scene is Mass Effect 3 level derp
• Make some actual use of Mark Morgan's music, or tell him to get his ass in gear and compose something worth hearing because we know he can
• Fire all the artists, hire some who are actually able to paint, and redo all the art for the Meres, it's uniformly awful

Alternatively you could cut your losses and spend all that effort making a whole new game.

I estimate this to another 3 years and $5 mil. Now, where to find it...?

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Nicer GUI, NPC portraits and all that VO!
Video from 2015.
Dammit I was so fucking hyped.. like a virginal teenage girl being introduced to Justin Bieber in the backstage.

What the fuck happened to those amazing portraits? And the UI...

I remember when I first saw this trailer, I was so hyped. Fuck you inXile, I hope they crash and burn

I can watch that today and still get hyped. That 3-minute trailer is more enjoyable and thought-provoking than the entire 20-hour game that came afterwards. I think I'd honestly rather rewatch that trailer 1200 times than to replay Tides of Numenera.

Were there any changes in dialogues and quest in the final version compared to the ones that are presented in the trailer?
That UI

 

[an Administrator]

TTON simply has one of the most boring ending locations in the history of game industry.

 

[Repulsive]

I wrote a Steam review.

Don't worry, I'll write one for the Codex also. Maybe a little longer than this one.

you have not an rpg then. go play cod

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

you have not an rpg then. go play cod

Holy cow, you only wrote 8 one syllable words and you managed to fuck that up!

 

[Hellion]

Were there any changes in dialogues and quest in the final version compared to the ones that are presented in the trailer?

I think that the dialogue option "You and your soldiers must pledge your allegiance to me [Persuasion]" after delivering the banner is absent from the game, will have to verify that but I'm pretty sure.

EDIT: LOL it's even worse than I remembered.

Spoiler

Granted, I resolved the "Maw" quest in a different way so that option's absent, but the rest...

 

[Darth Roxor]

The "I'll think about it" option is rich.

"Hmm, should I take the cash or not? Tyranny of choices!"

 

[Habbonovio]

I fail to understand the reason behind not showing the portraits of the people you are having a conversation with (on the UI), instead, they always show the shitty MC portrait.

Character models are horrible, it would be nice to have another visual reference more pleasant to the eye.

 

[Turjan]

By the way, if this is the PoE engine, why is the object interaction that clunky? It's really hard to interact with anything if you are close to it, and often enough, I have to move the characters back and forth to be able to do so. One part of the problem is surely that all characters move more or less as a unit, but still...

 

[Florian Gheorghe]

I fail to understand the reason behind not showing the portraits of the people you are having a conversation with (on the UI), instead, they always show the shitty MC portrait.

Character models are horrible, it would be nice to have another visual reference more pleasant to the eye.

I guess they got to many complains about the difference from Wasteland 2 portraits and the description and decided : fuck that , let them look at a horrible artwork of the main char for the rest of the game.

 

[felipepepe]

I fail to understand the reason behind not showing the portraits of the people you are having a conversation with (on the UI), instead, they always show the shitty MC portrait.

Portraits cost money, yo.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Maybe at some point they also realised that the portraits just doubled up for all the descriptive walls of text that talk about each person's frown and article of clothing in exhaustive detail, and it was easier to drop the portraits than re-write every dialogue intro

 

[GloomFrost]

I fail to understand the reason behind not showing the portraits of the people you are having a conversation with (on the UI), instead, they always show the shitty MC portrait.

Portraits cost money, yo.

Yep!! But some portraits were already made and they looked 100 times better like in that 2015 video. I still dont know which is worse though looking at a horrible MC portrait the entire game or what they did in Tyranny. (Shrugs)

 

[Habbonovio]

Yep!! But some portraits were already made and they looked 100 times better like in that 2015 video. I still dont know which is worse though looking at a horrible MC portrait the entire game or what they did in Tyranny. (Shrugs)

Let me answer for you:

"What they did in Tyranny".

I prefere to look at a variety of mediocre portraits than to look at an awful character model and the same mediocre portrait ad infinitum.